League A - Group A2 Fixtures - 5-8th September 2020

[Smiley Culture]

3 hours ago, The Käiser said:

Agreed. A lot of coaches are still treating these as friendly by playing only half the players they normally would and achieving mixed results. 
if this is going to continue then this tournaments value will decrease fairly quickly. 
(not sure the tournament has been fully accepted anyways)

they should bring back friendly games if this is the case. 

if teams/managers/players don’t care much to win it, why should the fans?

I’d argue that’s fine that teams are treating these two games as Friendlies given the extraordinary circumstances we find ourselves in as a sport and I expect that the October games will have, certainly from an England perspective when players are hopefully back from injury, a higher intensity and competitive nature to them. 

[Smiley Culture]

1 minute ago, Danny said:

Eddie Howe will be far, far worse, bloke can’t organise a defence

Yes, I agree. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

Crazy idea. Howe organizes the attack and Southgate organizes the defense 

[Dan+]

Our defence has been a problem in the biggest games and there isn't loads you can do to fix it, because I feel playing risk-averse football just leads to games like that Italy one in Euro 2012 where we let them dictate the whole thing and we end up losing it anyway.

Everyone talks about this threat England have going forward, and to me there is some truth in it, that front three is something to fear - it should be Denmark trying to stifle us rather than the other way around.

I get these circumstances are tricky but I've just seen Belgium make fairly light work of that Denmark side without Hazard & De Bruyne playing. We've caved in to fear again and now need 4 points from Belgium to go through. On that showing there's no way that's happening. If we lose in Brussels that's them winning the group bar a miracle.

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, Dan said:

I get these circumstances are tricky but I've just seen Belgium make fairly light work of that Denmark side without Hazard & De Bruyne playing. We've caved in to fear again and now need 4 points from Belgium to go through. On that showing there's no way that's happening. If we lose in Brussels that's them winning the group bar a miracle.

And also dispatched of Iceland with ease without Eden Hazard or other midfield regulars (Tielemans) and a front-line including Batshuayi and Doku (18y/o).

The whole mentality was wrong in both games. I appreciate there's been some noticeable absences but there were still enough options to be more progressive and not so reserved in selection. The front 3 can only do so much if the rest of the team is so defensive-minded. 

[Dan+]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

And also dispatched of Iceland with ease without Eden Hazard or other midfield regulars (Tielemans) and a front-line including Batshuayi and Doku (18y/o).

The whole mentality was wrong in both games. I appreciate there's been some noticeable absences but there were still enough options to be more progressive and not so reserved in selection. The front 3 can only do so much if the rest of the team is so defensive-minded. 

That's a good point, they've thrashed Iceland while we've beaten them on the virtue of being given a very dubious late penalty, as well as them then going on to miss one!!! (Which I also thought was a quite dubious call for what it's worth).

Southgate's becoming like the rest of them, just too much fear. England's squad is better than Denmark's. That yesterday from an attacking sense was pathetic.

[Smiley Culture]

I remain completely fine with these two results. It’s certainly not worth the reaction it’s been given and I maintain that football fans have become as, if not more, knee-jerk and reactionary than chairmen of clubs and the abuse Southgate has taken and shouts for Eddie Howe to take over are ridiculous. I think it’s the whole “club over country” thing too and people like to beat England when they can, certainly when it’s not a tournament. 

With less friendly games now due to the addition of another nation to the group, taking it from three teams to four in a group, I wonder if Southgate and maybe others are going to use some of these games as extensions to friendlies now? As bad as International friendlies are to watch, I think there’s definitely a place for them and the reduction and increase in the Nations League may be good for UEFA’s pockets, I do think it could have a detrimental effect on the tournament itself if some nations aren’t going to take it seriously. 

I also think that this Nations League campaign probably should have been postponed anyway. When you consider the short turnaround and lack of a “pre-season” upon returning from lockdown for La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and Premier League in the 19/20 season ending and the 20/21 season starting, some teams were in domestic European games up to August, and the effects a season is going to have on players, especially those in the Premier League where they’re still scheduling 38 games, the FA Cup, League Cup and those of a certain level are going to play in the Europa League and/or the Champions League, I think Southgate, much like a domestic manager, is going to have to juggle players around a bit to try and ensure that he has the best possible team for when he needs it, which in Southgate’s case is next summer for the Euros. Granted, he won’t get the buy in from managers to start testing key players at the end of next season but by him treating the Nations League as an extension to the limited amount of friendlies England get to play, he can chuck on Connor Coady, Jack Grealish, Kal Phillips, Ainsley Naitland-Miles, Phil Foden and Mason Greenwood and see what they can do in a International environment for England.

