Devil 1,179 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stan said: Agendas, agendas everywhere... Haha! Even if I added you it wouldn't make good reading. Played - 8 Won - 0 Drawn - 6 Lost - 2 Conceded - 9 Scored - 3 Points - 6 Potential points - 24 Daniel James appearances in these games - 3 In fact I think I've made it sound worse!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,380 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted March 1, 2021 Just seen this. Amazing how Mount can go down injured, in so much pain, recover miraculously to kick out at Fred, then get injured again... Is this the kind of thing VAR should spot where an on-field ref might not necessarily do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Stan said: Just seen this. Amazing how Mount can go down injured, in so much pain, recover miraculously to kick out at Fred, then get injured again... Is this the kind of thing VAR should spot where an on-field ref might not necessarily do so? Football has gone soft if that's what people think should be sighted, why can't we allow these guys to be men and have the odd tussle etc.. I watched a video the other day of Wimbledon vs United from back in 1994, Cantona scored a volley in the FA CUP. Vinny Jones and John Fashanu were flying into challenges waist high and Keane and Cantona just got on with their jobs and gave as good as they got. This is the reason there is no leveller in football anymore, the top level players are so protected a club like Wimbledon could no longer climb the ladder and compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ 5,360 Posted March 1, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted March 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, Devil said: Football has gone soft if that's what people think should be sighted, why can't we allow these guys to be men and have the odd tussle etc.. The good old days like these two, that well-known photo of Spurs Dave Mackay grabbing Leeds United Billy Bremner by the scruff of the neck accusing Bremner of deliberately targetting his leg he had broken the season before, pissed myself laughing reading up on that when Mackay said “He was a brilliant little player but a dirty little bastard. He kicked me in the leg I’d just come back from breaking twice. If he’d kicked the other one I could have accepted that. But he kicked the broken one and that really annoyed me. I could’ve killed him that day.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, CaaC (John) said: The good old days like these two, that well-known photo of Spurs Dave Mackay grabbing Leeds United Billy Bremner by the scruff of the neck accusing Bremner of deliberately targetting his leg he had broken the season before, pissed myself laughing reading up on that when Mackay said “He was a brilliant little player but a dirty little bastard. He kicked me in the leg I’d just come back from breaking twice. If he’d kicked the other one I could have accepted that. But he kicked the broken one and that really annoyed me. I could’ve killed him that day.” Exactly, when men were men and if I'm honest I found it more entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ 5,360 Posted March 1, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted March 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Devil said: Exactly, when men were men and if I'm honest I found it more entertaining. That was a young Terry Venables left of the picture, he could be a nutter too, Norman 'Bite Yer Legs' Hunter, Tommy Smith, Jimmy Case etc in those days they gave out what was given to them and if tackled and hit the deck they would get up, dust themselves down and get on with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,380 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted March 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Cazza said: Can someone please explain why there wasn't a penalty kick in the game? @Spike @God is Haaland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,380 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Administrator Share Posted March 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, Cazza said: So no then? I think it should be a penalty, in my ever so humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Seen by the ref as accidental on this occasion... Any other time it could be a clear penalty, Because they are allowed to have different options to choose from it muddies the waters all the time and that's always going to be the problem with consistency in the game.. The human factor, two different refs call it two different ways depending on mood, view of the incident etc.. On this occasion both the ref and VAR ruled it no penalty. If it had been given it would have been one of the softest of all time but they have been given all the same.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 33 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: Seen by the ref as accidental on this occasion... Any other time it could be a clear penalty, Because they are allowed to have different options to choose from it muddies the waters all the time and that's always going to be the problem with consistency in the game.. The human factor, two different refs call it two different ways depending on mood, view of the incident etc.. On this occasion both the ref and VAR ruled it no penalty. If it had been given it would have been one of the softest of all time but they have been given all the same.. The games changed that much these days nobody knows what's handball and what's not handball anymore. At the time watching the replay I actually said it wasn't a pen, the movement of the hand didn't seem deliberate to me. Having said that I listened that much to the commentators and so on, I now think it was a penalty because under new laws it should have been given. To me a handball is when a play raises his hand to block the ball from either going in or stop the movement of the ball. It actually looked to me that raised arm was a natural body movement and it clipped his hand. The bigger issue for me was the crowding of the ref whilst looking at his screen, that shouldn't be allowed and bookings should have been given. How can the ref a decision with that amount of influence around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,204 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 As the rules are and as they’re being given it’s a penalty...but I agree with people saying it’s very soft, both players jostling with each other hence the ball bouncing off Hudson-Odoi’s hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 51 minutes ago, Devil said: To me a handball is when a play raises his hand to block the ball from either going in or stop the movement of the ball. It actually looked to me that raised arm was a natural body movement and it clipped his hand. The bigger issue for me was the crowding of the ref whilst looking at his screen, that shouldn't be allowed and bookings should have been given. How can the ref a decision with that amount of influence around him. When I was watching it I came to the same conclusion, Unless they tie players arms to their sides there will always be arm, hand movements going on, when they jump for headers as an example, It looked to me as though CHO was following the ball but was also preparing to hold the player off hence the raising of the arm and then the ball starts to come down and he hesitates for a second and he is caught in no mans land and then it hits his hand and bounces favourably for him... The only way you would get clarity would be to say that any handballs regardless if accidental or not would be a penalty then at least everyone would know where they stand and the rule would be simple and easy to follow but as you can imagine if a ball is bouncing around in a packed penalty area and then bounces off a players thigh and hits them on the hand by accident it would be mighty harsh to give a penalty for that and why the game is full of what if's and refs/VAR's judgment on the day.