Everton 2-2 Liverpool - Saturday 17th October, 2020

[RandoEFC+]

It just opens up a can of worms though doesn't it. Unless anyone seriously thinks there was intent in that challenge from Pickford, what do you actually want to happen? Obviously if a midfielder did that it would be different. Indeed, Richarlison's red card tackle on Thiago came after a different foul had already been blown, but Pickford was going about his business making himself as big as possible. Van Dijk was going about his business trying to score. They collided, sometimes this happens in football. You can't treat the actions of a goalkeeper the same as two midfielders going for the same ball.

What's the actual rule that you want to put in place to punish that in future? Because if we're all going to cry about whether offside is offside or not I'd love to see someone come up with a rule that punishes Pickford for that incident without causing chaos 100 other times because it can only be open to interpretation. And don't reply "yeah but" anything or try and obfuscate as that's an admittance that it can't be done. Just give me the wording of rule that you'd introduce that's bullet proof and enforceable against that exact incident without setting another precedent that leads to hundreds of shite decisions in future.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I’m pretty sure keepers have been sent off for dangerous conduct before, so it wouldn’t exactly have been precedent setting.

[Stan]

How has Thiago's leg not snapped in half here

 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

3 minutes ago, Stan said:

How has Thiago's leg not snapped in half here

 

 

Really nasty and in my view far more ill intent in that than Pickford's, Richarlison has a nasty streak in him. Thiago could well be out for a while after that.

[RandoEFC+]

Richarlison gets shit kicked out of him every game, gets sent off once for a tackle like that, apologises publicly immediately = dirty player, nasty streak in him.

Son gets sent off multiple times in the space of months and apologises for a cynical foul that breaks another players leg = would never do something like that, the lad hasn't got it in him.

About right?

[LFCMadLad]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

It just opens up a can of worms though doesn't it. Unless anyone seriously thinks there was intent in that challenge from Pickford, what do you actually want to happen? Obviously if a midfielder did that it would be different. Indeed, Richarlison's red card tackle on Thiago came after a different foul had already been blown, but Pickford was going about his business making himself as big as possible. Van Dijk was going about his business trying to score. They collided, sometimes this happens in football. You can't treat the actions of a goalkeeper the same as two midfielders going for the same ball.

What's the actual rule that you want to put in place to punish that in future? Because if we're all going to cry about whether offside is offside or not I'd love to see someone come up with a rule that punishes Pickford for that incident without causing chaos 100 other times because it can only be open to interpretation. And don't reply "yeah but" anything or try and obfuscate as that's an admittance that it can't be done. Just give me the wording of rule that you'd introduce that's bullet proof and enforceable against that exact incident without setting another precedent that leads to hundreds of shite decisions in future.

Making himself big? What with his legs scissored around VVD's leg? Come on!

 

How can Pickford make himself look big anyway with them fucking Jeremy Beadle arms 

[RandoEFC+]

25 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Making himself big? What with his legs scissored around VVD's leg? Come on!

 

How can Pickford make himself look big anyway with them fucking Jeremy Beadle arms 

I know because there's a lot of you on here and you'll probably get a couple of upvotes as a result but surely you can come up with some new material? We've all moved on from the jokes about concussion and the wind. It's about time for you lot to put some work in too.

[Dr. Gonzo]

53 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Richarlison gets shit kicked out of him every game, gets sent off once for a tackle like that, apologises publicly immediately = dirty player, nasty streak in him.

Son gets sent off multiple times in the space of months and apologises for a cynical foul that breaks another players leg = would never do something like that, the lad hasn't got it in him.

About right?

Son & Richarlison are both dirty players, it’s not an either or type thing tbh

[RandoEFC+]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Son & Richarlison are both dirty players, it’s not an either or type thing tbh

Richarlison is combative. He rolls around when he gets fouled more than I'd like but he's not dirty. A player who puts in as many tackles as he does is going to mistime one at some point. Even today he was going for the ball. It was clumsy not dirty. Richarlison is a pussy cat compared to several players that have played on both sides of Merseyside derbies in our lifetimes. 

