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European Super League

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https://news.sky.com/story/top-english-clubs-in-bombshell-talks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

The idea seems to be that they'd be replacing the Champions League rather than breaking away from their domestic leagues but the article also mentions that there'd be 30 games a season which surely spells the end of domestic football as we know it one way or another.

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What would actually be good would be if they reformed European football without increasing the number of fixtures. They could narrow a European Premier League down to 12 teams and have a really interesting competition over the course of the season. The best team out of Man City, Liverpool, Juventus, Barcelona etc. would win out. It would be a massive shame to lose the knockout competition but I could get behind a league format to an extent. You could even have a second division, third division etc. instead of the Europa League and the third one they're introducing. I don't know if you'd have promotion/relegation, you'd probably have to to give the ones below the top division an incentive to take it seriously, but I don't know how you'd handle qualification each year. E.G. Wolves finishing 4th one year and Tottenham dropping out of Europe when they were in the top European division, what would you do? That's not for me to decide though. Just a few admittedly half-baked thoughts.

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I couldn't care less if they went off to be honest. They're not as integral to the domestic interest of football in this country as they think they are.

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24 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

I couldn't care less if they went off to be honest. They're not as integral to the domestic interest of football in this country as they think they are.

Really? So where would all the other teams be getting their money from? Genuine question. Do you not think several teams would be fucked if the finance dried up over the next few years? How do you continue to pay wages and transfer fees without billion pound contracts? Advertisers and companies pay for the United and Liverpool’s, not the West Brom’s and Burnley’s. It’s shit, but it’s true. Look at the average audiences last year for games. Palace had over a million less viewers than Liverpool for instance. Thats a whole lot of potential advertising revenue. 

And for the record, I don’t want anything to change. We don’t need a European super league. 

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34 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said:

Really? So where would all the other teams be getting their money from? Genuine question. Do you not think several teams would be fucked if the finance dried up over the next few years? How do you continue to pay wages and transfer fees without billion pounds contracts? Advertisers and comapanies pay for the United and Liverpool’s, not the West Brom’s and Burnley’s. It’s shit, but it’s true. Look at the average audiences last year for games. Palace had over a million less viewers than Liverpool for instance. Thats a whole lot of potential advertising revenue. 

And for the record, I don’t want anything to change. We don’t need a European super league. 

Firstly, stop crying because you're team don't represent anything of why you started supporting them.

Sure, we will have to cut the cloth accordingly and the first couple of years of aclimitasing to lower fees and income will be tough. In the long term however will absolutely fine without you. It will be far more interesting too. From personal experience I was far more invested in Crystal Palace when we were chasing a dream as opposed to keeping it.

We can always rely on Manchester United paying over the odds for a South London youngster anyway. That will never change. 

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I don't think I've ever had such a low opinion of top level football. It's just shit and depressing.

Every now and then I get caught up and amazed by the absolute state it's in.

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42 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

Firstly, stop crying because you're team don't represent anything of why you started supporting them.

Sure, we will have to cut the cloth accordingly and the first couple of years of aclimitasing to lower fees and income will be tough. In the long term however will absolutely fine without you. It will be far more interesting too. From personal experience I was far more invested in Crystal Palace when we were chasing a dream as opposed to keeping it.

We can always rely on Manchester United paying over the odds for a South London youngster anyway. That will never change. 

Eh? Don’t expect that from you mate. I’ve not said anything wrong and asked a simple question. I have a lower opinion of United than most on here. No need to get personal.

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No.

Pulls the ladder up for teams wanting to get into Europe. Pulls the ladder up for teams capable of on the night shock. Pulls the ladder up on the rest of the league and creates a solidified “top 4” scenario again

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It's an interesting idea for a custom FIFA 21 tournament but that's about it. Grimsby won't come close to anything like this in my lifetime I'd imagine but expanding on what @Danny said, what makes the Champions League and Europa League exciting for a neutral is the variety of games and the 'on the night' shocks of supposedly lesser teams beating the bigger teams. There's already the idea of the 'top six' teams and this would only amplify that and set up more of a media circle jerk for those teams.

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The fact that FIFA are trying to do this without UEFA leaves some hope it will never happen. It's going to undermine how the revenue stream covered by UEFA works and that's enough reason for UEFA to make this impossible.

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2 hours ago, Dan said:

I don't think I've ever had such a low opinion of top level football. It's just shit and depressing.

Every now and then I get caught up and amazed by the absolute state it's in.

This right here.  I've watched my team slog for the last 16 years to get back to the top flight and now that they're back, I couldn't be more sickened by it all.  

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This is one of the most horrible ideas that's ever been floated in football. I never thought a Super League was ever a realistic idea. But here we are in the formative stages of something that'll probably go on to be a "super league" and that's just fucking shit.

