carefreeluke 722 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 'Not getting the vaccine is selfish' Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,548 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 I just dont get the arguement to not get it. I have some close friends that arent and basically what I ask them is what are you going to do when everything opens up? Concerts, sporting events, even movie theatres hell even going to the grocery store is going to be somewhat of a risk? even if youre only thinking about yourself it still doesnt make sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 I think I agree with that, tbh. You get vaccinated in part to protect yourself from the COVID virus. But another part of that is to reduce your likelihood of spreading the disease. So by someone insisting they won't get vaccinated, part of what they're saying is "I don't care about the risks the virus poses to me" - which isn't selfish, really. But it's also saying "I don't care if I get the virus and pass it on other people, possibly killing them." It's also why I think many of the COVID rule breakers were selfish. They didn't like the lockdown (and really, who the fuck did?) so they decided it shouldn't apply to them more and they should have their own little get togethers... which surprise, surprise... led to more COVID infections and probably prolonged how long all of us... around the world... would have to deal with the virus. People say things like "oh but I only went to a party where it's only pretty young people - so nobody is really at risk" but those people have families, which can include immunocompromised people. Those people go to public places, like supermarkets, or use public transportation - which increases the risk of the virus spreading after they've been exposed to it at whatever party they went to. Imo, that sort of myopic view of: "I just want my normal life back" (we all do though) is inherently selfish because you're also saying "I'm refusing to think about other people, while I just want to get my normal life back" - the risk of the virus doesn't just apply to all of us individually. And that's why if you are able to get vaccinated... you should get vaccinated. Just ask @Harryhow much of a shitshow Australia's vaccine issues has been for him personally - after going in and out of lockdown about 27 billion times in the last year and a half, I'd be desperate as fuck for an effective vaccine rollout and having the ability for myself/friends/family/etc... to all get vaccinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewolf 7,161 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said: I just dont get the arguement to not get it. I think some people don't get it because they believe a lot of the negative stuff about it floating around on the web... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander 166 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 A lot of people use alternative therapies. I'm on a politics forum and one of the chaps said he had the vaccinations as he wanted to travel yet knew three people who died from blood clots a short while after the vaccine. They were in their 30/40s and couldn't be sure it was the vaccine yet the timing was suggestive. I felt slightly off colour a few times as my Dad had a heart attack following the lockdown and I needed to take him into hospital a lot. My remedy clears the symptoms in a couple of hours, never had a cough though. I had problem with holiday vacs in my 20's and so did another girl I worked with so somewhat sceptical now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 25 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said: I just dont get the arguement to not get it. 27 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: I think some people don't get it because they believe a lot of the negative stuff about it floating around on the web... There might be various individual arguments, but I think it's the general mistrust in governments, politicians, big pharma, healthcare insitutions that has been building up over the years that is a huge factor in vaccine hesitancy, in general. Add perceived personal threats, muddled and conflicting information since the start of the pandemic, fuck ups by WHO and other global and local decion makers, and you have a huge hurdle to overcome - probably not surprisingly so. I would also bet that the "punitive" measures and direct or indirect pressure on the unvaccinated in the future will only make matters worse. You need to build trust and transparency, not dismiss people as idiots and alienate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, Waylander said: My remedy clears the symptoms in a couple of hours I too swear by whisky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,548 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 25 minutes ago, Bluewolf said: I think some people don't get it because they believe a lot of the negative stuff about it floating around on the web... I can only speak anecdotally from where I am and what I observe with the US as well. Just constant spread of misinformation, starting in the US right from the retrumplicans and politicizing the pandemic. 6 minutes ago, nudge said: There might be various individual arguments, but I think it's the general mistrust in governments, politicians, big pharma, healthcare insitutions that has been building up over the years that is a huge factor in vaccine hesitancy, in general. Add perceived personal threats, muddled and conflicting information since the start of the pandemic, fuck ups by WHO and other global and local decion makers, and you have a huge hurdle to overcome - probably not surprisingly so. I would also bet that the "punitive" measures and direct or indirect pressure on the unvaccinated in the future will only make matters worse. You need to build trust and transparency, not dismiss people as idiots and alienate them. Sure and that is understandable to varying degrees but what is the alternative to not getting vaccinated? thats more what Im getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander 166 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 I had a laugh when the Scots came down for the Euros, they were in places like Leicester Square which was heaving. I was told years ago on a nutritional lecture that alcohol (I guess it needs to be a lot) was a big immune depressant and interestingly the Russians told their citizens getting the vaccine not to drink for 6 months. If we look at the Scots many were smashed and consequently after returning back the R-rate