Whiskey 1,187 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I've always really respected German teams from the way they operate, but their stance on this makes me feel as though I may end up really watching the Bundesliga quite closely going forward. As much as Bayern dominate it, it feels at the moment like the only true league out there (of some quality). If only I could spell Monchenglabach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 15 minutes ago, Devil said: To be fair the Premier League split of the early 90's isn't really like this. Fair enough it was a new structure which had it's roots based around the sole purpose of generating money but it still included relegation and promotion and the chance for any club within the pyramid to make it to the promised land to earn the mega bucks. Prime examples Swindon & Blackpool, small clubs. This is a closed shop event for a 15 clubs with only a handful of clubs across Europe having anywhere near enough chance to make the grade and compete against them. If this does go ahead where does it leave Bayern Munich and Dortmund? They'd be competing for the Champions league with a declining interest globally. Most English clubs then were owned by local businessmen of which many, for all their faults, and some were dog shit, still wanted to be popular. In some cases that was important for their own business, but at the very least for their social relationships. These billionaires don't give a toss what locals think of them. The leverage a community had over its owner is gone. Its not just owners of the super shite league clubs either. It is all over football. There's no price to pay for this proposal. If it doesn't work so what. Their businesses will keep ticking over, their super yacht lives will continue. This is a subtle power that has gone in football. No longer does the chant "Sack the board" make any boardroom shit itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Stan said: Their comments about 'legacy fans' and serving the fans of the future really portrayed that. A clear signal that they don't care about local fans that perhaps helped make the club(s) what they currently are. And they only care about fans that will pay up the money and most of those fans will be the audiences in those regions you mention. That's their target market. They've seen how many fans tune in around the world and the significant investment and interest from companies in those areas who provide sponsorships and media rights etc and they've tapped in to that now. This serves those fans much more than any fan that lives much closer to where the club is actually from. And that's the very sad thing about this whole situation Yeah to me - when I read that that’s basically how I read it. Spoke volumes to how those clubs cared about those actual fans. These clubs should be boycotted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,369 Posted April 19, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Whiskey said: If only I could spell Monchenglabach. do you want the d mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I wouldn't be surprised if fans of the top teams from France, Italy, Spain will be ok with it over time. They don't value their domestic league that important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manc Red 5 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I wanna know what is so super (and this is a genuine question not bait) about Arsenal, City and Spurs? surely having these three clubs invited into this league devalues it from the start? Realistically speaking none of the above clubs have a European pedigree. Nottingham Forest have more pedigree in Europe then these three. Regarding the ESL i don't think anyone seriously wants this to happen. as a united fan i am ashamed of our club being dragged into this because of the greed of our American owners. If this does go on you can bet your life that transfers will end and a draft system will come into play similar to the NFL. Just wish someone would hit these yanks round the head and tell them this is European football where competitiveness and jeopardy is par for the course. we don't worry about not competing in a competition for one year or so we strive to get better in order to achieve greatness. Typical yanks want to create a scenario where jeopardy doesn't exist. If this was not about greed i think the relegation and promotion aspect would have been included. I seriously hope a way can be found to stop these greedy B*******s from ruining football forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, McAzeem said: I wouldn't be surprised if fans of the top teams from France, Italy, Spain will be ok with it over time. They don't value their domestic league that important. The French league would be improved if PSG left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,369 Posted April 19, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Manc Red said: I wanna know what is so super (and this is a genuine question not bait) about Arsenal, City and Spurs? surely having these three clubs invited into this league devalues it from the start? Realistically speaking none of the above clubs have a European pedigree. Nottingham Forest have more pedigree in Europe then these three. Regarding the ESL i don't think anyone seriously wants this to happen. as a united fan i am ashamed of our club being dragged into this because of the greed of our American owners. If this does go on you can bet your life that transfers will end and a draft system will come into play similar to the NFL. Just wish someone would hit these yanks round the head and tell them this is European football where competitiveness and jeopardy is par for the course. we don't worry about not competing in a competition for one year or so we strive to get better in order to achieve greatness. Typical yanks want to create a scenario where jeopardy doesn't exist. If this was not about greed i think the relegation and promotion aspect would have been included. I seriously hope a way can be found to stop these greedy B*******s from ruining football forever. Welcome to the forum It's quite clear these wankers care not for history, not that Forest would have been considered anyway - they've been out of the Premier League for about 20+ years. It's all about who's a big player right now. And that includes Man City. They are one of the richest clubs around so they were always going to be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNA 107 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I still can’t believe the Premier League has shot itself in the foot like this, they had the monopoly on European football, Wenger got it spot on with his prediction. Agnelli, Kroenke & Levy have really done one over the rest here, the other 4 don’t need it like they need it and if it goes tits up via bans or sanctions then that’s an abolsute embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Stan said: 20 clubs. Two divisions of 10. Teams to be play midweek instead of the Champions League. Teams want to stay in their domestic leagues. 