Chelsea Discussion

[carefreeluke]

The problems we're having with the gaps and balance in midfield are a consequence of us not pressing well enough. Teams have firstly found that space when they play out well and beat our original high press either because we've timed it wrong, it's not been executed well enough or positionally the team isn't in the right shape. Or sometimes it's just extremely good play from the opposition and they get out. If you're pressing the opposition high and they beat that, there's always going to be a lot of space for them to exploit, it's just a matter of how well we react and adjust. This however shouldn't happen too much if the team is functioning well from a tactical point of view. High pressing is designed to condense the pitch and close the exit routes but at times we’re allowing teams the space to find a way out.

The second time it occurs is when we're on the attack and the opposition counter quickly, this is what @The Liquidator mentions above where it appears a lot of the players were taken out the game on Sunday. This is again a tactical thing, it's how quickly our players counter press, the positional play of the players, how deep our defence is, the relationship and shape of the different parts of the team. I agree this is in part down to the dynamism of the players we have but it's also something that needs to be fine-tuned and worked on from a tactical point of view. We were extremely good at counter pressing under Conte. And I'm hoping Kanté's return would be massive boost for us in this area, arguably Kanté's best attribute is counter pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch, some people tend to believe his best work happens in his own half just in front of the defence but I'd say further up is where we see some of his best endeavors. When Kanté was absent last season, you could really see the difference in our midfield and that was in a more conservative playing style as well. 

This leads to Fabregas. As I've mentioned too many times on here, Fabregas performed to a very high level in Conte's first season, you know it's very difficult to get a full season's consistency from him but if managed well, he's an asset and can be a useful squad member. The thing with him though is that he's got a bit comfortable over the years being the only central midfielder of his ilk at the club, meaning that if we need to go on the attack or need help on the ball in a game the only option we have is turning to him to help us with this. Cesc was the answer if we needed to find a goal or alternatively if we needed help controlling or moving the ball in midfield, both from deep and further up the pitch. I for one think that we should have maybe been a bit wiser in either finding another player of his style to have in the squad or even with him getting on a bit looking to replace him. We have Jorginho in a deeper position now but we also have three central players in midfield meaning that this reliance on Fabregas will continue. For the record I wouldn’t replace him, just find a similar player that can do a similar job to act as competition.

Finally, on this topic of the team’s balance. It’s worth reminding us of the team’s performance away to Man City last season where there was absolutely no space for City to exploit (Conte was obsessed with balance and closing the spaces) but where we just sat off and got mugged off for most of the game. As we know Sarri will need time to implement his ideas and for the players to get fully use to things from a tactical point of view but it could potentially get a lot worse before it gets better and I’m just hoping the board give Sarri the time. Some of the space which the opposition have found against us so far under Sarri, is similar to the space teams were finding against Pep’s Man City in his first season and funnily enough this is something we exploited against them in our 3-1 win at the Etihad. Let’s just hope Mr. Sarri is given the time, then secondly, that he has the management necessary to get things right.

Edited August 6, 2018 by carefreeluke

[Cicero]

The press will come over time. You just have to take a look at Napoli last season to see what the finished article looks like. 

However, I am still adamant that the system can only go so far with the personal. Some of them are not good enough on a technical level. 

[Marc]

Sky are saying Real value Courtois at 32m and stoke value Butland at 30m lol. Surely not

[LFCMadLad]

3 hours ago, Cicero said:

Recent news we are moving in on Fekir. We face Lyon tomorrow or Wednesday too. 

Absolute brilliant signing if we pull it off. 

We had him in the bag, pictures done the lot. His medical however showed serious issues with an old ACL injury that hadn't been treated properly. 

It's a massive gamble signing him for the money they want. 

[Cicero]

Hazard to be named captain 

[Spike]

3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Hazard to be named captain 

Well then. 

[carefreeluke]

Rob Green what a joker. 

Better pressing today I thought but not a game you could draw too many conclusions from.

