League A - Group A2 Fixtures - 11-14th September, 2020

[Bluewolf]

Thought that was going in... great save

[Stan]

Yes Kasper  

 

[Lucas]

11 minutes ago, Bluewolf said:

To be fair as you pointed out he has a had a mare of a season so far... can't seem to do anything right, although he might need dropping would that do more harm than good?? having said that you can't stick with a player that clearly does not have his head in the right place or like tonight it can prove costly for the side.. 

Look at John Stones. Absolutely ruined from the public bashing's he's received. I doubt we'll see him play again for England. You know how this country can get with it's own players mate, savage.

Maguire has too much on his plate right now. His club's in turmoil, which he is the captain of, so he's getting it left, right and centre there.

You don't know how much the Greece incident has played a part or what else is going on regarding it in the background.

Either way, he is troubled right now, playing terribly and I think it needs someone of seniority such as Southgate, to take him out the firing line.

He shouldn't be in the squad on merit anyway so bringing him in when he's in the worst form of his life really needs answers anyway but that's another story.

[Lucas]

In what's been a pretty bleak night, Reece James has had a good debut I thought.

Looked like he's been playing for England for while, he's looked that comfortable.

Him and Trent are going to have a great battle for that spot going forward.

[Stan]

I know we were a man down but that was pretty turgid from the start.

[Bluewolf]

A decent effort considering we were down one but not enough thanks to you know who... 

Maguire.. a bloke who is currently so useless for club and country he couldn't empty water from a welly boot with the instructions on the sole... 

[Pyfish+]

1 hour ago, Lucas said:

What on earth made you put that on?? 

Fair play but still...

I don't know really. I saw him during the anthems and just had an inkling he would make some sort of stupid error and get sent off. And then when he did that stupid tackle for his first yellow I knew I was quids in.

[Dan+]

We can't piss this generation away on Southgate. We no doubt will.

[Lucas]

I made no comment after the Belgium game because for me, I felt it papered over the cracks but Southgate is trying to persevere with a system I don't think we're comfortable playing, not to mention, making some really questionable calls when it comes to starting elevens.

This 3 centre backs thing has got to go, we don't even have 3 top quality centre backs to play it. Should stick to what we are comfortable with.

Stop playing two defensive mids, that is twice we have done that now against the same team who literally offer nothing going forward. Surprise surprise we have blanked twice as a result.

I don't really understand why certain players are being picked when they are not performing for their clubs.

Or even why players play out of position and yet he will get very defensive if someone asks why a certain individual wasn't played because he doesn't play there for his club.

The disciplinary thing is becoming a bit of a joke now but I can't help but feel it shows we have a weak leader also. Do they respect him? You'd have to question it surely.

I don't want to go all in on him because he's a nice bloke and has had his moments but overall there is a whiff that he's taken us as far as he can.

He should at least be open to changing the shape of the team I think. Being stubborn will get him no where.

 

[Dan+]

1 hour ago, Lucas said:

£80m English pounds  Ok, that's my pisstake out the way.

Look, he's had a terrible few months and it's far too easy to jump on the bandwagon and bash him, it's like hurting a wounded puppy.

Far be it from me to defend a United player but mentally, this guy is facing all sorts of challenges. This is without doubt his most challenging period to overcome.

I think the best thing Solskjaer and Southgate could do right now is leave him out the limelight for a bit.

Any defensive error/mistake and all eyes are on him, he can't seem to deal with it right now.

Give him a rest for a few games and a chance to reset because he's walking out of the frying pan into the fire on a consistent basis. Needs a break.

I find it baffling how he's become seemingly undroppable at club and international level. He's been dire for a long time now. When we sold him I never thought he was an eighty million defender but he's regressed since leaving us if anything.

I agree with you. He needs some time out, I wouldn't play him until after the next international break, for club or country, unless desperate. Get him out the limelight.

[Smiley Culture]

Not seen the game in its entirety and have only seen a few key moments but a couple of points;

- It’s not easy going down to ten men. It’s even harder against a well organised side, like Denmark are. 

- I agree with the calls to take some flak off Maguire. He’s had very little downtime away from the game anyway, given United we’re playing in the Europa Semi’s and then his holiday was turned into an episode of Banged Up Abroad and then he’s been chucked back into things for United and England. I won’t speculate on whether he has mental health issues but if there’s any signs he actually does, he needs some rest. 

- I think we’re in a good place as an England team. There are very few nailed on places in this England side these days, unlike previous sides we’ve had and we’ve got levels of depth that are, frankly, unheard of in the England side. 
 

