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Manager Loyalty in Football

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In light of some recent managerial moves and talks.

Sarri to Juventus

Mourinho to Spurs

Poch's loyalty to Espanyol. 

To what extent does a manager need to respect the fans of a previous club? And what degree of loyalty do they owe?

Not solely in the situations mentioned...

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1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

I agree on that "Judas" point because there are many indicatives as to why this is the case aside from his own words which are testament to how he thinks football.

Josep Maria Bartomeu (FC Barcelona President) had dinner with Mauricio Pochettino one week after then then Barça coach Luis Enrique informed the board of the club that he would be stepping down at the end of that campaign. That dinner meeting in Barcelona was all about the possibility of Pochettino taking over at the start of the following campaign and with a project at his disposal, which is something all coaches want plus the added factor of going to one of the biggest football clubs on the planet with untold resources. He said no! He said he couldn't betray his RCD Espanyol past which is massive and is a part of him after spending so many years at that club. He later on went onto deny it was about the possibility of becoming Barcelona coach as did Bartomeu but everyone knows that was exactly what it was all about.

He has said various times that he could never coach either Barcelona or Arsenal and as much as I would like it not to be true, the football side of me does indeed want it to be like that... I want there to still remain real football people with ethics based around the care for how fans feel. 

 

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For someone who played and supported the club, I'd say pretty high. For everyone else, not so much.

Steven Gerrard being the manager of Everton for example.

A job is a job and bills need paid.

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Mourinho is just a whore, he would work anywhere.

There is no loyalty anymore due to the money available in football now. 

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1 hour ago, Panna King said:

George Graham to Spurs

I’ll write something extensive later on with this important subject. But for now George Graham is a great example if one didn’t know much about Graham then they’d think he was a total traitor seeing as he not only played for Arsenal and was also a terrace idol... He then went onto successfully coach them for many years.

Managing Spurs was a kick in the teeth but again, this without knowing much about him. Read his biographies and you won’t be so surprised at his pragmatism with a lack of any type of integrity.

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I don't think Spurs and Chelsea is really in that utter taboo category of rivalries is it? Juventus and Napoli I don't know enough about the dynamic there.

I think it's only a betrayal when you're talking about the Arsenal/Spurs, Liverpool/Everton, Celtic/Rangers type of rivalry.

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I think you're missing the biggest one. 

Conte coaching Inter. 

Conte is a Juve legend, played there, coached there, and now he's in charge of Inter. Now Juventus are trying to erase all of Conte from their history books, and are currently trying to take down his statue. 

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I think loyalty only applies to people who are seen as 'legends' amongst clubs. You wouldn't want to see Lampard manage another London club for example (besides West Ham).

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1 hour ago, Pyfish said:

I think loyalty only applies to people who are seen as 'legends' amongst clubs. You wouldn't want to see Lampard manage another London club for example (besides West Ham).

West Ham fans hated him though

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Ronald Koeman is the only coach to have played and coached PSV, Feyenoord and Ajax xD  so not sure what Loyalty he has apart from Barcelona.

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1 hour ago, Spike said:

I hold it a different standard. Mourinho was sacked TWICE by Chelsea, why should he hold loyalty to a club that fired him? 

Because it's about the fans. Johan Cruyff was sacked by Josep Lluis Núñez and I can guarantee you he would never have coached Real Madrid..

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Just now, SirBalon said:

Because it's about the fans. Johan Cruyff was sacked by Josep Lluis Núñez and I can guarantee you he would never have coached Real Madrid..

Not everyone is Cryuff nor should anyone be held to someone else’s standard. People can do as they please, it isn’t conditional on the abstract and often arbitrary definitions of loyalty. Good for Cryuff, he stuck to his ideals and he wouldn’t be Cryuff if he didn’t do so, but he is dead so he is irrelevant to this discussion. Besides, as I said it is different standard every instance, he played for Ajax and Feyeenord, so loyalty is ‘t so black and white.

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1 hour ago, Spike said:

I hold it a different standard. Mourinho was sacked TWICE by Chelsea, why should he hold loyalty to a club that fired him? 

And it's not like he grew up as a Chelsea fan.

He's said it numerous times while working as a pundit since getting sacked from United - he misses (well, missed) management a lot & if the right club made the right offer, he'd be interested. In his case, we've got a man who's said he's desperate to go back to work getting a job offer at a club that's had some issues this season - but still has a very strong squad and is still in the CL.

It's a good opportunity for him and he's said numerous times as a pundit, he's only a pundit until he gets a good opportunity. I don't see how anyone can blame him for taking that good opportunity.

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9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

And it's not like he grew up as a Chelsea fan.

He's said it numerous times while working as a pundit since getting sacked from United - he misses (well, missed) management a lot & if the right club made the right offer, he'd be interested. In his case, we've got a man who's said he's desperate to go back to work getting a job offer at a club that's had some issues this season - but still has a very strong squad and is still in the CL.

It's a good opportunity for him and he's said numerous times as a pundit, he's only a pundit until he gets a good opportunity. I don't see how anyone can blame him for taking that good opportunity.

I kind of agree from Mourinho's perspective on what you've just written. But according to Chelsea fans he said he would never coach them and as I said, football is about the fans. God only knows his (Mourinho) career's success is based quite substantially on using the fans to create a siege effect.

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Just now, SirBalon said:

I kind of agree from Mourinho's perspective on what you've just written. But according to Chelsea fans he said he would never coach them and as I said, football is about the fans. God only knows his (Mourinho) career's success is based quite substantially on using the fans to create a siege effect.