15 clubs - Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan, AC Milan, Juventus, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and 3 unknown others - will be permanent clubs. They cannot get relegated or taken out of the league. 5 others are annually 'invited' depending on previous season's achievements. A closed shop for the elitist rich clubs in the main. 1 hour ago, nudge said: From the official statement: 20 participating clubs with 15 Founding Clubs and a qualifying mechanism for a further five teams to qualify annually based on achievements in the prior season. Midweek fixtures with all participating clubs continuing to compete in their respective national leagues, preserving the traditional domestic match calendar which remains at the heart of the club game. An August start with clubs participating in two groups of ten, playing home and away fixtures, with the top three in each group automatically qualifying for the quarter-finals. Teams finishing fourth and fifth will then compete in a two-legged play-off for the remaining quarter-final positions. A two-leg knockout format will be used to reach the final at the end of May, which will be staged as a single fixture at a neutral venue. Cheers... Quite a lot to think about then pros and cons wise for everyone involved.. I know they have been talking about this possibility for some time but seems it's now a reality with the announcement which came just a day before they are due to announce a revamp to the existing format as we know it I believe?? For the record I am not keen on this at all, It's just a massive cash grab by a few clubs that consider themselves elite within the game and trying to secure an even bigger share of the honeypot for themselves and fuck everyone else... I really honestly don't know where this would leave me as a supporter of my club after all these years. It hasn't escaped my notice that I have less love for the game than I used to have as it is without this happening as well... Could well be the final nail in the coffin but would be heart breaking to resign myself to walking away from it and that might prove to be a lot tougher than I think but we will see, It's still a possibility that may not take off if the backlash is seriously bad enough to make them have a re-think but money talks these days... Having said all that what are the options here?? If they plan on having 2 leagues of 10 I will assume that each game like the CL will be played 1 at home and 1 away and then the top 3 of each league will progress to a knockout stage. Question: Do they plan on having the same teams in the same leagues each season or will there be Relegation/Promotion within those leagues?? I assume they would have to have it or it would get pretty boring, pretty fast if the same teams in each group are playing each other over and over again. If they are planning on 'inviting' 5 other teams each season then someone would have to drop out after the end of the second season and I will assume that as founding members it won't be any of the 'special' group so not sure how that would work if one or two of the founding clubs found themselves in a bottom 3 situation?? What about the players themselves, Obviously what ever shady deals have been negotiated with whomever it's clearly enough financially for all these clubs to be brave enough to step out from the shadows and want a slice of the cake but this will have been done without player input? The clubs will no doubt be telling players that they could be on even more money than they are on now but would they want to risk being blacklisted from their country's games?? Not so sure about that.. Ok if you have come to the end of your years as a player but not so good if you are a young up and coming player with promise.. That could persuade a lot of talent to be seeking other clubs to play for I would have thought.. It would only be a decent fit for players if the rest could continue as normal, League/Cups/Country etc... Without them would it be such a tempting thing to play a handful of game a season for these clubs?? As for the leagues themselves it would open up a bit of a fairer more level playing field for those that remain which would be good for the game but the question would be about TV revenue and Sponsorship.. Clearly a lot of the current TV revenue will go towards this new Super League or whatever they call it because nobody is going to be as interested about West Brom V Burnley for example as they would be for Barcelona v Juventus in midweek so that could be an issue but it would rid the league of the money clubs that always seem to dominate the top 3/4 places every season.. Having said that would players be interested in playing in a league where the top sides no longer exist?? They would be left playing the best of what's left not the best that's out there?? If they do go ahead with these sanctions then it will be interesting to see if they push on regardless because I just don't see it being something that will have any real appeal in a few years time once the novelty wore off.. Also they seem to be taking a bit of a gamble ( an arrogant one I might add ) that 5 other teams would be willing to join each season and put themselves and their players at risk of sanctions.. What happens if Ajax got invited and decided to join then sanctions would have to apply to them but what if they are one of the non protected teams that crashed out a season later would they then get automatically re-instated back into their normal league??? Would the players of these clubs be pleased to get an invite just before a major European competition was taking place only to learn they would be dropped by their countries??? Either way it's a cluster