I think, certainly for the Denmark game, given the absentees, a defensive outlook was always going to be the case. Without Maguire, Chilwell, Henderson and Rashford, you’d expect at least 3/4 to start if fit/selected, and without Foden and Greenwood for hammering some Icelandic women and taking into account what was left in the England side to choose from and the attacking threat in Denmark’s squad, I think it was probably the right decision to line up how we did. I would have probably made two changes to the XI picked myself but I think there was probably enough there to attempt to hit Denmark on the counter and as the game wore on, bring on your Grealish’s and Mount’s if necessary. 

 

[Dan+]

If it was about fierce club over country then I'd be pretty apathetic and probably not even have commented in the thread at all. I don't want Eddie Howe either and I do think it's worth remembering that this job isn't anywhere near as attractive as it once was. It doesn't pay massively and there's a lot more to lose than gain. The fact Sean Dyche would have legitimate reasons for turning it down says it all about international football. It's not just England either. You look collectively at even the top international sides and I see so few great coaches. Roberto Martinez managing the number 1 ranked side in the world says a lot.

This particular Nations League should've been abandoned. I'm not against the idea of the Nations League, it's a better idea than friendlies without a doubt but it's still in its infancy, I don't think people would kick off if this particular one had been scrapped.

I'd just personally have started a Grealish, or Mount, I just can't get on board with playing that many defensive minded players, it invited trouble and it resulted in the dreadful game it was bound to be. I'm annoyed at myself for not backing 0-0 as I called it the minute I saw our team.

[The Käiser]

7 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

I’d argue that’s fine that teams are treating these two games as Friendlies given the extraordinary circumstances we find ourselves in as a sport and I expect that the October games will have, certainly from an England perspective when players are hopefully back from injury, a higher intensity and competitive nature to them. 

But haven’t played also been off for 4 months?  
these are professional players all they do is play.  2 games will destroy them? I don’t think so

its funny when a team gets more time off pundits say it’s good so they have time to heal/analyze/practice And be fresh for the next game

while others claim time off is not good cuz there is rust/not as sharp

which is it?  Depends if u win or lose it seems

italy v Netherlands was a good example.  Italy came out pressing hard from the opening whistle.  And got a deserved win. Played a lot more of their regular team. 
many of whom haven’t played since serie a finished a month ago. 

 

[Smiley Culture]

4 minutes ago, Dan said:

If it was about fierce club over country then I'd be pretty apathetic and probably not even have commented in the thread at all. I don't want Eddie Howe either and I do think it's worth remembering that this job isn't anywhere near as attractive as it once was. It doesn't pay massively and there's a lot more to lose than gain. The fact Sean Dyche would have legitimate reasons for turning it down says it all about international football. It's not just England either. You look collectively at even the top international sides and I see so few great coaches. Roberto Martinez managing the number 1 ranked side in the world says a lot.

This particular Nations League should've been abandoned. I'm not against the idea of the Nations League, it's a better idea than friendlies without a doubt but it's still in its infancy, I don't think people would kick off if this particular one had been scrapped.

I'd just personally have started a Grealish, or Mount, I just can't get on board with playing that many defensive minded players, it invited trouble and it resulted in the dreadful game it was bound to be. I'm annoyed at myself for not backing 0-0 as I called it the minute I saw our team.

That’s lovely but there’s definitely a culture in this country of slagging off England at any given opportunity when it’s not a tournament and then as soon as it’s the World Cup or Euros, having your iPhone in one hand recording, while you lob a pint up in the air with your other hand, drowning your Sports Direct “Gazza 19” shirt in cheap lager.

 

[Smiley Culture]

2 minutes ago, The Käiser said:

But haven’t played also been off for 4 months?  
these are professional players all they do is play.  2 games will destroy them? I don’t think so

its funny when a team gets more time off pundits say it’s good so they have time to heal/analyze/practice And be fresh for the next game

while others claim time off is not good cuz there is rust/not as sharp

which is it?  Depends if u win or lose it seems

italy v Netherlands was a good example.  Italy came out pressing hard from the opening whistle.  And got a deserved win. Played a lot more of their regular team. 
many of whom haven’t played since serie a finished a month ago. 

 

Four months of largely training at home, which is not the same intensity as ordinary training, anything up to about 15-18 games in such a short space of time after that, a couple of weeks off (if they were lucky) and then back to it again with these games. 

[The Käiser]

2 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

Four months of largely training at home, which is not the same intensity as ordinary training, anything up to about 15-18 games in such a short space of time after that, a couple of weeks off (if they were lucky) and then back to it again with these games. 

Well the premier league And other leagues came back in July and run for a month. 

so they haven’t been off for 4 months straight 

also Ligue 1 abandoned play back in March and yet psg and Lyon had great runs in the champions league in August.  The lay-off was not bad for them or that they needed time to get back to a rhythm. 