- The defeat here needs no public inquest despite the FIFA generation most likely setting themselves and demanding Southgate is sacked behind their @GrealishIzABaller twitter account. The Nations League is designed for games like this and England need games like this. 

- We better not arrange a friendly before the last two games in this. It’s a pointless exercise and the players, who by then will have more Premier League games and most likely European games,  should just be given a few days rest before the two games. 

[RandoEFC+]

1 hour ago, Lucas said:

Look at John Stones. Absolutely ruined from the public bashing's he's received. 

This is a myth. John Stones wasn't ruined by anything because he wasn't actually a good defender in the first place. He had half a good season at Everton that coincided with the Pep to City rumours, the media jizzed their pants over Pep nurturing the next Rio Ferdinand so much that even after 18 months of average or worse performances for Everton, City still paid £50m for him, he had ample chances to establish himself in their first team. I bet nobody here can name a single performance in his time there where he's really looked world class. I dare anyone to think of one performance. Oh hang on, he probably did alright when they beat Watford 9-0, fair enough.

Did Pickford do something daft again tonight besides mishitting a free kick at the end? Or is he trending 4th for the UK on Twitter because the T-Rex arms banter virgins are so bored tonight that mishitting a free kick is enough to set them off on one of their hilarious circle jerks again? The lad's cripplingly short of form at club level but to be fair to Southgate, Pope isn't exactly setting the world alight himself so far this season and Henderson isn't even getting a game at the moment.

[UNORTHODOX]

Watching England play is a form of mental torture. So boring and uninspiring.

[Danny]

Clearly if Maguire is suffering mental health issues that needs to be handled by his team and club and they need to look after him.

But in terms of performances, Maguire has never been a particularly great centre back. The only reason he’s been picked ahead of the rest is his ability to run the ball out and pass. These things will happen time and time again because a player who should be at Leicester or Everton is at Old Trafford.

Bale and Van Dijk went for as much as Maguire did (maybe less?) and he’s simply not at their level

[RandoEFC+]

Also, they were talking at the end of the game about the discipline in the England side at the moment. You do have to question whether Southgate has overdone with quite how many very young players he's brought into the fold. Obviously footballers usually get away with acting irresponsibly but with Covid hanging about you're more likely to get called out on breaking rules and protocol because it's such a sensitive issue.

Greenwood and Foden were in trouble not long ago at all. Sancho, Abraham and the others got in hot water this time, Reece James got himself sent off after the whistle, Maguire was in trouble over the summer and that's one of the senior players.

With so many young players in the squad it makes me wonder why someone like Henderson is reduced to a bit part role. He's a better player than Rice in my opinion. If you think they're similar then I'll accept your opinion but Rice isn't a better player. You'd have Henderson in there every time for his stabilising influence. Rice is still young and Phillips is new to the international setup, that's a lot of inexperience.

People have been joking all week about Southgate bumming Mason Mount. I don't think that's the most egregious example at all, you could make a case for him or for Grealish, but it does seem that Southgate likes to give a lot of responsibility to the younger lads, which is generally fine, but you can take it too far. At first it seemed like a case of trusting the players he'd worked with in the youth teams but he has continued to do it with this next generation. He's not responsible for their behaviour off the pitch and it's easy to say in hindsight but there's not a lot of proper senior players in that squad. Probably got Kane, Sterling, Walker, Henderson, Maguire. Sterling isn't with the squad, Maguire is having a meltdown, Kane hasn't been fully fit for these games and Henderson is apparently below Rice and Phillips in the pecking order. I just think this is an area that they all need to sort out.

[RandoEFC+]

Just now, Danny said:

These things will happen time and time again because a player who should be at Leicester or Everton is at Old Trafford.

This is the thing. I wouldn't have him at Everton over Holgate or even Michael Keane. Leicester fans don't miss him. I might be being biased but I really don't think there's that much in it. Maguire is another one of those players like John Stones where every individual you talk to agrees that they're not as good as they're perceived to be or not worth their transfer fee or whatever but the prevailing wisdom between journalists and the invisible hive mind of social media disagree with you so profoundly and in such numbers that you just shrug and assume you must be missing something. A couple of years later you realise you weren't missing anything at all.

[Dan+]

Maitland-Niles starting at left back too. How is that a better choice than Saka?

[Smiley Culture]

Fucking hell, English football fans are awful. Eddie Howe trending on Twitter because people want the best English manager in near on thirty years sacked and replaced by a bloke who wasn’t adaptable, wouldn’t change his tactics and conceded something like 180+ goals in the last three seasons in the Premier League. Shocking. 