[Storts+]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

Richarlison gets shit kicked out of him every game, gets sent off once for a tackle like that, apologises publicly immediately = dirty player, nasty streak in him.

Son gets sent off multiple times in the space of months and apologises for a cynical foul that breaks another players leg = would never do something like that, the lad hasn't got it in him.

About right?

 you’ve lost it.

Sons tackle also didn’t break Gomes’ leg - the ground did that, hence it was rescinded. 
 

But not really sure what your point was here anyway 

Also this isn’t the first time Pickford has done this either. Did a horrible one that injured Dele Alli too 

[Danny]

Looking at that I don’t think Richarlison has intended to harm Thiago, not in the way you used to see tackles fly in purposefully to do damage, I think he’s just got ahead of himself and tackling with the grace of a man who can’t tackle to save his life. But it’s a proper brain dead challenge, completely wreckless and could have ended Thiago’s career. Should be a long ban for him imo, it’s pure violence whether intended or not

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Storts said:

 you’ve lost it.

Sons tackle also didn’t break Gomes’ leg - the ground did that, hence it was rescinded. 
 

But not really sure what your point was here anyway 

Also this isn’t the first time Pickford has done this either. Did a horrible one that injured Dele Alli too 

Lost it how? I genuinely can't conceive of the idea of losing anything on an internet forum because a bunch of lads I've never met have different opinions to me about a bunch of other lads I've never met that happen to play football for different teams. You're only arsed because I've mentioned a player that plays for your team as an example. Son set out to deliberately foul Gomes, then when it went worse than he intended he was made out to be the victim by the national media. I know if I watched the same incident as a Spurs fan I'd be utterly convinced that the football pitch grew arms, reached up and grabbed Gomes' leg and snapped his ankle like a twig but I can assure you, it happened a bit different to that. As for Dele Alli, I don't remember the incident you're talking about but if it was anything like Van Dijk's injury today, he wouldn't have got injured if his studs weren't planted in the ground so if you think about it it was actually the ground who injured him. Alli is shite anyway so whoever you want to hold responsible for it you should be thanking them. 

I might be coming across like I've "lost it" because I'm replying to all of these posts. I can't help the fact there's about 7 of them and 1 of us on this forum to stick up for our players. I just find it incredibly hard to accept this lot calling one of our players dirty because of one tackle when half of them thought it was perfectly acceptable to keep supporting a player who literally bit opponents on the pitch on multiple occasions. This is the madness of supporting football clubs. If I don't call them out on it then they'll just all go round upvoting each other's misguided opinions and they'll argue with me for saying that but the fact is, that's what we all want because if they wanted an echo chamber they'd go to RAWK or somewhere else instead.

Like I said, we've had cunts play for both of our teams in derbies. If Richarlison is dirty or nasty because of one mistimed tackle where he went for the ball then god knows what you'd call Gerrard, Ferguson, Cahill, Kuyt, Suarez, Phil Neville and the rest of them.

Teams have been getting shafted by VAR every week since the start of last season. Liverpool have been on both sides of it, Everton have been on both sides of it, everyone else has too. Bournemouth arguably got relegated because the goal line technology saved Aston Villa a point. Teams have had it much worse than what they got today but nobody cry arses quite like the Reds when things don't go their way.

Bottom line is it's a good thing for the city and both sets of fans that the Merseyside derby is pissing people off enough to generate 11-12 page threads again. The level of civility and apathy towards the fixture from reds, blues and neutrals over the past 5 years has been an absolute disgrace. Red cards, heartbreak, controversy and cunts getting injured and the scouse clubs are 1 and 2 in the league. They're pissed off now but secretly they've grown bored of us being so shite and they've got Man Utd to laugh at now so they'd love an Everton-shaped thorn in their side.

[LFCMadLad]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

I know because there's a lot of you on here and you'll probably get a couple of upvotes as a result but surely you can come up with some new material? We've all moved on from the jokes about concussion and the wind. It's about time for you lot to put some work in too.

