The Palace Fan 3,400 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 . . . . For next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt 1,282 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just looking at the table now and if they were deducted points now, they'd stay up on goal difference. Guessing that deducting them points now wouldn't really be a punishment. Even so, this does show inconsistency, especially as Wigan were deducted the points immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,825 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 39 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said: Just looking at the table now and if they were deducted points now, they'd stay up on goal difference. Guessing that deducting them points now wouldn't really be a punishment. Even so, this does show inconsistency, especially as Wigan were deducted the points immediately. Eh?? Minus 12 would put them on 44. They would be 100% down, as in bottom of the league... I am sick to the back teeth of the EFL. They are essentially picking and choosing who they want to stay up and down. It's totally unfair to Wigan to get their punishment this season but Wednesday's the next. And Charlton dip out too as technically they woukd have survived. This should have been resolved months ago but it was strung out far too long. How convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt 1,282 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Lucas said: Eh?? Minus 12 puts them on 44. They would be 100% down, as in bottom of the league I am sick to the back teeth of the EFL. They are essentially picking and choosing who they want to stay up and down. It's totally unfair to Wigan. This should have been resolved months ago but it was strung out. How convenient. Fuck knows what I was looking at or calculating there. I blame alcohol. In that case, that truly is unfair on Wigan and Charlton, who would stay up if the points deduction was this season. Goes back to the inconsistent point really with the corrupt EFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcanuck 175 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Sad news, as many of my relatives are Wednesday supporters and I used walk down Pennistone road to Wednesday's ground as a kid. Expect an appeal and possibly a reduction in the points. Not saying that's warranted, just the way things seem to play out now days. Dont know why this wasn't settled sooner, Wednesday was charged about 9 months ago. It certainly affected Wednesday's state of mind, having to play most of season with this over their heads. You also have to feel sorry for Charlton, and I imagine they are considering a court challenge, it's only fair that the punishment should be applied to the season the charge is from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco 3,008 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Absolutely agree with everyone here, not sure why they decide to punish some teams immediately, while wait until the next year for others. If I was Charlton I would certainly appeal immediately as it's just creating a nasty set of double standards and at the end of the day, the real loser is Wigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,825 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, Bluebird Hewitt said: Fuck knows what I was looking at or calculating there. I blame alcohol. In that case, that truly is unfair on Wigan and Charlton, who would stay up if the points deduction was this season. Goes back to the inconsistent point really with the corrupt EFL. Honestly. I am chuffed to nuts we have left that tinpot organisation behind. The double standards, inconsistancies and lack of professionalism they have shown over the years has been nothing short of poor. This will sound arrogant and I promise you it isn't meant to sound as such but it genuinely would not surprise me if this has been done in a desperate attempt to keep Wednesday in the Championship given the EFL have lost us now. Wycombe's, Rotherham's, Norwich's and Bournemouth's are not the giants they relish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eco 3,008 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just now, Lucas said: Honestly. I am chuffed to nuts we have left that tinpot organisation behind. The double standards, inconsistancies and lack of professionalism they have shown over the years has been nothing short of poor. This will sound arrogant and I promise you it isn't meant to sound as such but it genuinely would not surprise me if this has been done in a desperate attempt to keep Wednesday in the Championship given they have also lost us now. Maybe that's why Forest decided to bottle it...you know...for the security of the league and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcanuck 175 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 28 minutes ago, CityTheBest said: Sheffield Wednesday giants? What? They haven't been in the PL since adam was a lad. They are an average Championship club at best. I doubt the EFL care that much Sheffield Wednesday, though I think punishments should be suspended for the time being due to Covid-19. Pretty much all of League One and a lot of the Championsip is going to into administration and have a 12 point deduction with the way its going. Wednesday's a well supported club by Champions standards and they are a bigger club than the ones coming down, so it wouldn't surprise if the Championship would rather keep them in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 The difference is Wigan went into administration, Sheffield Wednesday broke FFP. Sending a team down for FFP could actually ruin the club. Imagine being financially ruined and destroyed as a business just because you declared a sale in the wrong income year. A points deduction for that anyway is a farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,825 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, Harvsky said: The difference is Wigan went into administration, Sheffield Wednesday broke FFP. Sending a team down for FFP could actually ruin the club. Imagine being financially ruined and destroyed as a business just because you declared a sale in the wrong income year. A points deduction for that anyway is a farce. Sorry but I disagree. It's mismanagement at the top and they have attempted to 'cheat' the system so that they could avoid being punished. They knew full well what they were doing and didn't like it when they were initially rumbled. These rules are in place to make examples of teams that do not follow or abide by them, Birmingham had it done to them so clubs should have heeded the warning. Teams are desperately trying to balance the books each season to avoid going over the line. We sold players last summer, good players too, to ensure we did not do this, as have many others. We all make sacrifices somewhere. What Wednesday could have done or should have done, who knows, but they have tried to find a loophole with the stadium sale, probably based on ill advice from somewhere, and its stung them. So why should this penalty then be deferred whether it puts Sheffield Wednesday in a worse financial situation or not? Why should Charlton for example suffer the losses they will now as a result of going down when they could have survived if this was concluded earlier? I'm sorry but it reeks, it really does. They broke the rules. They should have been punished this season or else, they could equally have said to Wigan given the impact Covid has had to temporarily suspend any admin penalties. The EFL have manipulated it to suit their agenda and I suspect Sheffield Wednesday are quietly satisfied with the outcome. They have 46 games to rectify the mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA 107 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 When it rains it pours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 8 hours ago, Lucas said: Sorry but I disagree. It's mismanagement at the top and they have attempted to 'cheat' the system so