Usually leagues end in may and start up in August. So the difference is comparable. No?

 

[Smiley Culture]

58 minutes ago, The Käiser said:

Well the premier league And other leagues came back in July and run for a month. 

so they haven’t been off for 4 months straight 

also Ligue 1 abandoned play back in March and yet psg and Lyon had great runs in the champions league in August.  The lay-off was not bad for them or that they needed time to get back to a rhythm. 

Usually leagues end in may and start up in August. So the difference is comparable. No?

 

The difference isn’t comparable as there’s more than a couple of weeks for pre-season under normal circumstances. Most clubs barely got a few weeks to prepare again. 

I’ve no idea on how Covid has gone in France and when people, especially sports teams, could or couldn’t do things. It’s likely to be different to the UK though. 

[The Käiser]

1 hour ago, Smiley Culture said:

The difference isn’t comparable as there’s more than a couple of weeks for pre-season under normal circumstances. Most clubs barely got a few weeks to prepare again. 

I’ve no idea on how Covid has gone in France and when people, especially sports teams, could or couldn’t do things. It’s likely to be different to the UK though. 

So the start of the premier league will not be high caliber?  

but what I’m saying that the league ended just over a month ago, there’s been some Friendies and training camps so I don’t think there should be that much rust on the players. 

that’s my opinion as these guys are professional. That’s all they do. Training for hours a day. 
 

bundesliga ended by start of July and Bayern started champions league in August.  Was there lack of sharpness?  If they lost I’m sure they would say yes. 
 

[Smiley Culture]

12 minutes ago, The Käiser said:

So the start of the premier league will not be high caliber?  

but what I’m saying that the league ended just over a month ago, there’s been some Friendies and training camps so I don’t think there should be that much rust on the players. 

that’s my opinion as these guys are professional. That’s all they do. Training for hours a day. 
 

bundesliga ended by start of July and Bayern started champions league in August.  Was there lack of sharpness?  If they lost I’m sure they would say yes. 
 

You’ve lost me. 

The Premier League start was high calibre, I’ve not argued it wasn’t. However, it was restarted off the back of a lengthy period of downtime in which players could only train at home, which isn’t as high intensity as a pre-season and had a couple of weeks to get near to the level pre-lockdown. It’s essentially the same now, players have had a few weeks off maximum and are restarting again, reducing the pre-season they’ll have again. 

[The Käiser]

18 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

You’ve lost me. 

The Premier League start was high calibre, I’ve not argued it wasn’t. However, it was restarted off the back of a lengthy period of downtime in which players could only train at home, which isn’t as high intensity as a pre-season and had a couple of weeks to get near to the level pre-lockdown. It’s essentially the same now, players have had a few weeks off maximum and are restarting again, reducing the pre-season they’ll have again. 

I’m lost as well.  You start by saying the league started in high caliber even though it had a lengthy layoff. 
Yet for nations league u r understanding of sides being slow and treating them as friendlies 

based on the league being high caliber after a long layoff, I’m saying why couldn’t the past nation league games be treated with more competitiveness in the same way?

the league did so and most likely will do again this weekend why couldn’t the nation league last weekend?  Some countries played the A squad and others treated the games as friendly by playing a mix bag of starters resulting in disappointing performances

[Smiley Culture]

53 minutes ago, The Käiser said:

I’m lost as well.  You start by saying the league started in high caliber even though it had a lengthy layoff. 
Yet for nations league u r understanding of sides being slow and treating them as friendlies 

based on the league being high caliber after a long layoff, I’m saying why couldn’t the past nation league games be treated with more competitiveness in the same way?

the league did so and most likely will do again this weekend why couldn’t the nation league last weekend?  Some countries played the A squad and others treated the games as friendly by playing a mix bag of starters resulting in disappointing performances

I’ve not said most of what you’ve said there. 

There’s been a very short turnaround for teams. There’s an International break very early into the new season. England have treated it as friendlies given the lack of friendlies, number of players unavailable and given there’s bigger things ahead. That’s fine. Others haven’t. That’s also fine. 

Genuinely not sure what’s hard to comprehend. 

[The Käiser]

4 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

I’ve not said most of what you’ve said there. 

There’s been a very short turnaround for teams. There’s an International break very early into the new season. England have treated it as friendlies given the lack of friendlies, number of players unavailable and given there’s bigger things ahead. That’s fine. Others haven’t. That’s also fine. 

Genuinely not sure what’s hard to comprehend. 

My original point was that the competition Nations League will lose value if managers treat them as friendly games.  

I believe u defended the managers decision to Treat  them as such cuz of a layoff.  Which is a lame excuse in my view. 

my point stands that interest will go down if they view and treat nation league as friendly. Might as well keep friendlies in the calendar then

like u said not hard to understand