Never mind that... You cannot possibly watch the replay of Pickford's challenge on VVD and come to the conclusion that he was 'making himself big'? Surely not? Any dunce can see it was an awful challenge.

[Dr. Gonzo]

The next time I want to feel big I’m going to scissor someone’s legs

[Burning Gold]

3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

It just opens up a can of worms though doesn't it. Unless anyone seriously thinks there was intent in that challenge from Pickford, what do you actually want to happen? Obviously if a midfielder did that it would be different. Indeed, Richarlison's red card tackle on Thiago came after a different foul had already been blown, but Pickford was going about his business making himself as big as possible. Van Dijk was going about his business trying to score. They collided, sometimes this happens in football. You can't treat the actions of a goalkeeper the same as two midfielders going for the same ball.

What's the actual rule that you want to put in place to punish that in future? Because if we're all going to cry about whether offside is offside or not I'd love to see someone come up with a rule that punishes Pickford for that incident without causing chaos 100 other times because it can only be open to interpretation. And don't reply "yeah but" anything or try and obfuscate as that's an admittance that it can't be done. Just give me the wording of rule that you'd introduce that's bullet proof and enforceable against that exact incident without setting another precedent that leads to hundreds of shite decisions in future.

Don't need to propose a rule. It already exists

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

[Dr. Gonzo]

54 minutes ago, Storts said:

 you’ve lost it.

Sons tackle also didn’t break Gomes’ leg - the ground did that, hence it was rescinded. 
 

But not really sure what your point was here anyway 

Also this isn’t the first time Pickford has done this either. Did a horrible one that injured Dele Alli too 

He’s not lost it as much as some people I know from back home. I’ve got a WhatsApp group full of people insisting Richarlison and Pickford are very very good boys who are just misunderstood... all while celebrating Virgil’s ACL injury like they’ve won the FA Cup.

I’m assuming COVID + not winning against us even with their best performance in about forever, while having all the help from the ref in the world might be a bit too much for them to take right now

[RandoEFC+]

3 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Never mind that... You cannot possibly watch the replay of Pickford's challenge on VVD and come to the conclusion that he was 'making himself big'? Surely not? Any dunce can see it was an awful challenge.

Christ you lot are boring. You didn't even lose the game. My first comment was "Pickford's lucky that that was offside". I've also said that it's a shame about Van Dijk's injury if it's as reported and not taken the piss at all. I didn't say it wasn't an awful challenge either. I also didn't contest Richarlison's red card. I also haven't mentioned once until now Robertson's very clear kick out at Allan in the middle of the second half because I know it's not worth debating you lot when you feel wronged. Safety in numbers.

So yeah, it's page 11 of this now, so you don't need to "never mind" me when I try to turn the topic in a slightly more light-hearted direction. I've spent all afternoon putting partisanship to one side and acknowledging that we've had the rub of the green but because you can't let it lie until you've squashed every single caveat that provides balance against your argument. If you just want to read things that entirely agree with every point you make then you need to find yourself a forum of just Liverpool fans.

I've just seen someone refer to Jordan Pickford as crisp packet hands though so if you want to take that as your new material and run with it then feel free.

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He’s not lost it as much as some people I know from back home. I’ve got a WhatsApp group full of people insisting Richarlison and Pickford are very very good boys who are just misunderstood... all while celebrating Virgil’s ACL injury like they’ve won the FA Cup.

I’m assuming COVID + not winning against us even with their best performance in about forever, while having all the help from the ref in the world might be a bit too much for them to take right now

This thread is 11 pages long, nearly 12. I'll give you that 2-3 pages were Gunnersaurus not knowing the difference between a shoulder and an elbow but apart from that it's been you lot complaining about two VAR decisions, one which was objectively correct and another where justice clearly wasn't done but the rule isn't as cut and dry as you're making out. I can't speak for your WhatsApp group but on this forum, it's not the Everton fan who it seems to be "too much for".

