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Tottenham 1-1 Man Utd - Friday 19th June, 2020


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4 minutes ago, Storts said:

Absolutely fuming.

Mourinho has to go. I don’t want to watch that football. We shouldn’t have to.

He cost us that game with those negative tactics. You saw how dangerous we looked when we attacked them. United were all over the place at the back and we looked like we could have scored a few.

So what does he do? Get them to sit back and camp in our half for the second half. No ambition whatsoever. He’s just a dinosaur. I miss Poch so much and the football he had us playing. 

It was our defeat against you lot at the lane in 2015 that changed him completely. Securing that league title at all costs shifted his mindset to total & permanent shithousery. 

 

Fucking hell I think the midfield of Bruno & Pogba is going to work. 

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6 minutes ago, Cicero said:

It was our defeat against you lot at the lane in 2015 that changed him completely. Securing that league title at all costs shifted his mindset to total & permanent shithousery. 

 

Fucking hell I think the midfield of Bruno & Pogba is going to work. 

But he doesn’t even do it well anymore. Or certainly won’t with the squad we have.

We still have fantastic attacking players. Son Kane Bergwijn is an electric front three. Lo Celso and Alli are class to have in behind. Get a holding playing with them and that is a really good top 6. But he won’t utilise them properly at all 

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17 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Anyone who saw Pogba at Juve can back this tweet up...

He's clearly capable of performances like the one today.

 

Lol nah. 

 

I'm gonna stick my neck out and guess that Karan barely watches Utd and is just stepping on the bandwagon. 

Pogba is not top tier. Sorry to say. How can you be gold standard but have such a wide reputation for being inconsistent and failing to deliver on several occasions? 

But I guess if Karan says we can't have it any other way who are we to argue eh?! 

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13 minutes ago, Cicero said:

It was our defeat against you lot at the lane in 2015 that changed him completely. Securing that league title at all costs shifted his mindset to total & permanent shithousery. 

Good point, I remember watching that game from my hotel in Italy and from there they were a totally different side. Just grinded out games, and even went out to PSG in their own home in the CL.

The first half of that season Chelsea were a machine. The Spurs game was the breaking point, and it seemed to have lasting effects on Mourinho.

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Feel for Spurs, Kane was largely awful and can't be fit. Missplaced passes and sloppy touches all over the place, Spurs looked dangerous on the counter though and waited too long after scoring to give it a go again. Apparently Mourinho reckons they didn't have the fitness

United were average, Ole prioritised McTominay over Fred and Pogba...jaysus. I think Bruno Fernandes might turn out to be the player United fans hoped Pogba was but you cannot leave Pogba out of the starting eleven, he is top class and needs to be played alongside other top class players. How he got the pen, that pass to Rashford, so dangerous.

Pogba done well to win the penalty but let's be honest he was not fouled or impeded by Dier, he reached his leg to Dier to make contact and dropped. Contact doesn't equate a foul and it's really annoying to watch it go unchecked. VAR should have called that.

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1 minute ago, Stan said:

Lol nah. 

 

I'm gonna stick my neck out and guess that Karan barely watches Utd and is just stepping on the bandwagon. 

Pogba is not top tier. Sorry to say. How can you be gold standard but have such a wide reputation for being inconsistent and failing to deliver on several occasions? 

But I guess if Karan says we can't have it any other way who are we to argue eh?! 

He's a United fan and runs several football sites.

And I agree with him when it comes to talent. I've seen Pogba both in the CL and Serie A for Juve and he's absolutely top drawer. However, I also think he is lazy as he has shown with United many times. It's nothing to do with a "jump in quality" as today isn't the first time he has delivered and put in a top performance.

I don't think it's fair to say with that consistency, you can be one of the best midfielders in the world. I do think I can say he's one of the most talented. We've seen what he's capable of.

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If Pogba plays like that eight times over a period of ten games, fair enough. 

The fact he does it four or five times in ten games is why he's so often panned.

And it was his first game back in absolute ages. He should be hungry to go out and put on a display.

Nothing will change my mind on Pogba till I see a world class level of consistency.

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Just now, Lucas said:

If Pogba plays like that eight times over a period of ten games, fair enough.

The fact he does it four or five times in ten games is why he's so often panned.

Nothing will change my mind on that till I see a world class level of consistency.

That's right. 

As you all know, I don't follow the Premier League a whole lot (though my interest is slowly returning) but I know how Pogba is because of Juve and France.

The few times I've seen him play for United, he was the difference maker. That said, I also believe United fans about his consistency. Not only because I think the ones on here and the ones I follow on Twitter are respectable, but also because he has a similar problem with the French national team, where he would be great some games and very poor on others.

In fact, anyone who says Pogba is shite should say the same about Arturo Vidal who is one of the most classy but inconsistent players I've seen.

On another hand, I think United are a bit of a toxic club. Not sure if it's the emphasis on being a brand or what, but I have noticed the players who leave United do way better. Lukaku, Smalling and even Sanchez (who admittedly still isn't great but is having his moments at Inter). They clearly have good footballers, so there's got to be a problem at the club and I can't quite pinpoint what it is. Maybe a lack of motivation?

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29 minutes ago, Mpache said:

He's a United fan and runs several football sites.