fuck of greedy cunts wanting more and more and they won't give two flying fucks about the long term damage that this could cause as long as they are lining their pockets, I hope the whole thing blows up in their greedy faces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoRoss 800 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,369 Posted April 19, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: Cheers... Quite a lot to think about then pros and cons wise for everyone involved.. I know they have been talking about this possibility for some time but seems it's now a reality with the announcement which came just a day before they are due to announce a revamp to the existing format as we know it I believe?? For the record I am not keen on this at all, It's just a massive cash grab by a few clubs that consider themselves elite within the game and trying to secure an even bigger share of the honeypot for themselves and fuck everyone else... I really honestly don't know where this would leave me as a supporter of my club after all these years. It hasn't escaped my notice that I have less love for the game than I used to have as it is without this happening as well... Could well be the final nail in the coffin but would be heart breaking to resign myself to walking away from it and that might prove to be a lot tougher than I think but we will see, It's still a possibility that may not take off if the backlash is seriously bad enough to make them have a re-think but money talks these days... Having said all that what are the options here?? If they plan on having 2 leagues of 10 I will assume that each game like the CL will be played 1 at home and 1 away and then the top 3 of each league will progress to a knockout stage. Question: Do they plan on having the same teams in the same leagues each season or will there be Relegation/Promotion within those leagues?? I assume they would have to have it or it would get pretty boring, pretty fast if the same teams in each group are playing each other over and over again. If they are planning on 'inviting' 5 other teams each season then someone would have to drop out after the end of the second season and I will assume that as founding members it won't be any of the 'special' group so not sure how that would work if one or two of the founding clubs found themselves in a bottom 3 situation?? What about the players themselves, Obviously what ever shady deals have been negotiated with whomever it's clearly enough financially for all these clubs to be brave enough to step out from the shadows and want a slice of the cake but this will have been done without player input? The clubs will no doubt be telling players that they could be on even more money than they are on now but would they want to risk being blacklisted from their country's games?? Not so sure about that.. Ok if you have come to the end of your years as a player but not so good if you are a young up and coming player with promise.. That could persuade a lot of talent to be seeking other clubs to play for I would have thought.. It would only be a decent fit for players if the rest could continue as normal, League/Cups/Country etc... Without them would it be such a tempting thing to play a handful of game a season for these clubs?? As for the leagues themselves it would open up a bit of a fairer more level playing field for those that remain which would be good for the game but the question would be about TV revenue and Sponsorship.. Clearly a lot of the current TV revenue will go towards this new Super League or whatever they call it because nobody is going to be as interested about West Brom V Burnley for example as they would be for Barcelona v Juventus in midweek so that could be an issue but it would rid the league of the money clubs that always seem to dominate the top 3/4 places every season.. Having said that would players be interested in playing in a league where the top sides no longer exist?? They would be left playing the best of what's left not the best that's out there?? If they do go ahead with these sanctions then it will be interesting to see if they push on regardless because I just don't see it being something that will have any real appeal in a few years time once the novelty wore off.. Also they seem to be taking a bit of a gamble ( an arrogant one I might add ) that 5 other teams would be willing to join each season and put themselves and their players at risk of sanctions.. What happens if Ajax got invited and decided to join then sanctions would have to apply to them but what if they are one of the non protected teams that crashed out a season later would they then get automatically re-instated back into their normal league??? Would the players of these clubs be pleased to get an invite just before a major European competition was taking place only to learn they would be dropped by their countries??? Either way it's a cluster fuck of greedy cunts wanting more and more and they won't give two flying fucks about the long term damage that this could cause as long as they are lining their pockets, I hope the whole thing blows up in their greedy faces... A few things to note, being in support of what you say! I think it's definitely worth noting what backlash or developments happen in the next few days/weeks. I know some fans who are totally done with football after last night's announcement, and are probably a bit further ahead of the change curve, so to speak, than you are. That final nail has been hammered in, for them. But it's not a bad thing to want to know what happens next or what the fall-out, if any will be. Everyone has their own opinion and choosing which is their prerogative. For someone who's been following their club for decades, I don't envy the position you now find yourself in. My gut feeling is that these 12 currently have made their bed and look destined to lie in it; their resignation from ECA and quite substantial group statements make me think it'll be something massive for them to even re-consider doing a u-turn. No idea what the concept of the two divisions are or what clubs go in to which, but I think from the outset it will get very boring very fast as you say. The CL is good enough in that you see the odd cracker of a tie each season amongst some other generally exciting games around this time of season. With this new league, you'll be seeing FIFA-style friendly games you'd play