The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I know a lot of Liverpool fans who are decent, good people who really believe in the Shankly ethos of the club but I think it’s time the club stopped referring to him and making money off the back of his values. They are clearly so far removed from what he was and Liverpool once was. A shame but the club is one of the worst culprits, with success comes consequence suppose. Same happened to Barcelona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said: Funny how much Liverpool owners and Manchester United owners buzz off each other. I’m all for mutual respect but this lot seem to be bosom buddies. It's because they're American billionaires. They're the vulture class that sits on top of the social pyramid in the West and people like that are greedy beyond boundaries, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas 3,825 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 If this happened, it actually wouldn't surprise me if it created a window of opportunity for Celtic and Rangers to join the Premier League as replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Good riddance. Let's see how many fans Manchester United have when they swap 10 away wins in a row for 2 away wins all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Lucas said: If this happened, it actually wouldn't surprise me if it created a window of opportunity for Celtic and Rangers to join the Premier League as replacements. Tbf they are bigger than most English clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said: Good riddance. Let's see how many fans Manchester United have when they swap 10 away wins in a row for 2 away wins all season. You must be gutted Leeds came up. You’d still be the third biggest United if we left, after them and Sheffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 You can see who’s actually read that link and who hasn’t from the reactions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, DeadLinesman said: You must be gutted Leeds came up. You’d still be the third biggest United if we left, after them and Sheffield Harsh on West Ham that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 A team forced out of their own city by war have beaten Real Madrid without 10+ players ruled out through Covid. It’s stuff like this that needs to end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: A team forced out of their own city by war have beaten Real Madrid without 10+ players ruled out through Covid. It’s stuff like this that needs to end The Champions League was created to stop that sort of club. Let’s lot forget until Chelsea bought their way to success, Bucharest and Belgrade had more success than London on the biggest stage. London is not a football city, similar to Paris. You don’t get your real big football clubs from cities like London and Paris. They don’t have that culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: The Champions League was created to stop that sort of club. Let’s lot forget until Chelsea bought their way to success, Bucharest and Belgrade had more success than London on the biggest stage. London is not a football city, similar to Paris. You don’t get your real big football clubs from cities like London and Paris. They don’t have that culture. London won more Cup Winners’ Cups than most countries did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: London won more Cup Winners’ Cups than most countries did. Like being proud of being the milk monitor in school. Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow are the British football cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 To say London isn’t a football city is genuinely mental considering the third biggest club in the country is from London. And then it is peppered with mid-bigish clubs like Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham...then verging on the likes of Palace, Charlton. Then think about away days, consistently some of the best stadiums in the country were or are in London...Highbury, White Hart Lane, WHL#2, Stamford Bridge, Upton Park, Craven Cottage...even in the lower leagues, Griffin Park is pretty much in every game going Championship fans top 3 away days. Let’s not mention the amount of players come through London clubs, or the overwhelming talent that is currently coming through from London or it’s clubs scouting. Clearly though Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester hold the biggest clubs in Britain, you’d also be mental to argue that. In fact a comparison with Paris is off the mark, Paris doesn’t have nearly the footballing history London has and yet it is completely similar in size and stature globally. But it is difficult in a city like London to localise every thing around one sport/entity, it’s a mega city and what it offers and how it consumes people is completely different to smaller cities around the country. Look at Newcastle being a one club city, a small city really, but the city revolves around St. James Park like it has its own gravitational pull. That sort of intensity is difficult to match in London because there are so many different things and interests going on. A city built on immigration in a way that is unparalleled in this country, which has a massive effect on match going fans, especially when racism is taken into account and you can watch a team that best represents you on a tv screen instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 39 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Like being proud of being the milk monitor in school. Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow are the British football cities. Aye, imagine being proud of winning a European competition. Must be terrible and shouldn’t be looked upon with anything other than disgust. I’d recommend not doing the internet when you’ve had a drink next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Arsenal did not sell out a European cup final only last year. Sorry but the way football is followed in the cities I talk about is very different. In a way that’s to London’s benefit, it’s a bigger city with more going on. But it just is not a football city like the three I mention. Arsenal are not a European giant of a club like Liverpool or Manchester United and that comes from the culture of where they’re from. They are institutions vital to the identity of that city, the same as Celtic and Rangers. No London club has anything like that intensity and identity. I know Londoners like to think they are the centre of everything ever but sorry in terms of football, you’re very much a backwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said: Aye, imagine being proud of winning a European competition. Must be terrible and shouldn’t be looked upon with anything other than disgust. I’d recommend not doing the internet when you’ve had a drink next time. Not at all. It’s a big thing for any club but comparing it to achievements of actual giants is ridiculous. No London club is anywhere near the list of European greats. Anyway, money is the main thing now so I’m sure