[Dr. Gonzo]

7 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Christ you lot are boring. You didn't even lose the game. My first comment was "Pickford's lucky that that was offside". I've also said that it's a shame about Van Dijk's injury if it's as reported and not taken the piss at all. I didn't say it wasn't an awful challenge either. I also didn't contest Richarlison's red card. I also haven't mentioned once until now Robertson's very clear kick out at Allan in the middle of the second half because I know it's not worth debating you lot when you feel wronged. Safety in numbers.

So yeah, it's page 11 of this now, so you don't need to "never mind" me when I try to turn the topic in a slightly more light-hearted direction. I've spent all afternoon putting partisanship to one side and acknowledging that we've had the rub of the green but because you can't let it lie until you've squashed every single caveat that provides balance against your argument. If you just want to read things that entirely agree with every point you make then you need to find yourself a forum of just Liverpool fans.

I've just seen someone refer to Jordan Pickford as crisp packet hands though so if you want to take that as your new material and run with it then feel free.

This thread is 11 pages long, nearly 12. I'll give you that 2-3 pages were Gunnersaurus not knowing the difference between a shoulder and an elbow but apart from that it's been you lot complaining about two VAR decisions, one which was objectively correct and another where justice clearly wasn't done but the rule isn't as cut and dry as you're making out. I can't speak for your WhatsApp group but on this forum, it's not the Everton fan who it seems to be "too much for".

I could say something rude and I want to but I’m not going to.

I just wholeheartedly disagree with your take on pretty much all events here, but I understand why you are, imo, so wide off the mark. Especially on the first VAR decision.

But yeah I’m pissed off at yet again another ridiculous VAR decision (well 2 of them), this time stopping us from leapfrogging our rivals on the table. I think that’s understandable quite frankly.

[Dan+]

6 hours ago, LFCMike said:

Surely he wouldn't have walked off if that was the case? Being optimistic here

Ricardo played on for about 20 minutes for us when he'd done his (which seems absolutely ridiculous)

[LFCMadLad]

3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Pickford was going about his business making himself as big as possible. Van Dijk was going about his business trying to score. They collided, sometimes this happens in football. 

Im sorry but....Fuck me 

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I could say something rude and I want to but I’m not going to.

I just wholeheartedly disagree with your take on pretty much all events here, but I understand why you are, imo, so wide off the mark. Especially on the first VAR decision.

But yeah I’m pissed off at yet again another ridiculous VAR decision, this time stopping us from leapfrogging our rivals on the table. I think that’s understandable quite frankly.

My take on the major events was that Pickford was lucky that Van Dijk was offside because the challenge was bad. Maybe he should have been punished anyway, I don't know because it didn't look like the intent was there, none of it would have happened if Van Dijk wasn't offside in the first place, but yeah, Pickford couldn't have complained if he'd been sent off for it. I argued that Richarlison isn't a dirty player and the evidence backs that up as he hasn't had a red card like that for us in any other appearance for us. I initially argued that Mane was onside and that I didn't understand the lines they'd drawn on the VAR screen, but having seen more angles later on, he was actually offside, only just, and it was one of your own fans Burning Gold that helped to convince me of that. It's not like I'm being blindly biased, I said all of this at the time. 

You're pissed off about the game, and you're probably pissed off with me because after we got to 6-7 pages of the officials getting slated and our players getting slated I got a bit fed up of just letting you lot say whatever you want unchallenged so I started being a bit more of a bastard and having a few digs back, and you'll be pissed off with your mates in your WhatsApp group and seeing me as an extension of them right now. 

I've given you lot a load of ground in this thread but now you're pushing too far as a collective and I'm not having it. Pickford made a bad challenge on Van Dijk, but it's not unreasonable to say that part of the way he shaped his body approaching the challenge was to make himself big to block a goalscoring opportunity. Richarlison made a dirty challenge today but that doesn't make him a dirty player.

