No Respect for German Top-Flight Clubs in Europe

[Michael]

5 minutes ago, Mpache said:

The first one was 5-0 on aggregate to Real Madrid. They got utterly destroyed. The 2nd semi-final was closer but that Real Madrid side was extremely underwhelming, so I can't help but think that Bayern (as well as the others who lost to them) dropped the ball on that one.

I personally find it hard to judge a league if one team does well. If more do so, then fair enough. Roma reached the semi's a few years ago so that was my ammunition. Leipzig killed that point and I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

RB Leipzig reached the semi finals of the Champions League last season with a team mainly made up with a bunch of kids, what's wrong with you? 

That Real Madrid side was really underwhelming? Maybe it was Bayern who made them look underwhelming as they played some excellent football. Remember we are talking about the semi-final of a Champions League here. That same Real Madrid team went on to beat a great Liverpool side 3-1 in the final. Come on Mpache, be realistic dude. 

[Mpache]

1 minute ago, Michael said:

RB Leipzig reached the semi finals of the Champions League last season with a team mainly made up with a bunch of kids, what's wrong with you? 

Did you miss the part where I gave them credit? You see your problem now? Then you want me to "stop playing the victim" ffs.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Stick to football, not each other.

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Mpache said:

Did you miss the part where I gave them credit? You see your problem now? Then you want me to "stop playing the victim" ffs.

Yes, I didn't actually read that, busy reading all the other comments as well as my Mrs distracting me, my bad there. But my point about Bayern and Real Madrid still stands though dude. Also Dortmund reached the final in 2013 and they have regularly reached the quarter finals of the Champions League since then and so have several other German clubs in these years. German clubs always usually go deep into the Europa League as well.

If you compare both the Bundesliga clubs progression in Europe and that of the Serie A clubs over the last 10 years, you will see that the German clubs have done noticeably better.

[Spike]

imagine joining a forum, making one post, and it is this thread

[nudge+]

To reply to the original post, I don't think the statement that there's no respect for German top-flight clubs in Europe is true; at least that's not my impression at all. Pretty sure Bayern, BVB, and now also RB get the respect they deserve, and other Bundesliga clubs aren't usually seen as an easy opponent in European competitions either. I would say the Bundesliga in general has a lower profile outside of Europe though, which is more of a marketing issue.

[Mpache]

Just now, Michael said:

Yes, I didn't actually read that, busy reading all the other comments as well as well as my Mrs distracting me, my bad there. But my point about Bayern and Real Madrid still stands though dude. Also Dortmund reached the final in 2013 and they have regularly reached the quarter finals of the Champions League since then and so have several other German clubs in these years. German clubs always usually go deep into the Europa League as well.

If you compare both the Bundesliga clubs progression in Europe and that of the Serie A clubs over the last 10 years, you will see that the German clubs have done noticeably better.

No one is discussing Serie A anymore though.

I changed my opinion on the Bundesliga after the 2019-2020 CL performance from them and I still get attacked for pointing out any sort of flaws. This reputation nonsense needs to stop. When I point out flaws on something I more than usually think it out well.

[Michael]

Just now, Mpache said:

No one is discussing Serie A anymore though.

I changed my opinion on the Bundesliga after the 2019-2020 CL performance from them and I still get attacked for pointing out any sort of flaws. This reputation nonsense needs to stop. When I point out flaws on something I more than usually think it out well.

I am not attacking you, I am just having a discussion. However, some of the criticisms you have made in the past, I don't agree to be true at all.

[Mpache]

3 minutes ago, nudge said:

I would say the Bundesliga in general has a lower profile outside of Europe though, which is more of a marketing issue.

Is there any statistical information for this bit here? Not doubting you, just curious. Speaking from personal experience, I know a lot of Bundesliga fans in Peru, which is a country where la Liga is the most popular European league. It's even bigger than the Premier League. That's a generalized answer though.

[Mpache]

Just now, Michael said:

I am not attacking you, I am just having a discussion. However, some of the criticisms you have made in the past, I don't agree to be true at all.

The other day I got words put in my mouth, was on the end of personal insults, etc. Not so much from you but from Viva la FCB, DDW and Ruck. It really is a bit tiring, especially because it's all reputation based.

No agenda here, I said I would change my opinion when the entire league had a good campaign and they finally did last year, and as a result my opinion has changed. I personally don't know and don't care if it's better than Serie A or not like I used to, but I know as much as it's a top 3 league.

[Michael]

3 minutes ago, nudge said:

To reply to the original post, I don't think the statement that there's no respect for German top-flight clubs in Europe is true; at least that's not my impression at all. Pretty sure Bayern, BVB, and now also RB get the respect they deserve, and other Bundesliga clubs aren't usually seen as an easy opponent in European competitions either. I would say the Bundesliga in general has a lower profile outside of Europe though, which is more of a marketing issue.