Edited August 7, 2018 by carefreeluke

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, carefreeluke said:

Rob Green what a joker. 

Better pressing today I thought but not a game you could draw too many conclusions from.

Hopefully, it did for Sarri regarding Drinkwater, Bakayoko, Moses, and Alonso. 

[Danny]

Cole Dasilva has just signed a 2 year deal with our B Team, any idea what he's like?

[The Palace Fan]

25 minutes ago, Danny said:

Cole Dasilva has just signed a 2 year deal with our B Team, any idea what he's like?

Cole is a regular signing of mine on FM. This is because his brother Jay always turns out to be very good, and he's more receptive to sign if his brother is already with me.

Whilst Jay becomes an established Premier League player, Cole usually ends up playing his trade at somebody like Wycombe. That said, the last unknown Chelsea youngster that joined Brentford looks like he could be something special. So here's hopeing.

[RandoEFC+]

Classic FM tactics from @The Palace Fan.

Two of my three housemates are Chelsea fans. Watched the end of the game with them tonight. Asked them where they think they'll finish this season and they said smart money is on another 5th/6th but they wouldn't bet on it.

That Champions Cup thing is so utterly stupid. I can't remember a Premier League club having a pre season friendly between the Community Shield and opening game. You could tell it was a pointless exercise by how both teams played.

Anyway, Chelsea look really incomplete to me. Despite that I think due to circumstances elsewhere they still have a chance of top four this season. Arsenals business doesn't convince me and nor does Emery so for me it's a toss up of which one of the two clubs finishes above the other. Spurs and United could go either way for their own reasons so could see Chelsea 3rd or 6th in my opinion.

[The Liquidator]

9 hours ago, Danny said:

Cole Dasilva has just signed a 2 year deal with our B Team, any idea what he's like?

Cole along with his twin brother Rio were both signed by us from Luton Town as a condition to get their older brother Jay. Jay is the player and some say at Chelsea he would be our starting left back if he wasnt so small. As I understand it he was very good while on loan at Charlton.

I would say Cole has done very well to get a 2 year contract with a championship club and it's probably fair to say there will be people of power in our youth system who will be pleasantly surprised after they released him, but very happy for him. I hope he does well for you.

He plays at full back, more often at Left full back, but he has played right side too. In my opinion he does not hold his position well, often caught out by over exposing himself too far forward. When the club turned to three at the back he lost his position in the youth sides and this probably helped the decision to release him. Its great news he has got a 2 year contract!

[Danny]

56 minutes ago, The Liquidator said:

Cole along with his twin brother Rio were both signed by us from Luton Town as a condition to get their older brother Jay. Jay is the player and some say at Chelsea he would be our starting left back if he wasnt so small. As I understand it he was very good while on loan at Charlton.

I would say Cole has done very well to get a 2 year contract with a championship club and it's probably fair to say there will be people of power in our youth system who will be pleasantly surprised after they released him, but very happy for him. I hope he does well for you.

He plays at full back, more often at Left full back, but he has played right side too. In my opinion he does not hold his position well, often caught out by over exposing himself too far forward. When the club turned to three at the back he lost his position in the youth sides and this probably helped the decision to release him. Its great news he has got a 2 year contract!

Yeah I had a feeling Coke and Rio may have been signed under those circumstances. Be interesting to see how he does, he'll get plenty of games in the B Team and we need more players in it after loaning out and releasing players.

[The Liquidator]

With our club busy trying to tie down deals for players, last night we saw the current crop of players play their last pre season fixture before the season starts. In what was a fairly boring game to watch, spoilt by Pat Nevin’s commentary on Premier sports (Sound off after 20 mins) we pretty much saw all our players other than the one on awol.

Tammy had a huge chance to show he is ready to lead the line or at least offer something to the new manager and for me only managed to seal a loan out of the club. He was bang average, more probable poor if truth is told. Granted he made a lot of runs which were not seen by his fellow players, but his overall performance was not good enough. He should go somewhere where he going to start, so I think that would rule out other Premier League teams.

