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Roma (2018)

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I'm down for this. 

I'll try and watch it this week. 

Thank you @Pyfish

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Its quite good. I'll wait for everyone to finish watching it then we can start discussing. Thanks for the choice @nudge

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I've stuck the trailer in the original post too.

 

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1 minute ago, Mel81x said:

Its quite good. I'll wait for everyone to finish watching it then we can start discussing. Thanks for the choice @nudge

Oh you've seen it already? :( 

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Just now, nudge said:

Oh you've seen it already? :( 

Thats okay I'll watch it again. Its good to watch movies like this again and I think its a good reco.

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Not seen this but it sounds like one me and the wife can watch together and the trailer looks good.

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Started to watch it last night but it's a no from me, it's sub-titled and in Spanish and there are not many films I can enjoy that's not in English and sub-titled, I wish I was someone like @nudge who can speak/read and listen to multiple languages. 

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Going to try and watch it over the next couple of days. I don't mind films in a foreign language with subtitles so should be fine!

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I'll try to watch it tomorrow night. 

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Give it a watch over the weekend 

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Well this is a real slow burner for sure... I'm halfway through and enjoying it but I can see it not being everyone's cup of tea.

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I watched the first 30 minutes on Saturday night but then I was falling asleep (not because of the film). I'll give it another more focused attempt later this week!

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Yeah I think it turned out to be a bit of a poor choice by me. I enjoyed the film; think it's very beautiful cinematography-wise and it's great as a "slice of life" movie but if you're not into that then it's likely going to bore the crap out of you.

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1 hour ago, nudge said:

Yeah I think it turned out to be a bit of a poor choice by me. I enjoyed the film; think it's very beautiful cinematography-wise and it's great as a "slice of life" movie but if you're not into that then it's likely going to bore the crap out of you.

That's what this is all about though. Watching films that we enjoy but also ones that can be outside of what we would perhaps normally watch. 

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Just now, Pyfish said:

That's what this is all about though. Watching films that we enjoy but also ones that can be outside of what we would perhaps normally watch. 

True but still, we're doing this for fun so watching a movie shouldn't feel like a chore... I know I'd quit in the middle of a movie if it didn't appeal to me enough; so I understand that working your way through a 2+ hour slow-paced movie with little plot might seem like an unnecessary waste of time...

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So... I think it might be time to choose a new film @Pyfish  xD 

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I forgot, sorry @nudge 😂Been away for a few days. Who would you like to nominate for next choice?

I'll message the person you nominate for their choice and then we can keep this thread open if anyone decides to watch it at a later date.

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17 minutes ago, Pyfish said:

I forgot, sorry @nudge 😂Been away for a few days. Who would you like to nominate for next choice?

I'll message the person you nominate for their choice and then we can keep this thread open if anyone decides to watch it at a later date.

Oh just anyone really; I think @Mel81x was supposed to choose before me so let's nominate him.

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Some snappy customers in here haha. It is a slow movie though and hard to really stay focused on it unless you want to really watch it. 

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Hang on, and sorry @Pyfish because I know you've started the next one. But since this is a film club, I've got a bit of discussion I want to have about this film because... well... I've got questions.

For those of you that think this film is good... why do you think it's good? I genuinely want to know what I'm missing from it.

And here are my thoughts:

I'll start with a positive, because this film isn't going to get much positivity from me. I thought the cinematography was top tier. Really really nice looking film.

But I don't think visuals alone make a film tell a great story. And considering how highly rated this flick was, I was expecting some moving and compelling story. But ultimately, the main drama of the story here is straight out of a Mexican telenovela - and yeah, I get that's why soaps are popular on TV - it's drama that a lot of people can find "relatable" but, I guess I was expecting something a little more interesting for that main bit of drama.

And then secondly, the choice to make this a slow burner was to just put in a shitload of filler before they unfold the film's actual drama. There's stuff that happens, I suppose the idea is to capture that these are people trying to live their lives as traumatic real world events happen around them. But the thing is... these events happen and then the story just keeps going - it doesn't do anything for character development or moving the story along. They just happen for the sake of it happening - the time where the events around the characters seems to matter most is the protests slowing them down on their way to have the baby delivered.

I think I mentioned character development... and here's I think my biggest flaw with this beautiful film with it's long and (imo) uncompelling story. Cleo barely speaks the whole film - and most of what she says isn't really important to driving along the plot. And by the time we are given insight into Cleo's desires/wants/personality... it's so late in the film that I didn't care about her as a character.