I think you are spot on. It's mainly down to marketing, leagues like the English Premier League and the La Liga, have done pretty well in these areas. As you said, if you go outside of Europe, you will usually find people supporting either Real Madrid or Barcelona or one of the top English clubs. Fans of Bayern for example, aren't as numerous as the aforementioned teams. 

Even here in Ukraine(in Europe), most people support the big English clubs over their own top clubs even(unless they are Shakhtar or Dynamo Kyiv hardcore fans). A friend of mine here follows Juventus and he always runs into problems at the bars. Because he always wants to watch Juventus play, while most of the others in the bar want to always watch a Premier League match instead.

[Viva la FCB+]

5 minutes ago, Mpache said:

The other day I got words put in my mouth, was on the end of personal insults, etc. Not so much from you but from Viva la FCB, DDW and Ruck. It really is a bit tiring, especially because it's all reputation based.

No agenda here, I said I would change my opinion when the entire league had a good campaign and they finally did last year, and as a result my opinion has changed. I personally don't know and don't care if it's better than Serie A or not like I used to, but I know as much as it's a top 3 league.

[Happy Blue]

2 hours ago, Bigbuckeye1976 said:

Even though the Bundasliga routinely represents the UEFA Champions League and has been known to win the tournament, the world wide media treats the German top league as a "farmer's" league at best.  How can a "farmer's" league consistently defeat top teams from the other Big 5 European Leagues.  Are we bad, is it blind luck or is the Bundasliga for real.

They just arrive fresher in Europe than teams in difficult leagues

[Viva la FCB+]

I feel personally attacked, Id like to lodge a formal complaint.

[Michael]

8 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Is there any statistical information for this bit here? Not doubting you, just curious. Speaking from personal experience, I know a lot of Bundesliga fans in Peru, which is a country where la Liga is the most popular European league. It's even bigger than the Premier League. That's a generalized answer though.

I find that interesting, but wouldn't you put that down to the fact that there have been several high profile Peruvian players who have plied their trade in the Bundesliga? Do you think that the Bundesliga would be as popular in Peru as it is now, if Peru didn't have any of their top players play in the Bundesliga in the past? I am just curious, because I know a lot of fans start supporting clubs because they have certain players whom they admire play for these clubs.

[God is Haaland]

38 minutes ago, Machado said:

Bundesliga good.

Opinion good. Want attention. Get attention. 

[Mpache]

Just now, Michael said:

I find that interesting, but wouldn't you put that down to the fact that there have been several high profile Peruvian players who have plied their trade in the Bundesliga? Do you think that the Bundesliga would be as popular in Peru as it is now, if Peru didn't have any of their top players play in the Bundesliga in the past? I am just curious, because I know a lot of fans start supporting clubs because they have certain players whom they admire play for these clubs.

That's what I was thinking, it definitely isn't Pizarro as he's a divisive figure in the country and Guerrero is more identified with the Brazilian league than the Bundesliga. However, Farfan who is seen at home as "the only player we had close to world class" in the past few years did play in the Bundesliga and did well.

My friend is a Monchengladbach fan, and another friend supports Bayern. It's certainly more popular than the Premier League there, which doesn't get much broadcast time in all of South America thanks to ESPN Argentina's incompetence.

[God is Haaland]

>1 post by OP

[Michael]

Just now, Mpache said:

That's what I was thinking, it definitely isn't Pizarro as he's a divisive figure in the country and Guerrero is more identified with the Brazilian league than the Bundesliga. However, Farfan who is seen at home as "the only player we had close to world class" in the past few years did play in the Bundesliga and did well.

My friend is a Monchengladbach fan, and another friend supports Bayern. It's certainly more popular than the Premier League there, which doesn't get much broadcast time in all of South America thanks to ESPN Argentina's incompetence.

Very interesting, I expect the La Liga to be the most popular league in a country like Peru. But I would still have imagined that the Premier League would have been more popular than the Bundesliga. But again, as you pointed out, that could be down to the fact that the Premier League surprisingly doesn't get much coverage over there. 

Guerrero spent 10 years in Germany and he was much more of a star for Hamburg than he was for Bayern. Farfan's career seemed to be negatively affected by injuries that he unfortunately picked up, but I would class all 3 forwards as top class at their peak. 

[nudge+]

1 minute ago, Mpache said:

Is there any statistical information for this bit here? Not doubting you, just curious. Speaking from personal experience, I know a lot of Bundesliga fans in Peru, which is a country where la Liga is the most popular European league. It's even bigger than the Premier League. That's a generalized answer though.