the London clubs will see themselves moved up the greasy pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Not at all. It’s a big thing for any club but comparing it to achievements of actual giants is ridiculous. Not every club can (or has to) be big? Even amongst some of the big British clubs you've listed... only one of them is really a European giant as well (sorry Celtic fans, you might have been up there with us as well if not for the lack of parity between Scottish and English football). It seems weird to me to say that London isn't a football city... London's got more football clubs than any city I know of, all up and down the football pyramid. There's clubs of all sizes in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said: Not at all. It’s a big thing for any club but comparing it to achievements of actual giants is ridiculous. No London club is anywhere near the list of European greats. Anyway, money is the main thing now so I’m sure the London clubs will see themselves moved up the greasy pole. How do you think United sustained their domestic dominance that propelled them to the same heights as Liverpool if not money? They helped kickstart the era of greed, architects of capitalism in football. But they’re not a London club so... And referencing Arsenals final...there were a number of issues there, midweek game in a competition that is not the great competition it used to be, in Azerbaijan. Following years of decay in the league, under a manager who was out of his depth and an underwhelming follow on from Wenger...I’m sure you would have been as critical of Liverpool under Hodgson where they struggled to sell Anfield out in the Europa League, twice hitting attendances at the 25k mark during the group stages and qualifying stages. But again clearly those cities hold the biggest clubs, and tbh, Glasgow is a city in its own league in the UK. It’s far too similar to Madrid, another capital that shouldn’t have the dominance it does. Glasgow’s is built out of colonialism, Madrid’s is doping. Edit: Comparing Madrid to other capital cities like Paris, Berlin, Rome...not Glasgow, that dominance is built on hatred that goes well beyond football and local rivalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Not every club can (or has to) be big? Even amongst some of the big British clubs you've listed... only one of them is really a European giant as well (sorry Celtic fans, you might have been up there with us as well if not for the lack of parity between Scottish and English football). It seems weird to me to say that London isn't a football city... London's got more football clubs than any city I know of, all up and down the football pyramid. There's clubs of all sizes in London. I’m talking about fan culture. Manchester United, Liverpool, Celtic and Rangers are clubs like no other in Britain in terms of their fanbases. Im not anti-London, my first match was Chelsea v West Ham in 1995. Been most of the grounds in the city. But sorry, London clubs just don’t have that intensity like the clubs I mention. Because London doesn’t have that devoted passion to football like those cities do. London is not even close to being the main footballing city of this country, I’m sorry that hurts peoples feelings but it’s quite obviously true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Danny said: How do you think United sustained their domestic dominance that propelled them to the same heights as Liverpool if not money? They helped kickstart the era of greed, architects of capitalism in football. But they’re not a London club so... And referencing Arsenals final...there were a number of issues there, midweek game in a competition that is not the great competition it used to be, in Azerbaijan. Following years of decay in the league, under a manager who was out of his depth and an underwhelming follow on from Wenger...I’m sure you would have been as critical of Liverpool under Hodgson where they struggled to sell Anfield out in the Europa League, twice hitting attendances at the 25k mark during the group stages. But again clearly those cities hold the biggest clubs, and tbh, Glasgow is a city in its own league in the UK. It’s far too similar to Madrid, another capital that shouldn’t have the dominance it does. Glasgow’s is built out of colonialism, Madrid’s is doping. We all know Liverpool and Manchester United, Celtic and Rangers. I reckon Everton. Newcastle. Leeds. Would have all sold out that final. Arsenal fans have never been away travellers, it’s just no in their nature.. and they’re supposed to London’s biggest club. They’re not worth even comparing to truly big clubs. It’s offensive in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said: Been most of the grounds in the city. But sorry, London clubs just don’t have that intensity like the clubs I mention. Because London doesn’t have that devoted passion to football like those cities do. London is not even close to be the main footballing city of this country, I’m sorry that hurts peoples feelings but it’s quite obviously true. I agree with all that tbh, especially that London's not even close to the main footballing city of the country (it's 220 miles away from Liverpool and 413 miles from Glasgow ). Honestly, I think there's a big difference in fan culture in the North and Scotland compared to everywhere else... but it's not that surprising to me, tbh. Different cities will have different cultures in many regards, including how they support football sides (or rugby or any of that shite). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Danny said: Madrid’s is doping. Isn't Madrid's built on Franco's fascism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said: We all know Liverpool and Manchester United, Celtic and Rangers. I reckon Everton. Newcastle. Leeds. Would have all sold out that final. Arsenal fans have never been away travellers, it’s just no in their nature.. and they’re supposed to London’s biggest club. They’re not worth even comparing to truly big clubs. It’s offensive in fact. Of course Newcastle, Everton and Leeds would have. They’ve been shite for decades. That final would have meant an upward trajectory for them, it’s the opposite for Arsenal. Rangers and Celtic...probably, massive clubs but more importantly don’t have anything to show for themselves these days at a competitive level. United and Liverpool...I’m not sure they’d have tbh, not under the circumstances Arsenal were in. But getting away from that...it is mad that that is the stick you beat Arsenal with...but ignore the other points made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Isn't Madrid's built on Franco's fascism? Yeah that’s what I meant with doping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Danny said: Yeah that’s what I meant with doping Ah, I thought you meant like actual doping with performance enhancing drugs Which made me think "hang on, have I missed some Real Madrid scandal??" - but tbh fascism is worse than taking steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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