• Sign up free today!

    Join in on the discussion, prediction leagues and competitions today! Sign up takes no longer than 5 minutes.

football forum

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Outbreak

Recommended Posts

It's the fact that we got sympathy wank stories in the usual rags about Dom being sick, forensically breaking down how the family was coping with the situation, and at no point was this mentioned. 

And now that it's been revealed, they're saying it's obviously within the rules and at no point did they conceal it.

There are some times where things really are as simple as they seem. It's not a mark of deeper engagement with the problem to complicate everything, and infer nuance which isn't there.

That's how spin works when you're on the backfoot - you throw out some explanation or counter-story, no matter how tenuous, and you can count on plenty of well-meaning nuance-junkies rushing to take that sweet, sweet middle-ground. 

Edited by Inverted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

They had two choices, come clean which would have meant he would need to step down, or defend it and hope they can fudge and fog their way round some semi plausible explanation that buys them time... They have picked option 2 because right now in the face of questions they can't or won't answer it would just be another huge smack in the mouth on how they have gone about handling this since it began.. 

Just one poor decision after another.... 

 

5 minutes ago, Inverted said:

It's the fact that we got sympathy wank stories in the usual rags about Dom being sick, forensically breaking down how the family was coping with the situation, and at no point was this mentioned. 

And now that it's been revealed, they're saying it's obviously within the rules and at no point did they conceal it.

There some times where things really are as simple as they seem.

It's not a mark of deeper engagement with the problem to complicate everything, and infer nuance which isn't there.

Also begs the question that if it was fine at the time, why was it covered up...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think it's a massive own goal the Tories doubling down on this. Giving Cummings the boot would have been a loss but they risk turning this into a real scandal. There's no viable line of defence here and even if they manage to fend off the media you would expect Starmer and Labour to have a field day on this one. There isn't much that can penetrate the walls of the party political and Brexit divisions now but there will be plenty of pro-Johnson/Brexit people who have made massive personal sacrifices over the last few months and this will cut through to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Think it's a massive own goal the Tories doubling down on this. Giving Cummings the boot would have been a loss but they risk turning this into a real scandal. There's no viable line of defence here and even if they manage to fend off the media you would expect Starmer and Labour to have a field day on this one. There isn't much that can penetrate the walls of the party political and Brexit divisions now but there will be plenty of pro-Johnson/Brexit people who have made massive personal sacrifices over the last few months and this will cut through to them.

If no significant action is taken before Wednesday's PMQs, it could be quite entertaining. All of them have so far because of Starmer's calm yet cutting demeanour strikes right through the heart of Boris, Hancock and anyone else really.

Not only Starmer and Labour, there are several Tory MPs/back-benchers who can't stand Cummings either. There's going to be pressure from all over the shop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's also illustrative of the differences in political culture between different parts of the UK. Despite the SNP up here being in power for several terms with large majorities, they are still extremely wary of alienating voters - hence Calderwood being swiftly demoted when she had a similar scandal. They feel that public support can't be taken for granted even amongst their base. 

The Tories have learned the opposite lesson - any crisis can be survived because you can always keep a sufficient chunk of the electorate sufficiently stupefied or pliable. There's always a competing narrative, an alternative version of the facts which a decent chunk of people are gonna be happy to swallow, because it's in their interests to. 

They're still in power after all this time, so what harm is one more scandal realistically going to do? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Inverted said:

It's also illustrative of the differences in political culture between different parts of the UK. Despite the SNP up here being in power for several terms with large majorities, they are still extremely wary of alienating voters - hence Calderwood being swiftly demoted when she had a similar scandal. They feel that public support can't be taken for granted even amongst their base. 

The Tories have learned the opposite lesson - any crisis can be survived because you can always keep a sufficient chunk of the electorate sufficiently stupefied or pliable. There's always a competing narrative, an alternative version of the facts which a decent chunk of people are gonna be happy to swallow, because it's in their interests to. 

They're still in power after all this time, so what harm is one more scandal realistically going to do? 

Yeah, Tories seem to be rewarded by treating voters with utter contempt tbh. Why would they stop now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah, Tories seem to be rewarded by treating voters with utter contempt tbh. Why would they stop now?

At this rate the United Kingdom has basically developed a humiliation kink when it comes to its choice of government. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anything on those lines more likely to do with being 6 months into a 5 year tenure versus SNP having elections next year. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

If anything on those lines more likely to do with being 6 months into a 5 year tenure versus SNP having elections next year. 

 

Or maybe different political parties sincerely do have different ways of looking at social issues and different attitudes to government. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Or maybe different political parties sincerely do have different ways of looking at social issues and different attitudes to government. 

 

So your own first point that difference is about protecting perceptions of image was potentially bullshit according to yourself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

So your own first point that difference is about protecting perceptions of image was potentially bullshit according to yourself?