So what did I miss? Because it doesn't get good reviews for nothing, I assume?

Although it's directed by the same guy who did Gravity, which everyone fucking loved, and then I watched it and thought "uhhh… is this the same film everyone's talking about?" Another visually impressive flick with... a story and characters I had a hard time caring about.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Hang on, and sorry @Pyfish because I know you've started the next one. But since this is a film club, I've got a bit of discussion I want to have about this film because... well... I've got questions.

For those of you that think this film is good... why do you think it's good? I genuinely want to know what I'm missing from it.

And here are my thoughts:

I'll start with a positive, because this film isn't going to get much positivity from me. I thought the cinematography was top tier. Really really nice looking film.

But I don't think visuals alone make a film tell a great story. And considering how highly rated this flick was, I was expecting some moving and compelling story. But ultimately, the main drama of the story here is straight out of a Mexican telenovela - and yeah, I get that's why soaps are popular on TV - it's drama that a lot of people can find "relatable" but, I guess I was expecting something a little more interesting for that main bit of drama.

And then secondly, the choice to make this a slow burner was to just put in a shitload of filler before they unfold the film's actual drama. There's stuff that happens, I suppose the idea is to capture that these are people trying to live their lives as traumatic real world events happen around them. But the thing is... these events happen and then the story just keeps going - it doesn't do anything for character development or moving the story along. They just happen for the sake of it happening - the time where the events around the characters seems to matter most is the protests slowing them down on their way to have the baby delivered.

I think I mentioned character development... and here's I think my biggest flaw with this beautiful film with it's long and (imo) uncompelling story. Cleo barely speaks the whole film - and most of what she says isn't really important to driving along the plot. And by the time we are given insight into Cleo's desires/wants/personality... it's so late in the film that I didn't care about her as a character.

So what did I miss? Because it doesn't get good reviews for nothing, I assume?

Although it's directed by the same guy who did Gravity, which everyone fucking loved, and then I watched it and thought "uhhh… is this the same film everyone's talking about?" Another visually impressive flick with... a story and characters I had a hard time caring about.

Don't need to apologise! It's why the threads stay open, in case people.want to go back and watch or discuss the previous films.

I only got 30-45 minutes in and just could not stay interested. The look of the film was great but the narrative let it down.

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17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Hang on, and sorry @Pyfish because I know you've started the next one. But since this is a film club, I've got a bit of discussion I want to have about this film because... well... I've got questions.

For those of you that think this film is good... why do you think it's good? I genuinely want to know what I'm missing from it.

And here are my thoughts:

I'll start with a positive, because this film isn't going to get much positivity from me. I thought the cinematography was top tier. Really really nice looking film.

But I don't think visuals alone make a film tell a great story. And considering how highly rated this flick was, I was expecting some moving and compelling story. But ultimately, the main drama of the story here is straight out of a Mexican telenovela - and yeah, I get that's why soaps are popular on TV - it's drama that a lot of people can find "relatable" but, I guess I was expecting something a little more interesting for that main bit of drama.

And then secondly, the choice to make this a slow burner was to just put in a shitload of filler before they unfold the film's actual drama. There's stuff that happens, I suppose the idea is to capture that these are people trying to live their lives as traumatic real world events happen around them. But the thing is... these events happen and then the story just keeps going - it doesn't do anything for character development or moving the story along. They just happen for the sake of it happening - the time where the events around the characters seems to matter most is the protests slowing them down on their way to have the baby delivered.

I think I mentioned character development... and here's I think my biggest flaw with this beautiful film with it's long and (imo) uncompelling story. Cleo barely speaks the whole film - and most of what she says isn't really important to driving along the plot. And by the time we are given insight into Cleo's desires/wants/personality... it's so late in the film that I didn't care about her as a character.

So what did I miss? Because it doesn't get good reviews for nothing, I assume?

Although it's directed by the same guy who did Gravity, which everyone fucking loved, and then I watched it and thought "uhhh… is this the same film everyone's talking about?" Another visually impressive flick with... a story and characters I had a hard time caring about.

I think it's a bit of a niche genre; a sort of "slice-of-life" movie, so it's more focused on being a portrayal of a place and time (in this case daily life in Mexico of the 70s) rather than telling a compelling story with a clear narrative. I understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but personally, I really appreciate them for what they offer - a unique opportunity to immerse in a different society and culture by simply observing seemingly mundane daily lives of common people for some time from a distance. I get really engrossed in that for some reason when I'm in a right mood. I think it also has something to do with the existentialist angle those movies tend to have; it's the same in Roma's case. As you said, "these events happen and then the story just keeps going", "they just happen for the sake of it happening". I think that is purely deliberate by design; both larger scale events happening in the background and characters surviving their own personal crises and tragedies and moving on are used to subtly show the futility and absurdity of existence as both life and death are presented in a simple matter-of-fact manner all throughout the movie; both in dialogues and the portrayal of events as well as the general feeling of detachment created by the unmoving camera and the nature of shots. 

