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Zlatan's Place in Football History

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By El Profesor,
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El Profesor

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After the PSG match yesterday, I was thinking if Mbappé and Neymar had already surpassed Ibrahimovic's legacy at PSG. 

This lead me to broaden this question and I find it really tough to determine what his place in history of football is.

Is he one of the best strikers ever or more of an above-average player? Can he be compared to the likes of Batistuta and van Nistelrooy or is he closer to the likes of R9 and van Basten? 

Pros: 

(+) Longevity;

(+) Domestic success;

(+) Thrived at different leagues ;

(+) Distinctive play style.

 

Cons: 

 

(-) Many of his teams got better after he left;

(-) Lack of big game performances, especially at the Champions League; 

(-) Failed in his biggest move (Barcelona). 

 

 

 

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Stan

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Good question. 

For longevity there haven't been many better. Seems to overcome any injuries he has and has built a reputation over the years to warrant and earn the respect to be a big time player. Other players have had the status but haven't lasted the course. I don't think he's on R9 levels because he was, literally, the phenomenon and legend of the 90s/00s. He's more the Batistuta/RVN level as opposed to anything above that. 

The other thing going for him as you say is how he's regularly performed across the continent, and in the US too. But the honours list part of his CV is unrivalled? Ligue 1, Europa League, Serie A several times, Eredivisie, La Liga. I thought he'd won the CL but maybe not! 

His ability to regularly succeed when trying the outrageous makes him stand out. He's scored some quite frankly obscene goals that majority of others would try and fail embarrassingly. The karate kicks, overhead kicks, acrobatic finishes are off the scale. Sheer power as well. 

That overhead goal against England from about 40 yards out in the friendly was ridiculous. 

Think he's one of very few (if not the only player) to score in some very prestigious derbies, too. Milan, Manchester, El Clasico, LA, Ajax/Feyenoord, PSG/Marseille. 

I don't think anyone can doubt or deny his talent or ability (apart from Wenger perhaps ;) ), but he's not the best there's ever been. 

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Cicero

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World class no doubt. Very much a player that strives when the team is built around him, hence his failure (if you can call it that) at Barcelona. Definitely a lot of what ifs surrounding his career. Should of moved to England instead of Spain back in 2009. He managed to score 28 goals for United at the age of 35 so who knows what he could've accomplished. 

I'd definitely rank him along side Van Basten and Henry. 

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Dr. Gonzo

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10 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

After the PSG match yesterday, I was thinking if Mbappé and Neymar had already surpassed Ibrahimovic's legacy at PSG. 

This lead me to broaden this question and I find it really tough to determine what his place in history of football is.

Is he one of the best strikers ever or more of an above-average player? Can he be compared to the likes of Batistuta and van Nistelrooy or is he closer to the likes of R9 and van Basten? 

Pros: 

(+) Longevity;

(+) Domestic success;

(+) Thrived at different leagues ;

(+) Distinctive play style.

 

Cons: 

 

(-) Many of his teams got better after he left;

(-) Lack of big game performances, especially at the Champions League; 

(-) Failed in his biggest move (Barcelona). 

 

 

 

This is a good question.

I think, overall in terms of pure talent, he was better than Batistuta and van Nistelrooy - but not as talented as the OG Ronaldo & tbh I barely saw any of van Basten, so I can't really comment... but his legacy is incredible. So I'd say he falls between those two groups of players... and closer to Batistuta & van Horsiebooy.

As far as being one of the best strikers ever... I think that all really depends on how you define "best strikers ever" - which is a sort of cop out of an answer xD Would I put him in a list of the top 5 strikers I've seen in my lifetime? Probably not tbh. Top 10 players I've seen in my life... maybe... but top 10 strikers I've seen in my life... and I'd say yeah.

In terms of longevity... he's up there with players like Maldini, Zanetti, Buffon... the players that were around forever. And in terms of domestic success, he's enjoyed that almost everywhere he's been (if not everywhere he's been).

Ultimately, I really agree with your pros and cons list. I do think it's hard to blame a player for not winning the CL - it's a team effort, it's probably the hardest competition in football to win, and shitloads of great players failed to win the CL in their careers. But a big mark against him is the number of times he failed to turn up in big CL matches despite being one of the most talented players around. Similarly, struggling at Barca - where he was obviously not the best player in the side, which was probably the first time that was the case for him, does make him look a bit like the sort of player who can't just slot into a side and elevate it with his talents. He needs to be a focal point to thrive.