And I agree with him when it comes to talent. I've seen Pogba both in the CL and Serie A for Juve and he's absolutely top drawer. However, I also think he is lazy as he has shown with United many times. It's nothing to do with a "jump in quality" as today isn't the first time he has delivered and put in a top performance.

I don't think it's fair to say with that consistency, you can be one of the best midfielders in the world. I do think I can say he's one of the most talented. We've seen what he's capable of.

Okay talent is one thing but putting it in to performances on the pitch is another. And so is doing it consistently, which he doesn't. And that's his drawback. 'Top tier' midfielders churn out top performances week in week out. Not just when they fancy it. They don't have that lazy trait. Look at players like Modric, Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta. They are/were top tier. Pogba isn't that level. Nowhere near.

You keep mentioning Juve but that was 4 years ago. That's like talking Torres' career 4 years after he left Liverpool when he was a shadow of that player.

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3 minutes ago, Stan said:

Okay talent is one thing but putting it in to performances on the pitch is another. And so is doing it consistently, which he doesn't. And that's his drawback. 'Top tier' midfielders churn out top performances week in week out. Not just when they fancy it. They don't have that lazy trait. Look at players like Modric, Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta. They are/were top tier. Pogba isn't that level. Nowhere near.

You keep mentioning Juve but that was 4 years ago. That's like talking Torres' career 4 years after he left Liverpool when he was a shadow of that player.

About Juve it’s true that things can change. But he’s shown today he can still put in top performances. I’m not sure it’s comparable to Torres or Sanchez which could have been a number of things. I know with Sanchez it was burn out and a lack of motivation. Pogba in my eyes is lazy, because he’s shown he can still be top class. If only he was consistent!

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Only saw the second half. Spurs offered nothing but if they got out of that with a 1-0 it goes down as a Mourinho master class which I know is a meme now but also gets a lot of traction as an actual opinion.

Maguire and De Gea just awful for the Spurs goal. Well taken from Bergwijn but surely we have to accept that De Gea is done at this level now. Henderson is genuinely better over the course of this season and in another era would be given a chance to hold down the number one spot at United next season but they'll probably either give De Gea more time or make a daft vanity signing instead.

The Mourinho Spurs project is looking like a massive error to me. Everything that was good about them under Poch for multiple seasons is only allowed to appear in flashes now. Mourinho is still a pretty good manager for me in many ways but his place is somewhere like PSG where they'll never be able to build the best team in the world because of their garbage league but they can build a team that's close enough to being the best team to win a Champions League if they get a manager like Jose who knows shithouse tactics that are successful in knockout games against slightly better opposition.

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55 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

You cannot be world class and lazy = Pogba isn't world class.

 

I wouldn't want him at Liverpool on a free transfer. I wouldn't swap him for Lallana. 

I think Brian was trying to say he is talented and could be world class. Some world class players performed badly at certain clubs e.g Henry at juventus. But that was never an attitude problem. Just didn't fit the system. You will never be world class if you have a bad attitude. Even Messi wouldn't be if he didn't work hard.

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Just now, Mpache said:

Yeah I agree with @LFCMadLad that you're not world class if you're a certain level of inconsistent, but what I don't agree with is that he's not talented. He's capable of some excellent performances.

He's talented. But you can't be world class ever with the wrong attitude no matter how good you are.

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Just now, Mpache said:

Yeah I agree with @LFCMadLad that you're not world class if you're a certain level of inconsistent, but what I don't agree with is that he's not talented. He's capable of some excellent performances.

Yeah, he is capable of great performances. He isnt capable of consistently great performances. 

In my eyes he is a luxury player at best. 

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3 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Yeah I agree with @LFCMadLad that you're not world class if you're a certain level of inconsistent, but what I don't agree with is that he's not talented. He's capable of some excellent performances.

Adel Taraabt was talented, but also about as consistent as my erections were when I was on Finasteride 🤷‍♂️

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@Storts

It would have been interesting to have seen the fans' reaction to the game had they been in the stadium. You were genuinely camped on your goal line for a good part of that game. It might be a bit rich for Chelsea fans to criticise Mourinho's style when they may have been praising him to death back in the day. The difference being his style was extremely effective back then which made it more entertaining in itself, winning football can be pleasant for many fans. The fans saw effective football, football where they saw the reason and method behind it, they saw the signs of it working and the success just reaffirmed their faith in the manager's style. The triumphs and achievement also succeeded in getting him praise and appreciation for his tactical decisions. Earlier on in his managerial career, he also generally had better players at his disposal. Evidently, Mourinho style's seems worse these days, partly because the rate of success isn't as high. Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying he's always been like this, I still maintain we played some entertaining football under Mourinho even in his second spell but as @Cicero said something changed at the mid-way point that season. 

Overall, the problem with Mourinho nowadays is that you no longer see the signs of his style working. 10-15 years ago, yes he was still called out for being too negative but there were however clear signs in games of his tactics being effective, you saw the idea and the potential it had. Have a look at the last 5 years or so however and there's a lot less evidence that suggests his style is an efficient or worthwhile one. It's all become very stale.

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The only upside from this result is that Sheffield don't have to feel too bad about their draw with Villa as a win for United here would have put them a bit too far ahead for the game difference to help. They get a chance next when they play United and Wolves are up to get level as well. Race for fifth isn't totally burned yet.

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