with your mates. The best teams with the best players and the best bank balances facing off against each other. Yawn. If they do end up playing in this SuperCunt league, I'd genuinely love to see the likes of Arsenal, AC Milan, and Spurs and any other club not quite up to the elite level any more fail miserably season upon season. It'd be the biggest display of 'the grass isn't always greener on the other side'. Any kid learning in school about metaphors would just need to point to that and they'd understand. The player thing is interesting - UEFA have apparently made a statement confirming they won't allow players who are part of the clubs going in to the ESL to be a part of the international squads. If that's immediate, it could make the Euros this summer very intriguing. There'll be some huge players missing. But I think this is perhaps where players have to put money where their mouths are - how much do they want to represent their country vs how much do they want to be part of this corporate greed as a representative of their club? It really wouldn't surprise me if players of these 12 clubs so far have been strongly advised not to speak out just yet, which is a shame. They're being silenced for something they have no control over if that is the case. After seeing what Real Betis did this morning (league table on their site removing the 3 ESL Spanish clubs), I wonder if this could be the new beginning for 'the others'. Those that stay true (sort of) to what football is all about and ignore the ESL scheme. Who knows how the media rights would work but if genuine fans want to make a real statement, they'll either a) make a point of not watching or subscribing to whatever platform shows ESL games and/or b) actively watch the 'lesser' game like West Brom vs Burnley. Just as much as we want to know what the players will say, any fan angered by the ESL has to be just as vocal or active in ignoring it or going against as much as possible. As for the leagues, they have to be stubborn. If a team gets kicked out because they chose to join the ESL, they can't just accept that team because they come crawling back. It'd be hypocritical and be such an easy way out for a side that took the risk and then is fine to come back in. Huge fines will mean fuck all to majority of clubs that do well enough to be 'invited' in and meet whatever criteria it is they need to meet. Monetary punishments aren't strong enough. Banning them from domestic leagues or the revamped CL competitions would make more of a statement. Making them play from the lower echelons of the football pyramid would make them think twice about their plans. They do it with 'phoenix' clubs who go bust sometimes out of their control. Why not do it for clubs that choose to leave on their own volition them come crying crawling back because they realise they're not actually as good as they thought they were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 I’m going to be honest, I’m so fucking distraught by LFC releasing a statement calling me and other fans who’ve been fans their whole lives “legacy fans” I know the owners never really saw us as anything other than marks for easy money, but FFS... did they have to say it out loud as they decided to release that statement showing they back shitting on the history of European football. It’s also fucking absurd that a club that uses ITS HISTORY as something they’re constantly marketing to the fans... they’d do something that is such a slap in the face for any fan of football that respects football history. FSG are an absolute disgrace. The leadership of all 12 clubs involved are all a disgrace to football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted April 19, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted April 19, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Profesor 1,457 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Those numbers are interesting, @nudge. If top level football becomes a close shop, like the american leagues, those clubs could institute some sort of salary cap and very clear limits to spending. Perhaps it's not only about maximizing revenue but also about reducing costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Seems a bit fucked to ruin football for a lot of people just because the same people who let the transfer market go wild with prices had it bite them in the arse during a pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted April 19, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted April 19, 2021 Just now, El Profesor said: Those numbers are interesting, @nudge. If top level football becomes a close shop, like the american leagues, those clubs could institute some sort of salary cap and very clear limits to spending. Perhaps it's not only about maximizing revenue but also about reducing costs. There's a proposed cap of 55% of revenues permitted to be spent on salaries and transfers, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ 1,388 Posted April 19, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted April 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Stan said: Rooney chickened out unlike Neville/Rio. Erm what erm a erm shit erm house erm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,369 Posted April 19, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 19, 2021 write a big-ass long SirBalon-esque post and get gazumped by @Dr. Gonzo's rational thoughts. Quality not quantity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt 1,282 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Stan said: Rooney chickened out unlike Neville/Rio. He is busy getting Derby relegated in fairness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,369 Posted April 19, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 19, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,369 Posted April 19, 2021 Administrator Share Posted April 19, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,548 Posted April 19, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted April 19, 2021 Dare I say it does this make Bayern more likeable now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panna King 1,012 Posted April 19, 2021 Share Posted April 19, 2021 people just need to boycott football it has been corrupt for years and now this tops it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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