Administrator Stan 18,349 Posted June 2, 2020 Administrator Share Posted June 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: Seen a few people saying that you can’t say that All Lives Matter. I get this social media protest and I know and understand the reasoning why but all lives do matter. You’ve got oppression across all races and skin colours and none should be ignored despite their share of media coverage. 1 minute ago, Inti Brian said: Spot on. I get the frustration but some of this makes it sound like they are the only ones who should have privilege. All lifes matter, and blacks aren't exclusive to the discrimination. If you respond to 'Black Lives Matter' by saying 'all lives matter' you've totally missed the point. By saying Black Lives Matter, you're not saying that other races/lives matter less. It's the point that black people want to be equal to everyone else. They feel that they're not. And rightly so in my opinion. Saying black lives matter does not equate to disagreeing with 'all lives matter'. It's very basic and a bit of a cop-out to dumb it down to say there's oppression across all races/skin colours so you shouldn't be saying black lives matter. It's not being ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, ...Dan said: 2 minutes ago, Stan said: If you respond to 'Black Lives Matter' by saying 'all lives matter' you've totally missed the point. By saying Black Lives Matter, you're not saying that other races/lives matter less. It's the point that black people want to be equal to everyone else. They feel that they're not. And rightly so in my opinion. Saying black lives matter does not equate to disagreeing with 'all lives matter'. It's very basic and a bit of a cop-out to dumb it down to say there's oppression across all races/skin colours so you shouldn't be saying black lives matter. It's not being ignored. Other lives don’t matter less at this time, that’s the point. Not shite arguments about houses being on fire. If you are, rightly, horrified today you should be equally horrified throughout life at the oppression faced by many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Stan said: If you respond to 'Black Lives Matter' by saying 'all lives matter' you've totally missed the point. By saying Black Lives Matter, you're not saying that other races/lives matter less. It's the point that black people want to be equal to everyone else. They feel that they're not. And rightly so in my opinion. Saying black lives matter does not equate to disagreeing with 'all lives matter'. It's very basic and a bit of a cop-out to dumb it down to say there's oppression across all races/skin colours so you shouldn't be saying black lives matter. It's not being ignored. I know why it's exclusively about black people since they have the most rough history in the USA dating back to centuries ago which is still clearly ongoing today. However, I think @Smiley Culture's point had to do with the looting, protests and violence. You can't just do whatever you want and put other races in danger as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 If you’re using an analogy about a house being on fire and other houses not being on fire then you’re a part of the problem. That analogy intimates that other houses, or ethnicities in this instance, aren’t on fire when in fact, most, if not all, are in fact on fire. Black lives matter and protest, in the right form, is needed as much as change is. However, it is not to say that there is a league table or even a timetable of ethnicities or when we can care about them, as they are all equally as important and oppression, regardless of from whom it’s from, needs eradicating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...Dan 758 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 16 hours ago, Smiley Culture said: Other lives don’t matter less at this time, that’s the point. Not shite arguments about houses being on fire. If you are, rightly, horrified today you should be equally horrified throughout life at the oppression faced by many others. Saying black lives matter isn't an attack on anyone else. It's a statement about black people and what they face daily. Of course all lives matter, no one's disputing that. Replying all lives matter to someone saying black lives matter is belittling what they're going through. If during the holocaust there were protests where people said jewish lives matter would you think it would be necessary to say "actually, all lives matter!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, ...Dan said: Saying black lives matter isn't in attack on anyone else. It's a statement about black people and what they face daily. Of course all lives matter, no one's disputing that. Replying all lives matter to someone saying black lives matter is belittling what they're going through. If during the holocaust there were protests where people said jewish lives matter would you think it would be necessary to say "actually, all lives matter!"? I agree with you, but other people are being attacked now too. Violence has erupted, looting, arson, etc. It's gone a bit far beyond just black lives at this point. I'd imagine this is also happening in the USA but in Montreal some people flat out admitted they are taking advantage of the situation. That's not fair on anybody who actually wants a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,265 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Police brutality happens everywhere. I support Black Lives Matter in their fight against racial injustice with law enforcement, but the only gripe I really have with it are members who claim white people have the privilege of not being subject to police injustice, or any other race for that matter. That just simply isn't true. Those members will have likely no idea who Thomas Kelly or Francis Pusok are. (This is where I feel those justify saying All Lives Matter) You wouldn't think based on the media coverage, that there was more than double of police shootings against white Americans than black the past few years. Where's their story? I don't remember any police brutality protests for them? Again, this just goes to what I've been ranting about the past few pages about the media creating false narratives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Cicero said: Police brutality happens everywhere. I support Black Lives Matter in their fight against racial injustice with law enforcement, but the only gripe I really have with it are members who claim white people have the privilege of not being subject to police injustice, or any other race for that matter. That just