I was mostly going off personal observations as well after years spent living in Asia; aside of Bayern and in recent years BVB due to their performances in the Champions League, Bundesliga itself has not really been a point of interest among the local football fans. Not even in terms of knock off shirts  

In terms of stats, international TV revenues is quite a good indicator, I'd say, as it's a quantitative assessment of both the desirability as well as the global exposure. Latest numbers I could find:

EPL - £1.4bn per year
La Liga - £815m
Serie A - £337m
Bundesliga - £218m

The differences are massive. I think Bundesliga's popularity overseas has been rising a bit, especially in the States, but in most cases, it's still mostly interest (or rather hype) directed toward specific clubs (so pretty much Bayern and BVB) than the league itself.

 

[Mpache]

Just now, nudge said:

I was mostly going off personal observations as well after years spent living in Asia; aside of Bayern and in recent years BVB due to their performances in the Champions League, Bundesliga itself has not really been a point of interest among the local football fans. Not even in terms of knock off shirts  

In terms of stats, international TV revenues is quite a good indicator, I'd say, as it's a quantitative assessment of both the desirability as well as the global exposure. Latest numbers I could find:

EPL - £1.4bn per year
La Liga - £815m
Serie A - £337m
Bundesliga - £218m

The differences are massive. I think Bundesliga's popularity overseas has been rising a bit, especially in the States, but in most cases, it's still mostly interest (or rather hype) directed toward specific clubs (so pretty much Bayern and BVB) than the league itself.

 

I'm amazed Serie A is above Bundesliga. Serie A has history of being the best league in Europe back then, but nowadays I find it only to be popular among Italians. Again though, that's a personal observation.

I've always classed the Bundesliga as having way better marketing.

[Michael]

4 minutes ago, nudge said:

I was mostly going off personal observations as well after years spent living in Asia; aside of Bayern and in recent years BVB due to their performances in the Champions League, Bundesliga itself has not really been a point of interest among the local football fans. Not even in terms of knock off shirts  

In terms of stats, international TV revenues is quite a good indicator, I'd say, as it's a quantitative assessment of both the desirability as well as the global exposure. Latest numbers I could find:

EPL - £1.4bn per year
La Liga - £815m
Serie A - £337m
Bundesliga - £218m

The differences are massive. I think Bundesliga's popularity overseas has been rising a bit, especially in the States, but in most cases, it's still mostly interest (or rather hype) directed toward specific clubs (so pretty much Bayern and BVB) than the league itself.

 

How on earth is the Bundesliga ever going to close that international TV revenue gap between themselves and the English Premier League??

I think this just confirms how much of a popular international sporting brand the EPL has become. But this is in large part due to the millions spent on marketing the EPL over the last 30 years or so.

[nudge+]

24 minutes ago, Michael said:

I think you are spot on. It's mainly down to marketing, leagues like the English Premier League and the La Liga, have done pretty well in these areas. As you said, if you go outside of Europe, you will usually find people supporting either Real Madrid or Barcelona or one of the top English clubs. Fans of Bayern for example, aren't as numerous as the aforementioned teams. 

Even here in Ukraine(in Europe), most people support the big English clubs over their own top clubs even(unless they are Shakhtar or Dynamo Kyiv hardcore fans). A friend of mine here follows Juventus and he always runs into problems at the bars. Because he always wants to watch Juventus play, while most of the others in the bar want to always watch a Premier League match instead.

I think the language barrier is one reason for it, as well. The Bundesliga made huge improvements in recent years when it comes to international marketing, translating and creating original content and providing services and support in English as well as other languages, but it is still below par, in my opinion. If you want to increase popularity and outreach of the league overseas, you have to make it easily accessible for the fans there; and I'm not talking only about matches on TV, but also ease of access to information. The EPL has a natural advantage here due to English being the global language, La Liga profits from huge football-obsessed Spanish-speaking world, while Italy and Germany trail behind in this aspect. 

[Mpache]

4 minutes ago, nudge said:

I think the language barrier is one reason for it, as well. The Bundesliga made huge improvements in recent years when it comes to international marketing, translating and creating original content and providing services and support in English as well as other languages, but it is still below par, in my opinion. If you want to increase popularity and outreach of the league overseas, you have to make it easily accessible for the fans there; and I'm not talking only about matches on TV, but also ease of access to information. The EPL has a natural advantage here due to English being the global language, La Liga profits from huge football-obsessed Spanish-speaking world, while Italy and Germany trail behind in this aspect. 

Reach out to Namibia 

[nudge+]

5 minutes ago, Mpache said:

Reach out to Namibia 

 That will surely increase the revenues tenfold!