[Lucas]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

This is a myth. John Stones wasn't ruined by anything because he wasn't actually a good defender in the first place. He had half a good season at Everton that coincided with the Pep to City rumours, the media jizzed their pants over Pep nurturing the next Rio Ferdinand so much that even after 18 months of average or worse performances for Everton, City still paid £50m for him, he had ample chances to establish himself in their first team. I bet nobody here can name a single performance in his time there where he's really looked world class. I dare anyone to think of one performance. Oh hang on, he probably did alright when they beat Watford 9-0, fair enough.

You are looking for the wrong arguement.

Before you jumped all over that like a tramp on chips, I'm not saying John Stones was necessarily an international class defender to begin with. If anything, I agree he was overrated like Maguire. But we have to acknowledge he was in the England set up regularly regardless of what you, or I think.

What I am saying though, which I think is truth, is that he has been so hounded across the media for club and country that it would be naive to think its not affected him mentally and shot him to pieces. 

And I used Stones as an example because I see the same thing happening with Maguire now. I think it's up to the retrospective managers to take him out the spotlight now and help him out.

[Lucas]

32 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Fucking hell, English football fans are awful. Eddie Howe trending on Twitter because people want the best English manager in near on thirty years sacked and replaced by a bloke who wasn’t adaptable, wouldn’t change his tactics and conceded something like 180+ goals in the last three seasons in the Premier League. Shocking. 

Yeah, I think we can all wholeheartedly agree he is not the answer.

Although, I think I would have him as an England U21 manager over Bothroyd. I could see him working well with our youngsters.

I just don't know whether he would see that role as beneath him now having managed in the Premier League for 5 seasons or whatever it was.

[Smiley Culture]

15 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Yeah, I think we can all wholeheartedly agree he is not the answer.

Although, I think I would have him as an England U21 manager over Bothroyd. I could see him working well with our youngsters.

I just don't know whether he would see that role as beneath him now having managed in the Premier League for 5 seasons or whatever it was.

I wouldn’t have him close to the England set-up in all honesty. I think he’s vastly overrated due to being English and if genuinely think that if he was from mainland Europe, he’d have been called out for his woeful inability to stop Bournemouth’s annual collapses, his stubbornness to change and shut up shop when needed and his inability to organise a defence three years ago. I think much like we see with our players, we blow smoke up their arses far too early, off far too short a period of good performances.

I find it hard to believe Boothroyd is U21 manager and has done it for a while now. I always found him to be a woeful manager at League One and Two level, maybe he’s a great coach but I would not have had him down as a manager of an England age group. 

 

[RandoEFC+]

6 hours ago, Lucas said:

You are looking for the wrong arguement.

Before you jumped all over that like a tramp on chips, I'm not saying John Stones was necessarily an international class defender to begin with. If anything, I agree he was overrated like Maguire. But we have to acknowledge he was in the England set up regularly regardless of what you, or I think.

What I am saying though, which I think is truth, is that he has been so hounded across the media for club and country that it would be naive to think its not affected him mentally and shot him to pieces. 

And I used Stones as an example because I see the same thing happening with Maguire now. I think it's up to the retrospective managers to take him out the spotlight now and help him out.

Disagreeing with something doesn't have to be "jumping all over it". You're insinuating that I'm responding through some sort of agenda. No regular poster on this forum has watched John Stones' development more closely than me. It's simply a discussion we're having...

I really don't think Stones has ever had it that bad in terms of hounding. Not as bad as Maguire is getting currently. Sterling and Joe Hart are other recent examples of what I'd call being hounded in the way you describe.

With Stones I just don't think you can put his average performances down to media pressure because he's always been average. I actually think he's slipped out of the picture pretty quietly.

[ScoRoss]

10 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

- We better not arrange a friendly before the last two games in this. It’s a pointless exercise and the players, who by then will have more Premier League games and most likely European games,  should just be given a few days rest before the two games. 

Don't think it's up to the individual FAs to decide this. UEFA have stipulated that if there is a international match day, that teams have to have a game. Obviously these internationals have been even more demanding with three games each because of the rearranged Qualifying Playoffs.

[DeadLinesman]

10 hours ago, Danny said:

Bale and Van Dijk went for as much as Maguire did (maybe less?) and he’s simply not at their level

Why are you throwing Bale into that argument? It was a transfer made 7 years ago for a midfielder .
 

[Smiley Culture]

13 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Don't think it's up to the individual FAs to decide this. UEFA have stipulated that if there is a international match day, that teams have to have a game. Obviously these internationals have been even more demanding with three games each because of the rearranged Qualifying Playoffs.

That’s absolutely ridiculous this year of all years.