simple isn't true. Those members will have likely no idea who Thomas Kelly or Francis Pusok are. (This is where I feel those justify saying All Lives Matter) You wouldn't think based on the media coverage, that there was more than double of police shootings against white Americans than black the past few years. Where's their story? I don't remember any police brutality protests for them? Again, this just goes to what I've been ranting about the past few pages about the media creating false narratives. And it's being imported to other countries, when they don't go together as every country has different racial issues and a different history with racism. These 2 lines here demonstrate what needs to be happening. Solidarity towards the Americans fighting for their rights, but don't get involved by destroying your own country when it won't make a difference to what happens in the USA. Luckily most of these have been peaceful protests, but in some cities it has gotten unnecessarily violent. Case in point - Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,640 Posted June 2, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted June 2, 2020 It's not a competition. Why are you arguing about which words or cartoon strips you use to express your disgust instead of simply expressing your disgust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,349 Posted June 2, 2020 Administrator Share Posted June 2, 2020 46 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: If you’re using an analogy about a house being on fire and other houses not being on fire then you’re a part of the problem. That analogy intimates that other houses, or ethnicities in this instance, aren’t on fire when in fact, most, if not all, are in fact on fire. Black lives matter and protest, in the right form, is needed as much as change is. However, it is not to say that there is a league table or even a timetable of ethnicities or when we can care about them, as they are all equally as important and oppression, regardless of from whom it’s from, needs eradicating. Do you not think they've tried this? Peaceful protests? Done. Colin Kaepernick especially, taking a knee. People didn't like that. People wanted him fired for being so brazen to do such a thing. Now, it erupts in to violence and anger. That is the rage felt because they were not listened to beforehand. The built-up feeling of oppression inside of them exploding out because they were not heard in the past. Now, people are calling for peaceful protests? Well, it's already happened and they didn't listen back then... Let's get it straight here, as well. All the looting you see does not represent those that are still protesting in the right way. Seeing people loot, smash up shops is not indicative of every single person involved in wanting equality for black people. Just like Chauvin's killing of Floyd is not indicative of every cop and how every policeman will behave. I am sure there are still protests going on the right way as well as some of the volatile scenes you see across several states. But I go back to what Martin Luther King Jr said. 'Riot is the language of the unheard'. Pretty much self-explanatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,265 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 33 minutes ago, Inti Brian said: And it's being imported to other countries, when they don't go together as every country has different racial issues and a different history with racism. These 2 lines here demonstrate what needs to be happening. Solidarity towards the Americans fighting for their rights, but don't get involved by destroying your own country when it won't make a difference to what happens in the USA. Luckily most of these have been peaceful protests, but in some cities it has gotten unnecessarily violent. Case in point - Montreal. Every country should be united against racial injustice. Injustice breeds anger. Anger breeds violence. How many more people need to die before police reform becomes a serious thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Just now, Cicero said: Every country should be united against racial injustice. Injustice breeds anger. Anger breeds violence. How many more people need to die before police reform becomes a serious thing? Protest noisily. Show solidarity. That's fine with me. However, police reform won't happen if they protest violently in Canada or Australia. I highly doubt Trump or whoever is in charge of the police in the States gives a fuck about protests elsewhere. Not only that but racial injustice is different in every country. You're just raising taxes in your own country for something that won't change where it's happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,494 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,159 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 24 minutes ago, Inti Brian said: Protest noisily. Show solidarity. That's fine with me. However, police reform won't happen if they protest violently in Canada or Australia. I highly doubt Trump or whoever is in charge of the police in the States gives a fuck about protests elsewhere. Not only that but racial injustice is different in every country. You're just raising taxes in your own country for something that won't change where it's happening. Bet the South African Apartheid government wishes there were more people saying this back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Bet the South African Apartheid government wishes there were more people saying this back then. My dad lived in South Africa during Apartheid years. He still disagrees with the riots leaving the country. The riots should stay in the USA. If you want to protest and show solidarity elsewhere without violence, that's fine. I have to question why Trump would change things for something not happening in his own country? I can guarantee if these riots initiated in Mexico, nobody would have cared outside of the country. That's mostly because it doesn't affect their economy if it goes elsewhere. Actually South Africa in itself is an example of how racial injustice is different everywhere. Some people have even gone as far as to call it "white genocide". Not every country has the same story as the USA regarding certain racial backgrounds. In South Africa both races are being killed on a consistent basis to this day. Canada didn't have the same history with slavery as the USA, at least not after independence. I'm a firm believer that for protests to happen in a certain country, has to be set off by something happening in that country. The Chilean protests last years were eerily similar to the sort