American Politics Discussion

[Viva la FCB+]

4 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Jordan Klepper is great! He did the same with Anti-Vaxxers. 

 

Unavailable in my country damnit. I did see some clips of that though and he was interviewing people outside on Jan 6 before the storming. I think it was CNN that interviewed him a few days ago and showed some of that. It was a good interview either way, its just funny to see back and forth and logic thrown back at them, most of them arent used to any of that. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

@Eco @Cicero

can either of you explain this debt-ceiling debate that's going on in the senate? I know the democrats wanted to kill the filibuster (which I... also don't understand why that exists) to remove the debt-ceiling... but fellow democrat Joe Manchin refused (I also don't understand how this guy became the most powerful senator in America...)

What does that mean for the US if the debt-ceiling isn't raised? The US can't pay off its debts?

[Cicero]

22 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

@Eco @Cicero

can either of you explain this debt-ceiling debate that's going on in the senate? I know the democrats wanted to kill the filibuster (which I... also don't understand why that exists) to remove the debt-ceiling... but fellow democrat Joe Manchin refused (I also don't understand how this guy became the most powerful senator in America...)

What does that mean for the US if the debt-ceiling isn't raised? The US can't pay off its debts?

I would imagine the government would have to cut spending in a lot of areas just to balance it out.

I think it's inevitable at this point that there is going to be a raise in taxes, regardless if the debt-ceiling is raised or not. It's something the Biden Administration promised they wouldn't during their entire campaign but now it is looking like they don't have a choice considering they were spending money into an economy that's basically stagnating. 

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

I would imagine the government would have to cut spending in a lot of areas just to balance it out.

I think it's inevitable at this point that there is going to be a raise in taxes, regardless if the debt-ceiling is raised or not. It's something the Biden Administration promised they wouldn't during their entire campaign but now it is looking like they don't have a choice considering they were spending money into an economy that's basically stagnating. 

 

 

It would be some kind of remarkable spending cuts though, no? Because the current debt level doesn't really account for the recent budget that was passed or the next budgets.

It seems bizarre to me because I don't think the UK has a limit on how much debt it can incur. I looked into the debt ceiling and it only came into effect in the US during WW1 when America's isolationists wanted to try to cap the military spending (which, funnily enough... I can't imagine America ever willingly cutting back on military spending ever again).

I think taxes going up in the US was an inevitability really. I think the Biden administration did say they're looking at raising taxes on people making more than $400k a year - and really when we consider how low taxes are in the US and how many tax avoidance strategies are codified into US tax code (which is why we don't see too much about the US in the Pandora Papers) - I think going after those big earners makes a lot of sense. Looking at how the US's budget deficit ballooned after tax cuts for the wealthy and corporate tax cuts... it does seem logical. In a time where income inequality is rampant, it seems a bit weird that those at the upper end of the tax brackets pay so little in comparison.

But if the debt ceiling isn't raised and if they expect the US government to be able to operate as normal... I suspect that would mean a massive tax increase for pretty much everyone. And I don't think that will help the economy very much. The working class and middle class feeling a high pressure financial squeeze from taxes, inflation, and stagnant wages will further shrink the economy.

So I really hope they do get rid of this idea of the debt ceiling. It seems like an unnecessary creation that was first put in place for reasons that most people in the US government would laugh at now - and it's just being used as a way for one party to hold the economy hostage.

As far as US taxes go, I'm all for raising taxes on people making $400k a year... and for raising corporate tax rates. But I do hope that Biden raises the SALT deduction cap that the last administration massively lowered of... because that was an absolute bullshit way to raise taxes on certain states for no real good reason & it absolutely fucked me (and many other people here). And I don't think people in states that have higher state tax rates that allow those states to provide services (in lieu of receiving federal funds for similar services) should be subsidising the states that receive federal funds for the same services they should probably be providing on their own... Probably shouldn't complain though, my tax liability here is substantially less than what it would be in the UK because of the US's silly tax rules.

[Eco]

Texas is having themselves one hell of a year. 

First, it was their abortion law, which made it illegal for women to have an abortion after cardiac activity was detected, which is around six weeks and OFTEN occurs before a woman knows she is in fact, pregnant. And to keep this in fact, they have 'deputized' citizens to self clinics or women going about an abortion and then legal action will be taken. 