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23 hours ago, Coma said:

This right here.  I've watched my team slog for the last 16 years to get back to the top flight and now that they're back, I couldn't be more sickened by it all.  

Sympathise with Leeds fans above nearly everybody to be honest. These should be some of your best days supporting Leeds in years and you're being robbed of them.

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58 minutes ago, Dan said:

Sympathise with Leeds fans above nearly everybody to be honest. These should be some of your best days supporting Leeds in years and you're being robbed of them.

For all the hell that the Championship (and League 1) were, I feel like I was closer to the football then.  The Premier League seems alien to me, and it's not just that fans aren't in the stands.  It's the media drama, the money, and the bright lights.  Just doesn't seem right.  It's one of the reasons I've started following the Bundesliga now.  I'll watch every Leeds game, but I could care less about the rest of the Prem.  I could watch any Bundesliga game.

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1 hour ago, Smiley Culture said:

And what’s all that about restoring the ‘zing’... group stage is pretty intense this season, United on the edge in their groups, Real Madrid & Inter on a knife edge, seems entertaining enough. If anything one big league puts less merit on the ‘top’ clubs as they can achieve via topping a small group, rather than get lost in a big table. The more times the big teams play each other the less of an ‘event’ it is anyway.

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Just now, DNA said:

And what’s all that about restoring the ‘zing’... group stage is pretty intense this season, United on the edge in their groups, Real Madrid & Inter on a knife edge, seems entertaining enough. If anything one big league puts less merit on the ‘top’ clubs as they can achieve via topping a small group, rather than get lost in a big table. The more times the big teams play each other the less of an ‘event’ it is anyway.

The cynic in me believes they've lost the 'zing' because big clubs aren't getting it all their own way any more. 

Those pesky smaller clubs upsetting the dynamics - Leicester, Atalanta, Gladbach, Valencia, Basel, Schalke, Shakhtar - just a few examples of teams qualifying/advancing further over huge clubs than they'd have liked.

For a neutral, regardless of those teams above out-qualifying anyone else or not, it definitely is still intense and has that 'zing' even in a COVID-related world. I've enjoyed watching it especially with the groups you mention.  

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I’m just not sure how you can moan about “dead matches” in the current format while trying to push a new format that could see 29th v 32nd playing each other. 

It all looks like a power grab from a handful of clubs across the continent but seeing as some have trouble in the current Champions League format against perceived “lesser” teams, are they going to be happy coming fifteenth in this new format? 

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Who'd have thought that allowing a system to develop that prevents anyone from outside the same top few teams from four chosen leagues and PSG who are backed by an entire country being the only ones with a fighting chance of winning the thing would lead to the competition losing its 'zing'?

The group stages have been shite and a formality for about 10 years. They should reduce the group stages to one match between each team. Currently, even when you get an upset like Shakhtar beating Real Madrid, the bigger team can make up for it by winning the return leg which reduces the probabilities of upsets and excitement. You can point to the odd occasion where Real Madrid or Juventus have come 3rd in their groups but when the group stage gets drawn, you can predict which teams are getting into the last 16 with about 70-80% accuracy so of course the group stage of the competition has lost its charm. I'd argue it's pretty dull from a neutral perspective until the quarter finals or even the semi finals some years.

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56 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Who'd have thought that allowing a system to develop that prevents anyone from outside the same top few teams from four chosen leagues and PSG who are backed by an entire country being the only ones with a fighting chance of winning the thing would lead to the competition losing its 'zing'?

The group stages have been shite and a formality for about 10 years. They should reduce the group stages to one match between each team. Currently, even when you get an upset like Shakhtar beating Real Madrid, the bigger team can make up for it by winning the return leg which reduces the probabilities of upsets and excitement. You can point to the odd occasion where Real Madrid or Juventus have come 3rd in their groups but when the group stage gets drawn, you can predict which teams are getting into the last 16 with about 70-80% accuracy so of course the group stage of the competition has lost its charm. I'd argue it's pretty dull from a neutral perspective until the quarter finals or even the semi finals some years.

Shakhtar and Real in that example isn't the best one to pick :P 

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29 minutes ago, Stan said:

Shakhtar and Real in that example isn't the best one to pick :P 

I honestly don't pay enough attention because the competition is objectively boring from a neutral perspective throughout the group stages. Yeah you've got the best players in the world playing each week but for me, it's just all a bit meh. We all take the piss out of some of the Premier League games that get televised but I'm more likely to tune into Aston Villa vs West Ham than I am to watch Barcelona vs Marseille or whatever.