of class injustice that happens in Peru, and we didn't protest violently but rather just stood in solidarity. Racism exists everywhere, but everyone of all races get discriminated and it depends on where you're going and the country's history behind it. Look at Rwanda, their genocide was sparked by decades of tension between the Hutu and the Tutsi. There was history behind that. The USA also has a history, but it's not the same as other countries. I'd say the most comparable perhaps are places like Colombia and Ecuador. Don't blow that out of proportion, as this is the moment for black people to make a stand, but I don't think police reform or equality will be achieved in the States if they protest in Germany or Canada. It will only be achieved by fighting for it in the USA. Same can be said for Canadians fighting in Canada, Germans fighting in Germany and Brazilians fighting in Brazil. Etc, etc. You aren't harming the American economy if you destroy property in Montreal, your harming your own economy. Lastly, I don't see what the likes of Trudeau or Canadian police did to deserve the economy being harmed. There was no spark, as I brought up earlier or recent incident (with the women that died in Toronto, there was no proof the cops killed her). He even said "we should stand in solidarity" and people bring up an event that happened 30 years ago (blackface) which I personally find embarrassing, and I don't even like Trudeau much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,159 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Inti Brian said: My dad lived in South Africa during Apartheid years. He still disagrees with the riots leaving the country. But international pressure on South Africa is a big part of why Apartheid ended. If your dad disagreed with Apartheid support from outside South Africa... was your dad pro-Apartheid?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said: But international pressure on South Africa is a big part of why Apartheid ended. If your dad disagreed with Apartheid support from outside South Africa... was your dad pro-Apartheid?! I can where you're coming from, but I don't think people destroying their own country is what will convince the Americans for a change. That would be countries cutting ties with the USA, so more an authority issue than anything else. Canada in particular is on the ropes with the USA as Trump and Trudeau don't get along, and he even said called Canada to "stand in solidarity". He didn't mean "destroy our own country". Scott Morrison is a wanker and apparently DOES get along with Trump. So that's on him, but to be frank with you, if we protest every time the USA want to give more importance in their lives to black lives, we should protest and destroy our own country until Saudi Arabia give women the rights they deserve. Let the USA's citizens fight for their rights, but don't get violent in other countries. It doesn't make sense. Many leaders have already spoke out and I'm sure the USA are going to lose ties throughout this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Oh and I forgot to add this at the end, my dad was definitely not pro-apartheid. But he lived through it in the 70's. He disagrees strongly with the Trump regime and thinks the police did kill Floyd because he is black and also thinks a change is needed, but doesn't see the need for other countries to get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,159 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Inti Brian said: I can where you're coming from, but I don't think people destroying their own country is what will convince the Americans for a change. That would be countries cutting ties with the USA, so more an authority issue than anything else. Canada in particular is on the ropes with the USA as Trump and Trudeau don't get along, and he even said called Canada to "stand in solidarity". He didn't mean "destroy our own country". Scott Morrison is a wanker and apparently DOES get along with Trump. So that's on him, but to be frank with you, if we protest every time the USA want to give more importance in their lives to black lives, we should protest and destroy our own country until Saudi Arabia give women the rights they deserve. Let the USA's citizens fight for their rights, but don't get violent in other countries. It doesn't make sense. Many leaders have already spoke out and I'm sure the USA are going to lose ties throughout this. I think protesting outside US embassies would be a big and more organised way of going about the international protests. That and calling for the boycott of US goods until laws are put in place that prevent militarised police from being used on protesters (which in the US has been a big source of peaceful protests escalating into moments of absolute chaos) and an end to unnecessarily violent policing that disproportionately leads to blacks getting killed. Unfortunately, we (people outside Saudi Arabia) can't really do the same thing with Saudi Arabia because they only really export just one thing... and it's oil, and they've used that for as long as we've been alive to get away with doing a lot of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpache 672 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I think protesting outside US embassies would be a big and more organised way of going about the international protests. That and calling for the boycott of US goods until laws are put in place that prevent militarised police from being used on protesters (which in the US has been a big source of peaceful protests escalating into moments of absolute chaos) and an end to unnecessarily violent policing that disproportionately leads to blacks getting killed. Unfortunately, we (people outside Saudi Arabia) can't really do the same thing with Saudi Arabia because they only really export just one thing... and it's oil, and they've used that for as long as we've been alive to get away with doing a lot of shit. Yeah that's fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 That pause... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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MUFC 1,494 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-overcome-with-rage/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,494 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/02/us/floyd-mayweather-george-floyd-funeral-spt-trnd/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Stan said: There was another where police was arresting a black FBI agent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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