Kante, when introduced played to the right of our midfield three. Not so sure about that and I believe this will be one of the more interesting decisions to watch.

Emerson for me is a poor defender which means playing a four at the back, we do not have anyone who can be safe in the position. He looks ok going forward, a bit like Alonso, but I wouldn’t back him to close down his flank at anytime.

Can Christensen play in a four? Again I am not so sure. I think he is a natural on the ball coming out in a three, but there seems to be lacking something in a four. Again, the four chosen in the early games will be illuminating.

Is Ampado ready? I think he is very tidy on the ball. Looks to organize around him, but I remember Ricky talking about Jeffery Bruma when he first broke into the squad n played a few games. Ricky, in a truthful moment when asked about Bruma said, he need to learn how to position his body when challenging. He will get it, it just takes time. I feel the same about Ampado. It’s noticeable how many free kicks he gives away and when he challenges he does not seem to have his body balance right. Very much how Ricky flagged up about Bruma. It’s obvious he is a player. I just wonder if he would benefit on a loan as I cant see him troubling the first 11 without injuries.

It seems like we are about to splash the cash on a keeper, something I felt was very unlikely. Some are saying it’s a panic move? I am not sure on that, but what I am sure of is we are spending the money at the wrong end of the pitch.

I think its fairly universally agreed we are unlikely to trouble any of the silverwear this season, so why not use the season to give experience to players we have coming through. The young Polish keeper looks like he is gonna be a good one. The new manager keeps picking him, plenty of game time , as thou he was trying to make his mind up on him. I think I would preferred to give him a go in the league and spent the money up top. Look Kepa may well fix our goalie problem for the next ten years, but I remember people saying that was why Jose went for Courtois. Didn’t work out that well. A season with Bulka and Wily plus super Robert Green for me is a gamble that would be worth taking for this coming season.

Anyway, its nice to see the club spending money again, even if its in a way I don’t agree with. Who the fuck is going to get the goals?

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, The Liquidator said:

Kante, when introduced played to the right of our midfield three. Not so sure about that and I believe this will be one of the more interesting decisions to watch.

Emerson for me is a poor defender which means playing a four at the back, we do not have anyone who can be safe in the position. He looks ok going forward, a bit like Alonso, but I wouldn’t back him to close down his flank at anytime.

Can Christensen play in a four? Again I am not so sure. I think he is a natural on the ball coming out in a three, but there seems to be lacking something in a four. Again, the four chosen in the early games will be illuminating.

Is Ampado ready? I think he is very tidy on the ball. Looks to organize around him, but I remember Ricky talking about Jeffery Bruma when he first broke into the squad n played a few games. Ricky, in a truthful moment when asked about Bruma said, he need to learn how to position his body when challenging. He will get it, it just takes time. I feel the same about Ampado. It’s noticeable how many free kicks he gives away and when he challenges he does not seem to have his body balance right. Very much how Ricky flagged up about Bruma. It’s obvious he is a player. I just wonder if he would benefit on a loan as I cant see him troubling the first 11 without injuries.

Who the fuck is going to get the goals?

 

I thought Kante looked comfortable alongside Jorginho. In fact, they seemed to complement one another (the great through ball that sent Kante through on goal). I know it was only a 15-20 minute cameo, but both Jorginho and Kante's off the ball press was wonderful. I lost track of how many times we won the ball back. My biggest concern is whether or not Kovacic will be useful in the other CM spot, as his end product is questionable. Still has more to his game than Barkley and Reuben Loftus-Cheek mind you. 

 

[SirBalon]

2 minutes ago, Cicero said:

I thought Kante looked comfortable alongside Jorginho. In fact, they seemed to complement one another (the great through ball that sent Kante through on goal). I know it was only a 15-20 minute cameo, but both Jorginho and Kante's off the ball press was wonderful. I lost track of how many times we won the ball back. My biggest concern is whether or not Kovacic will be useful in the other CM spot, as his end product is questionable. Still has more to his game than Barkley and Reuben Loftus-Cheek mind you. 