Now, they are requiring schools to provide books to their kids on each side of the argument on what they deem is a 'controversial' topic. This seems like a good idea personally, as I enjoy looking at both sides myself, however, in a record from a school's meeting, a 'controversial topic is....the holocaust. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/teachers-told-offer-books-opposing-180003000.html

Quote

Teachers told to offer books with 'opposing' Holocaust views

Fri, October 15, 2021, 2:00 PM

SOUTHLAKE, Texas (AP) — A Texas school district administrator told teachers that if they have books about the Holocaust in their classrooms, they should also have books that offer “opposing” or “other” viewpoints on the subject.

Gina Peddy, the executive director of curriculum and instruction for the Carroll Independent School District in Southlake, which is in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, issued the directive last week during a training session about which books teachers can have in their classroom libraries. A staff member secretly made an audio recording of the training session and shared it with NBC News, which broke the story. 

In the recording, Peddy told the teachers to remember a new Texas law that requires teachers to present multiple perspectives when discussing “widely debated and currently controversial” issues. She said: “And make sure that if you have a book on the Holocaust, that you have one that has an opposing, that has other perspectives.”

“How do you oppose the Holocaust?” one teacher asked.

“Believe me,” Peddy said. “That’s come up.”

 

Sometimes I'm reminded of this feeling I've had since I was a kid, which is I don't belong here. Texas, the state that loves Trump, guns, walls, and pretending they are bigger than the country as a whole. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Is this a law or just what this one Texas school administrator is interpreting the law to mean? Because the Holocaust isn't a controversial topic from the point of view of educators or academics.

I can't say I'm surprised though. Doesn't Texas make it so evolution must also be taught in tandem with creationism? And I don't think they're the only state with that requirement. The American right has decided to take a pretty anti-academic approach to education - I think it's dangerous and scary tbh.

If this is an actual law and not just a faulty interpretation of a woman who will shortly be replaced in her job... it doesn't bode well for hoping that the next generation of Texans don't have an alarming number of radical extremists within their ranks.

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Is this a law or just what this one Texas school administrator is interpreting the law to mean? Because the Holocaust isn't a controversial topic from the point of view of educators or academics.

I can't say I'm surprised though. Doesn't Texas make it so evolution must also be taught in tandem with creationism? And I don't think they're the only state with that requirement. The American right has decided to take a pretty anti-academic approach to education - I think it's dangerous and scary tbh.

If this is an actual law and not just a faulty interpretation of a woman who will shortly be replaced in her job... it doesn't bode well for hoping that the next generation of Texans don't have an alarming number of radical extremists within their ranks.

Fair point. The Article says it's a 'directive', so not a law. 

[nudge+]

...wow. So are they going to include Mein Kampf in the curriculum?... Madness.

Also, if it's the law, I hope they are consistent and also teach Cold War from the side of the Russians and the history of America from the perspective of indigenous people.

[Dr. Gonzo]

There are lots of instances where I think people in the US (and honestly, not just the US - the UK too, but probably all around the world) should learn "both sides" of "the story."

But not the fucking Holocaust, where we've got so much factual proof it happened and the best arguments made for Holocaust denial usually amount to: "yOu BeLiEvE tHe JeWs?! tHeY rUn tHe WoRlD!!!!! iT iS jEw LiEs!" like that dumb vegan Nazi cunt Kel.

We shouldn't hold blind bigotry as having the same weight as factual evidence - Texas (or this administrator - I dunno how this law/directive works) is playing with fire here. Teaching conspiratorial bigoted bullshit as though it's worthy of being taught in an academic environment is how you end up with a bunch of dangerous and radical extremists in future generations.

[Eco]

Just now, nudge said:

...wow. So are they going to include Mein Kampf in the curriculum?... Madness.

Also, if it's the law, I hope they are consistent and also teach Cold War from the side of the Russians and the history of America from the perspective of indigenous people.

Absolutely. Hell, include a proper education into WWII and instead of touting America has the dominant force that won the war, talk about the countries who's land it was fought on, who had to constantly protect their citizens while also attacking, not just flying over a pond and attacking from afar. 

[nudge+]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

There are lots of instances where I think people in the US (and honestly, not just the US - the UK too, but probably all around the world) should learn "both sides" of "the story."

But not the fucking Holocaust, where we've got so much factual proof it happened and the best arguments made for Holocaust denial usually amount to: "yOu BeLiEvE tHe JeWs?! tHeY rUn tHe WoRlD!!!!! iT iS jEw LiEs!" like that dumb vegan Nazi cunt Kel.

We shouldn't hold blind bigotry as having the same weight as factual evidence - Texas (or this administrator - I dunno how this law/directive works) is playing with fire here. Teaching conspiratorial bigoted bullshit as though it's worthy of being taught in an academic environment is how you end up with a bunch of dangerous and radical extremists in future generations.