that they could avoid being punished. They knew full well what they were doing and didn't like it when they were initially rumbled. These rules are in place to make examples of teams that do not follow or abide by them, Birmingham had it done to them so clubs should have heeded the warning. Teams are desperately trying to balance the books each season to avoid going over the line. We sold players last summer, good players too, to ensure we did not do this, as have many others. We all make sacrifices somewhere. What Wednesday could have done or should have done, who knows, but they have tried to find a loophole with the stadium sale, probably based on ill advice from somewhere, and its stung them. So why should this penalty then be deferred whether it puts Sheffield Wednesday in a worse financial situation or not? Why should Charlton for example suffer the losses they will now as a result of going down when they could have survived if this was concluded earlier? I'm sorry but it reeks, it really does. They broke the rules. They should have been punished this season or else, they could equally have said to Wigan given the impact Covid has had to temporarily suspend any admin penalties. The EFL have manipulated it to suit their agenda and I suspect Sheffield Wednesday are quietly satisfied with the outcome. They have 46 games to rectify the mistakes. If FFP cripples a clubs revenue it defeats its own purpose. That purpose being the financial sustainability of a football club. Any punishment for breaching rules in business must be relevant to the advantage gained. Declaring a sale in the wrong year hardly gave them a 13 point advantage over everyone else. Relegating Sheffield Wednesday would give them a punishment that even further outweighs the crime. The inconsistency of outcome is likely the result of coming up with shit rules in the first place. A fault line exposed. Relegating Sheffield Wednesday just to push through unjust rules would be naff. Likewise in fact if a club goes into Administration there is absolutely no reason why they should get a points deduction, it is self defeating, it pours fuel onto the fire of that club. The EFL is littered with over the top deterrents. Only when they don't deter do you see how OTT it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted August 1, 2020 Administrator Share Posted August 1, 2020 Will Derby face the same punishment? Didn't they have stadium issues too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,400 Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 5 hours ago, Harvsky said: Likewise in fact if a club goes into Administration there is absolutely no reason why they should get a points deduction, it is self defeating, it pours fuel onto the fire of that club. The EFL is littered with over the top deterrents. Only when they don't deter do you see how OTT it was. If there was no penalty sanction the cost to the tax payer would be substantial as owners putting clubs in to administration would be far more frequent. Nobody wants that. If anything we are far too lenient and im saying that as somebody who knows all too well the impact administration can have on a football club. Across most of the bigger footballing countries in Europe you automatically drop down a league with no discussion. Its not fair on the clubs that are set to lose six million because of the EFL's incompetence. Imagine if Barnsley had dropped again. 12 million in 3 seasons they would have lost because other teams cheat. Absolutely not on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,400 Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Stan said: Will Derby face the same punishment? Didn't they have stadium issues too? My understanding is Derby County's issues are slightly more complex because part of their defence is that they sought advice from representatives of the EFL before selling their ground. They're not as concerned as a points deduction as Sheffield Wednesday were, and given Wednesday got the absolute minimum punishment in the circumstance I imagine they're even more quietly confident now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 5 hours ago, The Palace Fan said: If there was no penalty sanction the cost to the tax payer would be substantial as owners putting clubs in to administration would be far more frequent. Nobody wants that. If anything we are far too lenient and im saying that as somebody who knows all too well the impact administration can have on a football club. Across most of the bigger footballing countries in Europe you automatically drop down a league with no discussion. Its not fair on the clubs that are set to lose six million because of the EFL's incompetence. Imagine if Barnsley had dropped again. 12 million in 3 seasons they would have lost because other teams cheat. Absolutely not on. I get the deterrent idea that without this more clubs would go into administration, but is it actually true? Perhaps stopping clubs from being bought using debt which the club is liable for rather than debt the actual buyer is liable would be a good place to start. Administration in the business world is supposed to be a detterent enough because the shareholders lose absolutely everything. If that's not working something is going wrong somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Pyfish+ 2,773 Posted November 4, 2020 Subscriber Share Posted November 4, 2020 It’s been reduced by half now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,825 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Interesting. How can you be half guilty? Surely you are either guilty or not guilty? EFL, never change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted November 4, 2020 Administrator Share Posted November 4, 2020 34 minutes ago, Lucas said: Interesting. How can you be half guilty? Surely you are either guilty or not guilty? EFL, never change It's just the punishment that's changed, as opposed to changing the guilty finding? Like a criminal's prison sentence being reduced for any given reason. They still did the crime, but the sentence might have been deemed too harsh so is reduced retrospectively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,825 Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Stan said: It's just the punishment that's changed, as opposed to changing the guilty finding? Like a criminal's prison sentence being reduced for any given reason. They still did the crime, but the sentence might have been deemed too harsh so is reduced retrospectively? But if the initial punishment for doing it is 12pts, it's 12pts. If there is evidence to suggest that's not right, then you don't charge them anything surely? It has been a farce from the start. Had they had the deduction applied end of last season, they would have gone down let's not forget and Wigan would have survived. I can't help but feel it's a sticky wicket that the EFL have made for themselves when Derby got off scot free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted November 4, 2020 Administrator Share Posted November 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lucas said: But if the initial punishment for doing it is 12pts, it's 12pts. If there is evidence to suggest that's not right, then you don't charge them anything surely? It has been a farce from the start and the sticky wicket that the EFL have made for themselves was when Derby got off scot free. Yeah I'm just playing devil's advocate. EFL are a parody unto themselves at the best of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,367 Posted November 4, 2020 Administrator Share Posted November 4, 2020 Stoppage time winner for Watford over Stoke. Reading bubble burst? Defeat against Coventry and now a crushing home defeat to Preston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcanuck 175 Posted November 6, 2020 Share Posted November 6, 2020 Reducing the penalty to 6 points is huge. Expect Wednesday to stay up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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