Football may have previously been about the fans although football is now about the money.

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1 minute ago, Rab said:

Football may have previously been about the fans although football is now about the money.

Without a doubt but there are still individuals who vocally seem to hold those old values and until now Pochettino is one of those and only time will tell if he honours his own words.

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38 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Because it's about the fans. Johan Cruyff was sacked by Josep Lluis Núñez and I can guarantee you he would never have coached Real Madrid..

Yes, because Madrid weren't so dumb to appoint this loser., or did he win a single European cup, as a manager?

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1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

I kind of agree from Mourinho's perspective on what you've just written. But according to Chelsea fans he said he would never coach them and as I said, football is about the fans. God only knows his (Mourinho) career's success is based quite substantially on using the fans to create a siege effect.

Creating the siege mentality is more media management and man management of the players - I don't think the fans really get on board until they see the players get on board.  But it's not just according to Chelsea fans that he said he'd never coach them - he did say that in 2015. Having said that, it was before he was sacked by Chelsea for a second time.

At the end of the day, Mourinho is only human. We know he likes living in London - he's never sold his home there. When you've got a job you like and find it fulfilling, it must be very shit to not have that job - you'd want to have a job like your old one again. I fully fucking understand that. And now he can get it without having to leave where he likes living.

I can understand if some Chelsea fans feel betrayed by him - he's going to another London club that's directly competing for a CL spot with them... and I suppose they're something of rivals (although I just learned that yesterday - do all of the London clubs hate each other? Granted, I can understand all of the London clubs hating Chelsea/Arsenal tbh - being the "big" clubs). But the human element to Mourinho's decision to take the Spurs job outweighs the fan consideration, imo.

It's a job he loves in a city he loves (or at least enjoys living in). If it were any career other than football, nobody would bat an eyelid at him taking a job he loves in a place he'd want to live. And yeah, I get that because it is football it does have that supporter element of tribalism and loyalty and passions running high. But he's still a person and it's still his professional career, so of course he's going to look at it from the perspective of someone taking a job.

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It depends on the person, the club, the reason, the relationship. It is different for Mourinho to coach Arsenal, than Ledley King. Barcelona and Real Madeid have conflicting political, philosophical, and socioeconomic ideals, so once again that is different to Juventus and Inter’s relationship, or Inter and Milan’s. One look at Mourinho and it is easy to tell he isn’t here for sentimentality but to challenge himself and win, so again that is different to someone like Pep Guardiola.

Tottenham have a great team, immense potential, and are in London, so I don’t see why they wouldn’t be an attractive option.It isn’t like Chelsea or Tottenham have a violent relationship either, there isn’t going to a city wide riot like Turkish clubs, or Serbian clubs for that matter.

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A decent Scottish example would've been the possibility of Kenny Dalglish coaching Glasgow Rangers or Graeme Souness doing vice versa. Football had already become a business wile they were coaching and Dalglish himself won a league title with Blackburn with an early version of the Abramović effect.

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Chelsea has Arsenal and Tottenham as rivals only because QPR, Fulham, and Brentford don’t play in the PL.

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1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

A decent Scottish example would've been the possibility of Kenny Dalglish coaching Glasgow Rangers or Graeme Souness doing vice versa. Football had already become a business wile they were coaching and Dalglish himself won a league title with Blackburn with an early version of the Abramović effect.

Imo the Rangers-Celtic rivalry is a hell of a lot more heated than the Chelsea-Spurs rivalry. One's got political and religious tension intertwined within it. The other is two London clubs, which I guess might get political if Chelsea fans get all neo-Nazi with it (which I'm sure has happened).

But it's nowhere near the same sort of rivalry as the Old Firm, not even in the same solar system I'd say.

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5 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Yes, because Madrid weren't so dumb to appoint this loser., or did he win a single European cup, as a manager?

Can you elaborate on your single sentence which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and lacks the weight of coherence.

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Managing football teams is a profession, why should managers be more loyal to their former employers than anybody else is to theirs? @SirBalon loyalty isn't a one way route, fans are asking for their managers to be sacked if results aren't like expected, how comes you expect managers to feel loyalty towards them under this condition?

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4 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

A decent Scottish example would've been the possibility of Kenny Dalglish coaching Glasgow Rangers or Graeme Souness doing vice versa. Football had already become a business wile they were coaching and Dalglish himself won a league title with Blackburn with an early version of the Abramović effect.

I disagree, the Old Firm makes Chelsea v Tottenham look like a kindergarten rivalry. It just isn’t the same at all, yes thye are both rivalries but the degrees are different. 

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9 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Can you elaborate on your single sentence which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and lacks the weight of coherence.

Counter-attack with a bible-esque post!

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9 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

Managing football teams is a profession, why should managers be more loyal to their former employers than anybody else is to theirs? @SirBalon loyalty isn't a one way route, fans are asking for their managers to be sacked if results aren't like expected, how comes you expect managers to feel loyalty towards them under this condition?

Because football is about the fans and even in today's business orientated era the managers and players play to the tune of the fans. Boardrooms come and go and when Alfredo di Stéfano was made President of Honour for life at Real Madrid, Santiago Bernabéu had been dead for 30 years.

Now can you please elaborate on your first post to me and what the hell it meant?

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4 minutes ago, Berserker said:

Counter-attack with a bible-esque post!

I'm waiting for the error to be an even bigger one so I can attack like a fucking wild puma on heat leaping out of a tree onto the neck of a prat that's decided to shit nearby.

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