 

Kovačić is a high energy midfielder which will compliment the two (Jorginho and Kanté)... It's what Napoli were missing with the Jorginho, Allen and Hamšik midfield.  Allen didn't have the quality necessary to make it all a clean middle of the park.

[True Blue]

Kovačić, Fekir and the new keeper would be a good summer. Also add Jorginho to that i would be pleased, plus if we keep Ampadu, Odoi and Loftus i would cream my pants.

[Cicero]

Think Fekir will be used as a #9 the more I think about it. Especially if Batshuayi goes. 

Nonetheless, even if we don't get him its been a pretty good window for our standards. 

 

Kovacic/Barkley--------------Kante/Loftus-Cheek/Fabregas

Jorginho/Fabregas/Ampadu 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Cicero

[The Liquidator]

71.6M spent on a goalie ~ 7 Year contract ~ Never for one minute when the story broke did I think we would cough up that amount of money ~ Not sure I am happy to be proved wrong ~ But ~ C'est la vie!

[True Blue]

Hope he proves to be the real deal, 72 mill is insane. However if he manages to be our long term keeper could be worth the money easily. Wish him well nonetheless. 

[Cicero]

With the window closed, this probably our best lineup going into the season. 

 

Batshuayi

Hazard-----------------Pedro

Kovacic-----Kante

Jorginho

Emerson----Rudiger---Christensen---Dave

Kepa

 

Good news is the window for other leagues is still open, so moves for Bakayoko, Moses, and Drinkwater still possible. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Cicero

[The Liquidator]

So, transfer window closes and sources are openly stating the club are very pleased with their work during it.

This is how I read it, please correct me if I am wrong.

The goalie is a status quo, at least the one coming in is expecting to be as good as the one leaving, so no improvement & hopefully no digressed in the position.

We get what we must believe as the main player the manager wanted out of his former club, who will take one of Europes best players position, forcing him wide.

As a sweetener, not costing a penny, we get one of Europe's best talents a couple of years ago, who was unable to play for the Spanish muppet club. We have him for one year and no fixed price if we want to buy him after the season.

Our net spend is around the 80m mark, mainly down to the new keeper. Without that move the net spend is under 20m.

We didnt get a back four defender or someone to score.

I am not sure what there is to be pleased about?

 

[Cicero]

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, The Liquidator said:

So, transfer window closes and sources are openly stating the club are very pleased with their work during it.

This is how I read it, please correct me if I am wrong.

The goalie is a status quo, at least the one coming in is expecting to be as good as the one leaving, so no improvement & hopefully no digressed in the position.

We get what we must believe as the main player the manager wanted out of his former club, who will take one of Europes best players position, forcing him wide.

As a sweetener, not costing a penny, we get one of Europe's best talents a couple of years ago, who was unable to play for the Spanish muppet club. We have him for one year and no fixed price if we want to buy him after the season.

Our net spend is around the 80m mark, mainly down to the new keeper. Without that move the net spend is under 20m.

We didnt get a back four defender or someone to score.

I am not sure what there is to be pleased about?

 

I know you and I rarely agree... and I'll concede that for Chelsea, I think it's far from an ideal window. But compared to how things were looking last week, I don't think it looks too bad.

Having said that... I think replacing Courtois with Kepa, assuming Kepa plays at the standard he did at Bilbao his whole time in a Chelsea shirt, is a positive move overall. Courtois made no secret about his desire to go back to Madrid ASAP, he was always giving very candid interviews that may not have the best thing for your club to have out in the public - ultimately, an unhappy and unsettled player can end up being a rotten apple in the dressing room. With Kepa, if he performs at a similar standard, sure on paper it's "no improvement" in the position - but I think maybe for squad morale, you're probably better off without him and that counts for something. Ultimately, I don't think Courtois ever really performed at the level Chelsea got used to from Cech - maybe Kepa ends up being a more worthy replacement?