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15 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I honestly don't pay enough attention because the competition is objectively boring from a neutral perspective throughout the group stages. Yeah you've got the best players in the world playing each week but for me, it's just all a bit meh. We all take the piss out of some of the Premier League games that get televised but I'm more likely to tune into Aston Villa vs West Ham than I am to watch Barcelona vs Marseille or whatever.

So you're complaining about something you don't even watch any more, despite there being some odd and surprising results this season especially, as well as some groups still to be decided going in to the final matchday?

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I can’t say that I’d heard of a Swiss system before today but having read up about it, it’s certainly an interesting concept, though I don’t think it would be popular amongst football fans.

As a complete neutral, if they continued the same qualification process for the Champions League that they have now and used this Swiss method, I probably wouldn’t be that fussed. It would almost certainly mean the end of the League Cup and probably replays in the FA Cup altogether, if Covid hasn’t already done that, and mean that the Premier League would really need to bin at few teams off. 

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5 hours ago, Smiley Culture said:

I’m just not sure how you can moan about “dead matches” in the current format while trying to push a new format that could see 29th v 32nd playing each other. 

It all looks like a power grab from a handful of clubs across the continent but seeing as some have trouble in the current Champions League format against perceived “lesser” teams, are they going to be happy coming fifteenth in this new format? 

That’s the most baffling part to me. Topping the group but then succumbing to a big night in a knock out is better than mid-table finishes and not quite making knockout surely. A fallen giant like United can save a bit of face in the current format, when they are a mid-table European side it takes the gloss off surely, but they are pushing for that... so Woodward must know something we don’t.

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1 hour ago, Stan said:

So you're complaining about something you don't even watch any more, despite there being some odd and surprising results this season especially, as well as some groups still to be decided going in to the final matchday?

Just because I have a negative opinion on it doesn't mean I'm "complaining". The topic started because some guy said the tournament has lost its 'zing' and that speaks to me because I just don't get the hype around the Champions League anymore and haven't for a while, at least not the group stages. I'm simply stating why I don't find it entertaining and therefore don't watch or even really pay attention to the results. That all okay?

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1 minute ago, RandoEFC said:

Just because I have a negative opinion on it doesn't mean I'm "complaining". The topic started because some guy said the tournament has lost its 'zing' and that speaks to me because I just don't get the hype around the Champions League anymore and haven't for a while, at least not the group stages. I'm simply stating why I don't find it entertaining and therefore don't watch or even really pay attention to the results. That all okay?

Woah, wasn't having a go at you?!

You agreed with it needing to restore its zing - I was just commenting back that also as a neutral, it hasn't lost it's zing and there are still shocks and results (not just one-offs) and some groups are still open even going in to the final matchday. It's not always as clear-cut as top 2 bigger sides go through and shock results are reversed by the bigger side and normality resumes. Was just saying that this season especially that has happened, especially in a group containing Shakhtar vs Real where Shakhtar won both games and up until 2 nights ago, Real Madrid and Inter Milan were 3rd and 4th in a group they were expected to go through?

So while the 'zing' being lost speaks to you, what speaks to me is that there is still a 'zing' and it's still somewhat entertaining.

We have a difference of opinion, is all. I don't see the need to get all defensive and sarcy and is quite unlike you :what:. Didn't mean to provoke anything.

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21 minutes ago, Stan said:

Woah, wasn't having a go at you?!

You agreed with it needing to restore its zing - I was just commenting back that also as a neutral, it hasn't lost it's zing and there are still shocks and results (not just one-offs) and some groups are still open even going in to the final matchday. It's not always as clear-cut as top 2 bigger sides go through and shock results are reversed by the bigger side and normality resumes. Was just saying that this season especially that has happened, especially in a group containing Shakhtar vs Real where Shakhtar won both games and up until 2 nights ago, Real Madrid and Inter Milan were 3rd and 4th in a group they were expected to go through?

So while the 'zing' being lost speaks to you, what speaks to me is that there is still a 'zing' and it's still somewhat entertaining.

We have a difference of opinion, is all. I don't see the need to get all defensive and sarcy and is quite unlike you :what:. Didn't mean to provoke anything.

You haven't provoked anything, I just didn't see how I was "complaining". Usually that would be when someone bangs on about something when it's not really relevant because they're disproportionately bothered by it. I'm not talking about this year's Champions League, but I think I've made valid points about the group stages in general, they just really seem to drag on for me. Just a misunderstanding on wording I suppose.

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I really have come round to the thinking that the group stages are by and large just a bit shit for the most part. I did enjoy it when we were in it don't get me wrong but we aren't a good example to use, we're a novelty and they'd rather clubs like us didn't qualify anyway.

Sick of how many people within the sport opt for quantity of games over quality. It's ruined the Euros and it'll ruin the World Cup.

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