Yeah, learning that there are more sides to a story and being able to explore them is great, especially for developing critical thinking skills. We had that approach at my school as well when I was a kid. But as you said, not for those topics where the "other side" is ramblings of some maniac at best and hateful ideology at worst. 

[Eco]

I wonder if Flat Earth Theory will be taught. Certainly THAT is more controversial than the Holocaust 

[nudge+]

9 minutes ago, Eco said:

I wonder if Flat Earth Theory will be taught. Certainly THAT is more controversial than the Holocaust 

Evolution vs Creationism too. Wait, are they even allowed to teach Evolution in Texas schools?  

[Eco]

Just now, nudge said:

Evolution vs Creationism too. Wait, are they even alowed to teach Evolution in Texas schools?  

Darwin is probably on the Banned Book List. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

12 minutes ago, nudge said:

Evolution vs Creationism too. Wait, are they even allowed to teach Evolution in Texas schools?  

So I googled this, because I remember learning when Texas required both to be taught in schools. But that's an older law. They used to require both evolution and creationism both taught at schools not too long ago.

Numerous court cases later and nowadays Texas educators can now leave creationism off the curriculum. Most of their schools don't teach creationism, but schools can teach it if they want to - but they have to also teach evolution as well (so probably religious schools do teach it).

It's crazy they teach shit from the bible in biology lessons though, even if most teachers don't, the fact that some of them do... and the state was once required to teach both in biology is... it's just bizarre 

Makes me wonder what the fuck is going on in other states... because Texas is actually pretty close to evenly split between its right wing and its left wing - so I imagine there's far more backwards states out there that want to have far more backwards educational platforms.

[Beelzebub]

Show both sides of Tom and Jerry. Jerry was a prick

[Beelzebub]

Buckhead district of Atlanta the most affluent area of the city making 40% of the tax base is calling for seceding from the rest of the city forming a city itself, due to high rates of crime. 

[Guest]

I was watching this documentary about trump last night. Some of the things he has done are terrible. It said about the trump university and his money that was linked to finding Iranian terrorists. Hes has corrupt as they come. He shouldnt have been allowed to be president 

[Waylander]

Well you always need to look at who made the documentary and who funded it to know if they are likley to be objective.

There was that whole media drive about Trump and Russian links as soon as he became president yet he has faced no serious prosecution and it has faded away.

I thought Trump was finished yet my brother thinks he will be the main contender next time in 2024.

I thought not yet see from alternative media he is still on the road and talking about 2024. 

It is very hard to know what is next and Biden is not seen to be performing well as a leader and the Afghan pull out has damaged him too.

 

 

 

 

[Inverted]

Maybe Texas should teach both sides of their own independence story?

Namely, that the founding Texans were slavedriving outlaws and traitors, and Santa Anna was the good guy. 

 

[Stan]

Colin Powell has died of 'COVID complications' at the age of 84. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 hours ago, Stan said:

Colin Powell has died of 'COVID complications' at the age of 84. 

I think it's weird the media's sort of tried to make him seem like a somewhat sympathetic figure because he later made statements indicating he felt a bit bad about lying to bring the US and UK into an illegal war that killed over a million Iraqis.

I don't think he should get a pass because he felt bad about those actions. His whole career is tied into 40+ years of questionable US foreign policy - he's not defined by him stating the fact that he used shit intelligence (that was likely manufactured by the administration he worked for) to lie to the world in support of a war that didn't just fuck up Iraq... but sent the whole region into chaos. He should be defined by the totality of his career.

It's a shame that neither he nor Rumsfeld got to face any real justice for being war criminals. None of them will and without any accountability for the Iraq War... something similar is bound to happen again in the future.

[Panflute]

14 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think it's weird the media's sort of tried to make him seem like a somewhat sympathetic figure because he later made statements indicating he felt a bit bad about lying to bring the US and UK into an illegal war that killed over a million Iraqis.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Reminded me of when the media tried to sanitize George W. Bush by sharing quirky photos of him and emphasizing how much he opposed Trump.

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 hours ago, Panflute said:

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Reminded me of when the media tried to sanitize George W. Bush by sharing quirky photos of him and emphasizing how much he opposed Trump.

Remember when they tried to humanise him by showing off how he had taken up painting after meeting so many US soldiers he'd given PTSD to by sending them to war for no reason?

It was bizarre.

[Beelzebub]

Trump has announced he'll release his own social media platform.