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 1,179 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: When I was watching it I came to the same conclusion, Unless they tie players arms to their sides there will always be arm, hand movements going on, when they jump for headers as an example, It looked to me as though CHO was following the ball but was also preparing to hold the player off hence the raising of the arm and then the ball starts to come down and he hesitates for a second and he is caught in no mans land and then it hits his hand and bounces favourably for him... The only way you would get clarity would be to say that any handballs regardless if accidental or not would be a penalty then at least everyone would know where they stand and the rule would be simple and easy to follow but as you can imagine if a ball is bouncing around in a packed penalty area and then bounces off a players thigh and hits them on the hand by accident it would be mighty harsh to give a penalty for that and why the game is full of what if's and refs/VAR's judgment on the day.. Only issue with that is players might start aiming for arms on purpose, it wouldn't take a second to flick a ball into a players arm at the side of their body. How does the ref then decide if he's done it on purpose or not, he could simply say he was attempting to flick it beyond the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Devil said: Football has gone soft if that's what people think should be sighted, why can't we allow these guys to be men and have the odd tussle etc.. I watched a video the other day of Wimbledon vs United from back in 1994, Cantona scored a volley in the FA CUP. Vinny Jones and John Fashanu were flying into challenges waist high and Keane and Cantona just got on with their jobs and gave as good as they got. This is the reason there is no leveller in football anymore, the top level players are so protected a club like Wimbledon could no longer climb the ladder and compete. Clubs can’t be having their multi-million investments going around digging in with hard tackles and getting injured. It is as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, Devil said: Only issue with that is players might start aiming for arms on purpose, it wouldn't take a second to flick a ball into a players arm at the side of their body. How does the ref then decide if he's done it on purpose or not, he could simply say he was attempting to flick it beyond the player. That was the concern in Italy when they changed their handball rule, thankfully it didn’t happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Just now, Devil said: Only issue with that is players might start aiming for arms on purpose, it wouldn't take a second to flick a ball into a players arm at the side of their body. How does the ref then decide if he's done it on purpose or not, he could simply say he was attempting to flick it beyond the player. And that's exactly why we have to have someone that can make the judgement call in the moment... I am not suggesting that we should have that rule only that it would clear up the decision making of it rather than having multiple options to choose from and possibly picking the wrong one, But as you rightly point out there are always ways round it for players to try and gain an unfair advantage of a different kind, so rather than diving in the box to try and get a penalty they would just launch the ball at the nearest player in the hope it would hit them on the hand.. There is no ideal answer to the problem we only just have to hope that common sense prevails after review.. It's not like ref's don't have all the tech now to take a second look at something rather than making a rush judgement in the heat of the moment that they can't take back.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scouse_Mouse 111 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Devil said: The games changed that much these days nobody knows what's handball and what's not handball anymore. At the time watching the replay I actually said it wasn't a pen, the movement of the hand didn't seem deliberate to me. Having said that I listened that much to the commentators and so on, I now think it was a penalty because under new laws it should have been given. To me a handball is when a play raises his hand to block the ball from either going in or stop the movement of the ball. It actually looked to me that raised arm was a natural body movement and it clipped his hand. The bigger issue for me was the crowding of the ref whilst looking at his screen, that shouldn't be allowed and bookings should have been given. How can the ref a decision with that amount of influence around him. The handball rule is basically another rule that worked quite well and didn't need fixing so they fuck that up too. it was always a deliberate hand ball that got punished hand ball not ball to hand, now because of these buffoons nobody knows wtf is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ 5,360 Posted March 1, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted March 1, 2021 This handball bit is getting like diving, some coaches even tell their players to dive in a match in the penalty area so I have been told so what are we going to have next, teaching certain players to aim for an opponents hand etc looking for a penalty, after all, you can get some players who are good at free-kicks and good with pinpoint passing, then get them, players, to do the latter. FFS, if anybody jumps in the air your natural instinct is your arms move outwards or upwards for balance, that's human nature, just waiting now too is they will ban heading a football because of this dementia outcry and that will be a sight to see, a player heading a football away in a penalty area or the ball hits his head and then a penalty will be given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,103 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 12 minutes ago, CaaC (John) said: This handball bit is getting like diving, some coaches even tell their players to dive in a match in the penalty area so I have been told so what are we going to have next, teaching certain players to aim for an opponents hand etc looking for a penalty, after all, you can get some players who are good at free-kicks and good with pinpoint passing, then get them, players, to do the latter. FFS, if anybody jumps in the air your natural instinct is your arms move outwards or upwards for balance, that's human nature, just waiting now too is they will ban heading a football because of this dementia outcry and that will be a sight to see, a player heading a football away in a penalty area or the ball hits his head and then a penalty will be given. doubt it will happen, too difficult to aim for a moving target with moving parts. the risk/reward is too low, may as well get a shot on target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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