You will remember very well when Suarez did dodgy shit in a Liverpool shirt, it's the best example to make you see. At first people are saying "Suarez bit someone, what a cunt" and you're like alright fair enough, I want to argue with it because he plays for my team but I know I can't. Then it becomes "Suarez should serve a 12 match ban for that" and you're like well hopefully not but I can see where you're coming from to avoid an argument. Then people keep pushing "Dalglish was always a dirty bastard, he probably encourages him" and then someone will post a tweet from a Liverpool fan saying it's funny that Suarez bit someone again and they'll say "Liverpool fans, ashamed of nothing" as if that has anything to do with you just because an idiot supports the same team as you. Blood boiling, yet? Now imagine you're the only Liverpool fan on the forum and there's 6-8 Everton and Man Utd fans really sticking the boot in and upvoting and quoting each other adding more ways in which the way Suarez bite was actually even worse when you see it from another angle, how that 12 match ban should be more like a 16 match ban, and how another Liverpool fan in their group chat is defending Suarez and what nasty little cretins they all are. Fuming yet? Because in a minute you're going to make a post pointing out that actually Suarez was tripped up a couple of minutes before the biting incident so he probably did see a bit of red mist and then boom, suddenly you're getting accused of defending the cunt yourself just because you wouldn't accept every little detail they've added to their previously legitimate grievances.

Hopefully I've painted enough of a picture to make you see where I'm coming from here - I put the time into it because I know you'll at least try and see.

4 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Fuck me 

Eyes on the ball, foot and hand stretched out trying to get between the ball and the goal. The collision this follows is an unfortunate consequence of Pickford's momentum and Van Dijk's leg being planted in the ground - you can already see how straight his leg is. What do you actually want Pickford to do there? Stand aside and let him score the goal? Van Dijk is trying to score and Pickford is trying to stop him, they're both at full stretch. I would call this both players going about their business in this set of circumstances. Pickford's other leg scissors around him and his full body weight clatters into Van Dijk's leg because he's committed to making a last-ditch stop which is his only choice as a goalkeeper in that scenario. If Pickford had planted his leg and Van Dijk had been coming at a faster pace it could quite easily have been the goalkeeper who gets injured. Like I said above, Pickford couldn't have complained if he'd seen red for it so I don't know what I'm saying that you take issue with. Is your argument that Pickford wasn't actually just trying to make a save and that he was deliberately trying to injure Van Dijk?

[RandoEFC+]

Oh also I downloaded this off Twitter about 6 hours ago and I was waiting for everyone's sense of humour to grow back before posting it but it has to go up before I go to bed so enjoy.

[LFCMadLad]

18 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

My take on the major events was that Pickford was lucky that Van Dijk was offside because the challenge was bad. Maybe he should have been punished anyway, I don't know because it didn't look like the intent was there, none of it would have happened if Van Dijk wasn't offside in the first place, but yeah, Pickford couldn't have complained if he'd been sent off for it. I argued that Richarlison isn't a dirty player and the evidence backs that up as he hasn't had a red card like that for us in any other appearance for us. I initially argued that Mane was onside and that I didn't understand the lines they'd drawn on the VAR screen, but having seen more angles later on, he was actually offside, only just, and it was one of your own fans Burning Gold that helped to convince me of that. It's not like I'm being blindly biased, I said all of this at the time. 

You're pissed off about the game, and you're probably pissed off with me because after we got to 6-7 pages of the officials getting slated and our players getting slated I got a bit fed up of just letting you lot say whatever you want unchallenged so I started being a bit more of a bastard and having a few digs back, and you'll be pissed off with your mates in your WhatsApp group and seeing me as an extension of them right now. 

I've given you lot a load of ground in this thread but now you're pushing too far as a collective and I'm not having it. Pickford made a bad challenge on Van Dijk, but it's not unreasonable to say that part of the way he shaped his body approaching the challenge was to make himself big to block a goalscoring opportunity. Richarlison made a dirty challenge today but that doesn't make him a dirty player.