I also disagree with you about lack of character development; especially when it comes to Cleo. She doesn't have a voice in the movie because she doesn't have one is society either. She might not have a lot of "meaningful" dialogue but by showing us Cleo’s story the movie gives a voice to all domestic workers and servants in a Mexican society of the 70s whose desires, wants and needs often get pushed aside in favour of the wants and needs of the families they serve. Her story is so generic on purpose - it could literally be any other indigenous house maid with a different name working for a different family; I think the audience is not supposed to care particularly about Cleo but more about millions of people with similar lives and similar stories. So it's both detached and empathetic at the same time. I think there are a lot of observations about the society, culture and relationships in the movie and that's kind of the point of it.

As for Cuarón in general, I didn't like Gravity but Children of Men is one of my favourite movies ever. Highly recommended if you loved the cinematography of Roma (which I think is absolutely amazing!) but want a proper story to go with it.

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7 minutes ago, nudge said:

I think it's a bit of a niche genre; a sort of "slice-of-life" movie, so it's more focused on being a portrayal of a place and time (in this case daily life in Mexico of the 70s) rather than telling a compelling story with a clear narrative. I understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea, but personally, I really appreciate them for what they offer - a unique opportunity to immerse in a different society and culture by simply observing seemingly mundane daily lives of common people for some time from a distance. I get really engrossed in that for some reason when I'm in a right mood. I think it also has something to do with the existentialist angle those movies tend to have; it's the same in Roma's case. As you said, "these events happen and then the story just keeps going", "they just happen for the sake of it happening". I think that is purely deliberate by design; both larger scale events happening in the background and characters surviving their own personal crises and tragedies and moving on are used to subtly show the futility and absurdity of existence as both life and death are presented in a simple matter-of-fact manner all throughout the movie; both in dialogues and the portrayal of events as well as the general feeling of detachment created by the unmoving camera and the nature of shots. 

I also disagree with you about lack of character development; especially when it comes to Cleo. She doesn't have a voice in the movie because she doesn't have one is society either. She might not have a lot of "meaningful" dialogue but by showing us Cleo’s story the movie gives a voice to all domestic workers and servants in a Mexican society of the 70s whose desires, wants and needs often get pushed aside in favour of the wants and needs of the families they serve. Her story is so generic on purpose - it could literally be any other indigenous house maid with a different name working for a different family; I think the audience is not supposed to care particularly about Cleo but more about millions of people with similar lives and similar stories. So it's both detached and empathetic at the same time. I think there are a lot of observations about the society, culture and relationships in the movie and that's kind of the point of it.

As for Cuarón in general, I didn't like Gravity but Children of Men is one of my favourite movies ever. Highly recommended if you loved the cinematography of Roma (which I think is absolutely amazing!) but want a proper story to go with it.

Cheers for the last film recommendation - that sort of cinematography (which you're right, it is fantastic) but with a proper story is something that I think I would enjoy.

As for those complaints I had that, seem to be deliberate design choices by the storyteller... maybe that's just one of those things that to me I just can't get into with films. Because I do like books that are a bit like that. Having said that, one of my favourite films of all time is No Country for Old Men, where events happen but ultimately the story keeps going with no real justice... which I remember coming out of the cinema after seeing that with a group of friends and my good mate said "wow. I can't believe there was no justice at all there" - I'm not sure if that film would count as something that falls into the "slice of life" genre... personally... I don't think it does at all (but I don't know lol). But it's an example of a film that I think shows that the border town there in Texas was "no country for old men" before the film... and remained "no country for old men" after the film - nothing ultimately changes after all of the events we watch. But I feel it told more of a story. At least one that I could understand better.

I do wonder if I'm just not smart enough to really get films like Roma. Because what you say all makes sense to me, especially what you said about character development. But I never would have figured that out on my own without you spelling it out to me - not in a million years. I do think I'd have picked it up if it was written down in a book I was reading though, so maybe my brain just doesn't process films the same way? Fuck if I know though.