But I think that's probably the case with a lot of good attacking players, so I'd hold the lack of big game performances as more of a mark against him than not doing as well when he was no longer "the main man."

At the end of the day, when he hangs up his boots he'll be retiring as a legend and a footballing icon... and for good reason. He's enjoyed a lot of success, he does have a very unique playstyle that I think separates him from other great strikers - but his inability to perform well in the CL probably keeps him away from the likes of players like OG Ronaldo, Henry, Cristiano Ronaldo, and Messi.

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Mel81x+

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Tell you what, there are very few players out there who have the ability to be as adaptive to new systems as Zlatan does. Keep in mind this guy is close to 40 and still banging in goals in Serie A and not just a few either. 

Having said that he's what I like to call a journeyman footballer. He went everywhere and did good things and won things as well. Yeah his attitude is questionable at times but would you really want him to be anything else? I certainly wouldn't. 

His list of records is long but this one is particular just showcases how consistent he has been.

  • One of three players, along with Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi, to have reached double figures for league goals in Europe’s top five leagues in eleven consecutive seasons.

We sometimes forget how important these players are to teams because you may not be scoring 40 goals a season but the contribution is still very important.

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Stan

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3 minutes ago, Spike said:

R9 the fenomeno also did nothing of note in the Champions League.

 

Just now, Cicero said:

Another indication why the WC/CL argument is null and void. 

Definitely made a bigger impact in a shorter time in domestic competitions than Ibra has though. His goals to game ratio was off the charts.

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Cicero

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3 minutes ago, Stan said:

 

Definitely made a bigger impact in a shorter time in domestic competitions than Ibra has though. His goals to game ratio was off the charts.

I mean, Zlatan has won 13 league titles in 15 years with 6 different clubs! 

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Spike

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7 minutes ago, Stan said:

 

Definitely made a bigger impact in a shorter time in domestic competitions than Ibra has though. His goals to game ratio was off the charts.

.67 to .60 not that different

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Spike

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1 minute ago, Stan said:

Is that taking in to account the MLS games as well?

 

yeah, just counted every single domestic match. i mean you could take out ronaldo's brazilian and zlatan's american games if you just want to compare European leagues

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Stan

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12 minutes ago, Spike said:

@Stan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlatan_Ibrahimović#Career_statistics

he really has only had one bad season since 04/05, even when people say he flopped for barcelona he still smashed in a bunch of goals

That's some going to be fair.

I appreciate both and hope that came across in my first post on the topic. Just that if we're weighing up R9 vs Ibra, I'd be picking R9 all the time. 

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Devil-Dick Willie

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Legend. For sure. Messi may have won the CL, but he's won the CL, and La Liga, and then a bunch of cups no one cares about. 
Zlatan has won 3 of the big 5 league titles, many times. He was a success in England too, proving he could have won the Prem if he had played for a good team. 

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Spike

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21 hours ago, Stan said:

That's some going to be fair.

I appreciate both and hope that came across in my first post on the topic. Just that if we're weighing up R9 vs Ibra, I'd be picking R9 all the time. 

As a fan? Maybe I would pick Ronaldo but if I were a coach it's Zlatan. Zlatan is a prick that does what he wants but he is also very professional in the sense of training and physical fitness, he annihilated his knees in his mid 30s and came back like nothing happened, he has improved with age and has shown no signs of obvious decline. Ronaldo had rubbish for knees coupled with partying and weight issues, that just can't be overlooked. Both come with headaches but even Barcelona told R9 to stop with the parties!

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El Profesor

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1 hour ago, Spike said:

As a fan? Maybe I would pick Ronaldo but if I were a coach it's Zlatan. Zlatan is a prick that does what he wants but he is also very professional in the sense of training and physical fitness, he annihilated his knees in his mid 30s and came back like nothing happened, he has improved with age and has shown no signs of obvious decline. Ronaldo had rubbish for knees coupled with partying and weight issues, that just can't be overlooked. Both come with headaches but even Barcelona told R9 to stop with the parties!

There are some rumors about R9's time at PSV and I think they make sense. It certainly explains his later knee problems. 

 

IMO Ronaldo should never have moved to Inter. He wasted his prime years in a team that at first was in the UEFA League and then that wasn't good enough to win the Champions League. 

Peak R9 was probably the most impressive player I've ever seen but that peak was very short. Post-injury Ronaldo was good but nowhere near close to what he was before.

 

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