The point was that some parties are conscious of the expectations of the public even when not in the middle of an election period. I don't know if you consider a full year before an election to be an election period, but I can say reasonably surely that nobody in Scotland is thinking about next May at this moment. 

Some figures in politics think that trust, or legitimacy, is something to be maintained, not scrambled or bargained for in the few months before an election. In fact, even ignoring public perception entirely, some would go so far as to say that holding power - especially in a time of crisis in which thousands of lives ride on every decision - bears certain inherent responsibilities. And they behave accordingly, or resign or are removed. 

I don't know if that sounds trite or idealistic, but I can assure you that even though the UK government has discarded it, it's not such a radical notion. 

That's why I'm definitely not making Scotland out to be some wonderland because that notion is possibly still relevant up here. It's the norm, it exists in the cultures of most European countries. 

Edited by Inverted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's too windy to go on a decent walk this weekend so I thought I'd be bored but watching the Tories dig a hole that the majority of the straight thinking public, finally, won't follow them into is pretty great viewing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Inverted said:

The point was that some parties are conscious of the expectations of the public even when not in the middle of an election period. I don't know if you consider a full year before an election to be an election period, but I can say reasonably surely that nobody in Scotland is thinking about next May at this moment. 

Some figures in politics think that trust, or legitimacy, is something to be maintained, not scrambled or bargained for in the few months before an election. In fact, even ignoring public perception entirely, some would go so far as to say that holding power - especially in a time of crisis in which thousands of lives ride on every decision - bears certain inherent responsibilities. And they behave accordingly, or resign or are removed. 

I don't know if that sounds trite or idealistic, but I can assure you that even though the UK government has discarded it, it's not such a radical notion. 

That's why I'm definitely not making Scotland out to be some wonderland because that notion is possibly still relevant up here. It's the norm, it exists in the cultures of most European countries. 

Popping up in the commentariat analysis has routinely been what election pivots are going on for at least the last 6 months if not more. The public not actively thinking about who to vote for doesn't really matter. For a governing power this is a key moment to ensure you go into the door knocking stage in control of the topics and with positive perceptions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

20200523_184107.thumb.jpg.64a543da2ca4ce4b5735eef718ed218e.jpg

WILL OV DER PEEPULL

And yet.... 

Speaking to reporters outside his house, Dominic Cummings said he will not be reconsidering his position.
 
 
 
"Obviously not," he told journalists. 
 
 
 
"You're not going to consider resigning? The public are probably very angry," one of the reporters said. 
 
 
 
He replied: "You guys are probably as right about that as you were about Brexit - remember how right you all were about that?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Harvsky said:

Popping up in the commentariat analysis has routinely been what election pivots are going on for at least the last 6 months if not more. The public not actively thinking about who to vote for doesn't really matter. For a governing power this is a key moment to ensure you go into the door knocking stage in control of the topics and with positive perceptions.

Which is why I think Starmer is fairing well for Labour. Of course Tories and their behaviours/mixed messages give Labour pretty much open goals, but they'd be foolish not to try and score in those open goals. Obviously he's not the governing power but he wouldn't be an effective leader of the party if he was missing these opportunities. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

20200523_184107.thumb.jpg.64a543da2ca4ce4b5735eef718ed218e.jpg

WILL OV DER PEEPULL

52/48 split. Lovely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Stan said:

52/48 split. Lovely.

It isn't though, its 52/28 because 20% of voters stay at home. In this scenario, a referendum would return a result of 65%/35% in favour of Dominic Cummings to LEAVE his position. :coffee:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

It isn't though, its 52/28 because 20% of voters stay at home. In this scenario, a referendum would return a result of 65%/35% in favour of Dominic Cummings to LEAVE his position. :coffee:

Yeah that's what I meant.

52/28...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Johnson ducking all the flack... Taking a back seat while others take the bullets for him, How can anyone be happy with his leadership... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Bluebird Hewitt

I'm guessing this is the thing you were saying about the other day...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52784439

Quote

 

There are concerns people in Wales are still not able to book drive-through coronavirus tests due to not being able to access a UK website.

In England, Scotland and Northern Ireland members of the public are able to book tests online.

Despite it being announced last week that announced Wales would join the service, it is still unavailable.

The Welsh Government said an update would be provided as "soon as possible".

Critical workers are able to book tests by contacting testing centres directly.

But unions said the lack of testing was concerning for workers, especially those on zero-hour contracts or jobs where they were not entitled to company sick pay.

_112426928_testingportal.jpg

A Welsh Government spokesman said work was being done on access to the site at the moment.

"As soon as this work is finalised, daily test slot allocations will be available for critical workers," he said.

On Monday, the Welsh Government said critical workers and members of the public would be able to use the UK booking site for drive-through appointments "soon."

Home test kits are available to everyone across the UK, but availability depends on demand.