Still don't like the film, even with my new appreciation of it coming from you xD - should I rate the films we watch? I'll give Shawshank a 4/5, this one gets a 2/5.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Cheers for the last film recommendation - that sort of cinematography (which you're right, it is fantastic) but with a proper story is something that I think I would enjoy.

As for those complaints I had that, seem to be deliberate design choices by the storyteller... maybe that's just one of those things that to me I just can't get into with films. Because I do like books that are a bit like that. Having said that, one of my favourite films of all time is No Country for Old Men, where events happen but ultimately the story keeps going with no real justice... which I remember coming out of the cinema after seeing that with a group of friends and my good mate said "wow. I can't believe there was no justice at all there" - I'm not sure if that film would count as something that falls into the "slice of life" genre... personally... I don't think it does at all (but I don't know lol). But it's an example of a film that I think shows that the border town there in Texas was "no country for old men" before the film... and remained "no country for old men" after the film - nothing ultimately changes after all of the events we watch. But I feel it told more of a story. At least one that I could understand better.

I do wonder if I'm just not smart enough to really get films like Roma. Because what you say all makes sense to me, especially what you said about character development. But I never would have figured that out on my own without you spelling it out to me - not in a million years. I do think I'd have picked it up if it was written down in a book I was reading though, so maybe my brain just doesn't process films the same way? Fuck if I know though.

Still don't like the film, even with my new appreciation of it coming from you xD - should I rate the films we watch? I'll give Shawshank a 4/5, this one gets a 2/5.

I mean people have different tastes; there's nothing wrong with liking or disliking a certain movie... I definitely see your point regarding No Country for Old Men; I wouldn't say it falls into the "slice of life" genre either but there's definitely similarities in terms of pacing and inherently existentialist nature of the ideas behind the story and the characters so it absolutely makes sense to bring it up. I loved it too and I think it's definitely more accessible for sure.

Also no, it definitely doesn't have anything to do with you not being "smart enough" lol xD  Films (or any art form in general) speak to different people differently; thus different interpretations and different emotional responses. I think it's pretty neat. My interpretation might make sense to you (and I'm glad it does) but it's not necessarily "right" and the storyteller likely meant a different thing altogether. But I just think it is the beauty of art and also the best part of talking about movies in a "film club" as it lets you see a different perspective and see things in a different light. Also I'd say a book leaves much less things unsaid compared to a movie and is by far more straightforward as it relies on words to describe everything and pass a certain message whereas visual and audio cues in a movie make it much more open to interpretation by default.

As for the ratings - I'll play along and give Shawshank 6/10 and Roma 8/10.

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Also I'm disappointed with @Tommy for not taking part in this :(

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2 hours ago, nudge said:

Also I'm disappointed with @Tommy for not taking part in this :(

Same

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Just finished watching this, so I'll attempt to write you my thoughts and reviews. 

I'll start off my saying that I knew nothing about this movie going into it, other than it won some awards at one of the film Awards Show. I did know it was in black and white, and I assumed it was set in Italy. 

Alas, here is my review with Spoilers. 

My first thoughts are that it was a brilliant movie. It was one of the most real movies I have seen in a long time. From the beginning it just felt 

real.The actors and actress didn't look like anything in Hollywood, and nothing about this movie was over the top or so crazy to think that this couldn't actually be real events filmed in real time. 

I thought the film had a great mix of humor and tragedy. After my wife and mine's scare with our beautiful daughter, I really had a hard time watching the hospital scene, as it brought back minor PTSD emotions, and my first thought was the pause the film, wake up my daughter, and just hold her. 

The depth of the journey we see of Cleo is memorizing. We see an absolutely change of character that feels natural, yet sad, and ends with everyone admitting a lot of hard truths. The beach scene had me initially feeling very worried for Cleo, but ending with making me want to hug her and console her. She is a very naive, but likable character, and the actress did a marvelous job with connecting with the role and showing the growth in the character. 

The funny parts with me revolved around the parking of the car, I think the director did a great job with the silly humor that we had with both Antonio and Sofia attempting to park that car, and how it became this reoccurring scene that gave us a break from the growing tension that was going on elsewhere. 

I also applaud this movie because I think it accurately touches on the stages of grief. There is obvious sadness and despair, and then trusting Sofia with the truth that she didn't want the baby to begin with, and then it ending with Cleo smiling, starting to become more social, and ending with mentioning to Adela that is has, 'a lot to talk about'. 

Absolutely beautiful movie, and one that I am happy I watched. However, this isn't one of those movies that I can watch multiple times. 

Overall, I'd give his a 8.5/10

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