You will remember very well when Suarez did dodgy shit in a Liverpool shirt, it's the best example to make you see. At first people are saying "Suarez bit someone, what a cunt" and you're like alright fair enough, I want to argue with it because he plays for my team but I know I can't. Then it becomes "Suarez should serve a 12 match ban for that" and you're like well hopefully not but I can see where you're coming from to avoid an argument. Then people keep pushing "Dalglish was always a dirty bastard, he probably encourages him" and then someone will post a tweet from a Liverpool fan saying it's funny that Suarez bit someone again and they'll say "Liverpool fans, ashamed of nothing" as if that has anything to do with you just because an idiot supports the same team as you. Blood boiling, yet? Now imagine you're the only Liverpool fan on the forum and there's 6-8 Everton and Man Utd fans really sticking the boot in and upvoting and quoting each other adding more ways in which the way Suarez bite was actually even worse when you see it from another angle, how that 12 match ban should be more like a 16 match ban, and how another Liverpool fan in their group chat is defending Suarez and what nasty little cretins they all are. Fuming yet? Because in a minute you're going to make a post pointing out that actually Suarez was tripped up a couple of minutes before the biting incident so he probably did see a bit of red mist and then boom, suddenly you're getting accused of defending the cunt yourself just because you wouldn't accept every little detail they've added to their previously legitimate grievances.

Hopefully I've painted enough of a picture to make you see where I'm coming from here - I put the time into it because I know you'll at least try and see.

Eyes on the ball, foot and hand stretched out trying to get between the ball and the goal. The collision this follows is an unfortunate consequence of Pickford's momentum and Van Dijk's leg being planted in the ground - you can already see how straight his leg is. What do you actually want Pickford to do there? Stand aside and let him score the goal? Van Dijk is trying to score and Pickford is trying to stop him, they're both at full stretch. I would call this both players going about their business in this set of circumstances. Pickford's other leg scissors around him and his full body weight clatters into Van Dijk's leg because he's committed to making a last-ditch stop which is his only choice as a goalkeeper in that scenario. If Pickford had planted his leg and Van Dijk had been coming at a faster pace it could quite easily have been the goalkeeper who gets injured. Like I said above, Pickford couldn't have complained if he'd seen red for it so I don't know what I'm saying that you take issue with. Is your argument that Pickford wasn't actually just trying to make a save and that he was deliberately trying to injure Van Dijk?

Have u actually seen the replay? Pickford absolutely flies into Virgil. Its not 'unfortunate' at all, its downright reckless. You can't just go throwing yourself into players at knee height like that! Fucking hell, im assuming you have only seen the stills and not the actual replayed footage right? Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting this shite mate.

Anyway, seems like VVD will miss the rest of the season. 

[RandoEFC+]

3 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Have u actually seen the replay? Pickford absolutely flies into Virgil. Its not 'unfortunate' at all, its downright reckless. You can't just go throwing yourself into players at knee height like that! Fucking hell, im assuming you have only seen the stills and not the actual replayed footage right? Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting this shite mate.

Anyway, seems like VVD will miss the rest of the season. 

I watched it live and saw all the replays. He threw himself across goal because he was trying to stop you from scoring. That's what goalkeepers do. What are you trying to achieve here? Okay fine, maybe it was reckless. I'd call it desperate, is that near enough? And do I care? No I don't, because if my team's goalkeeper stops to think whether the way he dives to block the ball when it's 2 yards away from his goal in a derby is reckless or not then I don't want him anywhere near an Everton shirt again. Pickford had one option and it was to throw his body in front of the ball. He did it. I don't want to see anyone get injured but I'm not condemning him for doing the only thing he could have done to stop you from scoring which was a desperate dive across goal. He put his own body on the line as well. You would say the same if the boot was on the other foot. You know it. I know it. Everyone reading this knows it, so let's move on.

And also in case you missed it:

[Devil-Dick Willie]

I am a suspicious impartial mediator I know but here is my opinion that will be shouted down by the reds. 

Pickford is not guilty of dangerous play. Keepers and attackers often collide. Sometimes it's nasty, but Pickford makes a challenge that would be deemed fair if he won the ball, and it's offside, therefore, no red. It's a VERY strong challenge. But not a dangerous one. Sometimes people just get injured. 

As for mane, don't let the angle of the photos deceive you, you can literally see the 3 players are standing diagonally from each other, with Mane the forward most