I think it's a fresh start that'll probably be good behind the scenes with his teammates, as he's not constantly giving his opinion on leaving and bitching about how he wants a move... and if he pans out nicely for you, that's your long term future in one of the most important positions on the pitch solved for the foreseeable future.

Jorginho, as someone who was a big fan of his in Italy, is a player I find will win you over massively at Chelsea. He's a very intelligent player and I think you'll find in most matches you play with him on the pitch, he will be dictating the tempo of those matches - the only matches he plays in where I foresee that he won't be dictating the tempo for the entirety of the match is when you're up against the sides in the league that have midfields that can compare to Chelsea's - and while last season was a disappointment for Chelsea... you've still got one of the best midfields in the country. I'm confident he'll be your most important signing of the season - a player like him is a MASSIVE part of Sarri's tactical setup, for your board to want Sarri they should want a player that's integral to his style of play as well.

Honestly, the only way I can see Jorginho not being a hit with you is if he's one of those players that just never really settles in England, despite having quality and demonstrating it in another league. And sure, that's a possibility. It wouldn't be the first time we've seen a player that can light it up in Italy or Spain... and then comes to England and goes from hot to cold. But I don't see that happening, personally, but it's possible... I think he'll fit in very nicely at Chelsea though. If he doesn't though... then yeah, that's massively shite for you.

Fully understand your concern with Kovacic not being able to make it with Real Madrid. We got the highly rated Nuri Sahin who also failed to establish himself at Real Madrid on a loan with the option to buy as well... there was lots of optimism that we were landing someone who was truly quality that just couldn't break through because Real Madrid have a very good midfield & it would be hard for a young player to get in over established talent. And yeah, I can believe it was hard for Sahin to make it in that Real Madrid midfield... because he wasn't as good as the hype around him was.

Now I'm not saying Kovacic is the same sort of player. In fact, I think he's probably pretty good - and Madrid do have a very good midfield... so it is tough for a player to break through there. But yeah it's a risk. But I think Chelsea have done a good job mitigating that risk by bringing him on loan with the option to buy. If he's good, cool, you pay the fee and he's your player. If he's bad... he goes back to Madrid next season. Pretty low risk for Chelsea - and ultimately a risk worth taking.

No point mentioning Rob Green because he'll never play lol.

So yeah, it's not that Chelsea had a perfect transfer window. They didn't - you lot could have brought in more players to address every need that you had from last season on the pitch. But I don't think Chelsea had a bad transfer window either - it's not as though there's nothing to be pleased by. I think Kepa and Jorginho are exciting signings for any club. And you get a trial run of Kovacic - if he shows the promise he did at Inter, you'll get him. And if he doesn't, it's no major loss to Chelsea.

Honestly, I think part of the reason we didn't see wholesale changes at Chelsea last season is because you're not that far removed from when you were league champions... and I think the club's board would like to know whether last season's failings were more on Conte losing the plot or because of the quality of the players. I think you'll, at very least, make the CL this year - and if the board then doesn't invest in bringing in quality (which in turn, will improve your bench), then they haven't learned from last season and then I think you'll have more right to be aggrieved.

But this summer, while not perfect, is more positive than how things were looking at Chelsea last week.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Dr. Gonzo

[DNA]

6 hours ago, Cicero said:

With the window closed, this probably our best lineup going into the season. 

 

Batshuayi

Hazard-----------------Pedro

Kovacic-----Kante

Jorginho

Emerson----Rudiger---Christensen---Dave

Kepa

 

Good news is the window for other leagues is still open, so moves for Bakayoko, Moses, and Drinkwater still possible. 

As if Willian is going to get anything other than a starting spot at Chelsea after the window just gone and his profile at the club.