The decision to opt into the UK system meant ministers in Cardiff ditched plans to develop Wales' own online-booking system.

Gemma Powell, a supermarket worker from Bridgend, wanted a coronavirus test last week when she developed a dry cough.

"I couldn't order a home testing kit but I finally managed to get through to book an appointment at a drive through screening in Pencoed," she said.

"The system is making it so difficult to get a test.

"The number I phoned was the Abercynon helpline which I thought was the wrong number - I phoned this for the correct number for Bridgend area but it turned out to be for my area.

"If I hadn't tried this number I would still be without a test appointment.

"The information people need is hard to get hold of."

The test came back negative, meaning Gemma was able to return to work after missing four days.

Wales Trades Union Congress (TUC) general secretary Shav Taj said the system is "still confusing people" and "needs greater clarity".

She said it was a concern, in particular for workers not entitled to paid time off and company sick pay if they needed to get tested and self-isolate.

"Many key workers are low paid or on zero hours, precarious agency contracts," she said.

"They can't survive off statutory sick pay alone."

Angela Burns, who speaks on health for the Welsh Conservatives, said it was "not a surprise that there is confusion and difficulties booking a test".

"The Welsh Government spent nearly a month delaying access to an online portal, wanting a distinctive Welsh approach to the pandemic instead of using the UK Government's online portal," she said.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Stan said:

@Bluebird Hewitt

I'm guessing this is the thing you were saying about the other day...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52784439

Pretty much. Tried our own system just to be different for the sake of it, ditched it as 'issues were apparently resolved' with the UK Government over the UK wide system and we still can't book tests. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Harvsky said:

Popping up in the commentariat analysis has routinely been what election pivots are going on for at least the last 6 months if not more. The public not actively thinking about who to vote for doesn't really matter. For a governing power this is a key moment to ensure you go into the door knocking stage in control of the topics and with positive perceptions.

There was a period before Calderwood resigned in which she was obviously not going to be doing public speaking but was still the senior professional in policy. She presumably resigned under pressure from the government, and would have been removed by Sturgeon had she not resigned. 

Overall, I think that the SNP's electoral position would not have been jeapordised had she stayed - particularly in light of this new mess blowing up in the Scottish Tories' face. But they behaved as though it were important to maintain trust regardless. 

You can call that a sense of civic responsibility, or a sincere fear of electoral setbacks, but the effect is the same. The Tories do not seem to have either of these forces working on them.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

FINISH HIM xD

Surely not?! 

 

Expertly timed by Mirror if so. 

Let the first instance get all the controversy then release another story to have a greater effect...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Stan said:

Surely not?! 

 

Expertly timed by Mirror if so. 

Let the first instance get all the controversy then release another story to have a greater effect...

Played the odious, predictable twats like a fiddle. Nothing sweeter than seeing independent journalism bring down one of the king pins behind creating the culture war in this country that had led to independent journalists who report based on facts rather than their own political beliefs to be denigrated, caught in the crossfire of Britain's new football politics.

I now hope to see no mercy from the BBC particularly in finishing off the little scrote who has held a knife to their throat in his mission to eradicate unbiased political reporting in the UK.

This was his smug face earlier, literally goading the media because he thinks he "beat them" by winning the referendum but now the Mirror and Guardian have twisted the knife. 

The best part is leaving the Part Two long enough to give Raab, Hancock, Sunak and co the chance to put the pandemic ahead of loyalty to an unelected colleague. They made their choice and will now be tainted by the consequences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed. They can either backtrack and call for his sacking and look like idiots for even defending him in the first place or look like bigger fools trying to defend this second shitstorm. 

Good luck lads xD

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Inverted said:

There was a period before Calderwood resigned in which she was obviously not going to be doing public speaking but was still the senior professional in policy. She presumably resigned under pressure from the government, and would have been removed by Sturgeon had she not resigned. 

Overall, I think that the SNP's electoral position would not have been jeapordised had she stayed - particularly in light of this new mess blowing up in the Scottish Tories' face. But they behaved as though it were important to maintain trust regardless. 

You can call that a sense of civic responsibility, or a sincere fear of electoral setbacks, but the effect is the same. The Tories do not seem to have either of these forces working on them.

 

Argubly Calderwood is more comparable to Ferguson than Cummings. An easy push.

Cummings is powerful, that is what we are seeing. He plays a key role in the power structure of Boris Johnson's Conservative Party. I'm not surprised they're wriggling to keep him.

You say the force of public pressure isn't working on them but this will damage their image by not following social protocol. There are consequences to it, that's the whole point of it. The whole point of pushing is to avoid that under the premise that it all adds up eventually. Would they have made a different decision closer to an election? Most likely it is built into their judgement. Early polling already indicating 41% of those who voted Conservative 6 months ago think he should go. Lib Dem voters 72%, Labour 66%. 6% difference between those two likely resides im social class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Advertisement