rocketed. I also saw a post on a British News program that said 50% of hospital inmates were from the unvaccinated and 35% were from the double vaccinated. The BBC would never report that. Each of us need to think on it responsibly though obviously some won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Viva la FCB said: Sure and that is understandable to varying degrees but what is the alternative to not getting vaccinated? thats more what Im getting at. Well, the most obvious one is inevitably catching it at some point, recovering, and acquiring immunity that way. Don't know about Canada or the US, but in most countries in the EU where they are starting to use some sort of immunity certificates or passports in order to give people full access to "normal" public life without any restrictions, both vaccination and recovery are rightly considered as events that provide immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Stan 18,368 Posted August 12, 2021 Administrator Share Posted August 12, 2021 For the main part, I agree. I can understand in the odd person here and there having their own legit reasons as to why they won't get it, but it's those who ram the misinformation they've initially been fed who then shove it into other people's minds and then make weak-minded people almost feel guilty if they even dare consider to get jabbed. I get that people don't want to live in a state of 'vaccine passports' but if venues and organisers want their events to be safe, that's what it has inevitably come to and it's just something to live by or live with. I don't get how it can be changed. Not getting a vaccine certainly won't change it. It just means you can't get into such events or buildings. It greatly angers me how much misinformation there is that is flying about. It's a massive downside of the internet and social media. It's far too easy to just say something and anyone with a reasonable following on social media can do serious damage by spreading false rumours or those words of self-proclaimed 'experts'. In reality they're just as knowledgeable or reliable as any given person on the street. It's a great shame of society and media in general these days that they'll just go looking for outlandish views on such streets just for a story or 'hits' or 'clicks' on their websites. Controversy is their goal and they achieve it every day of the week more or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander 166 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 I can tell you medically why some people get reactions though not sure I can explain why more don't. Not sure this is the place for it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,548 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, nudge said: Well, the most obvious one is inevitably catching it at some point, recovering, and acquiring immunity that way. Don't know about Canada or the US, but in most countries in the EU where they are starting to use some sort of immunity certificates or passports in order to give people full access to "normal" public life without any restrictions, both vaccination and recovery are rightly considered as events that provide immunity. Interesting. Yeah theres lotS of talks here of vaccine passports or something of the sorts, for Americans traveling cross border at the moment they need proof of double vaccinations. That could be another hot issue in itself but Quebec is already talking about implementing something province wide of the sorts so we might have a guinea pig to see how that plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,548 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, Stan said: For the main part, I agree. I can understand in the odd person here and there having their own legit reasons as to why they won't get it, but it's those who ram the misinformation they've initially been fed who then shove it into other people's minds and then make weak-minded people almost feel guilty if they even dare consider to get jabbed. I get that people don't want to live in a state of 'vaccine passports' but if venues and organisers want their events to be safe, that's what it has inevitably come to and it's just something to live by or live with. I don't get how it can be changed. Not getting a vaccine certainly won't change it. It just means you can't get into such events or buildings. It greatly angers me how much misinformation there is that is flying about. It's a massive downside of the internet and social media. It's far too easy to just say something and anyone with a reasonable following on social media can do serious damage by spreading false rumours or those words of self-proclaimed 'experts'. In reality they're just as knowledgeable or reliable as any given person on the street. It's a great shame of society and media in general these days that they'll just go looking for outlandish views on such streets just for a story or 'hits' or 'clicks' on their websites. Controversy is their goal and they achieve it every day of the week more or less. This opens the door for fake vaccine passports which is kinda funny in itself but I gurantee it will be a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said: Interesting. Yeah theres lotS of talks here of vaccine passports or something of the sorts, for Americans traveling cross border at the moment they need proof of double vaccinations. That could be another hot issue in itself but Quebec is already talking about implementing something province wide of the sorts so we might have a guinea pig to see how that plays out. In Europe it varies from country to country, but as a general rule, a PCR or antigen test has been the main requirement for international travel so far. Some countries now waive the test or quarantine for the vaccinated, some only require the test from everyone, some put travelers into quarantine regardless of their vaccination or test status. I expect that proof of vaccination will become the main international travel requirement in the future, though. Although with delta now and new potential variants in the future, I wouldn't be surprised if stricter measures (additional testing before and upon arrival, quarantine) will be kept for everyone nevertheless. 8 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said: This opens the door for fake vaccine passports which is kinda funny in itself but I gurantee it will be a thing. It is already a thing, black market never sleeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 55 minutes ago, nudge said: There might be various individual arguments, but I think it's the general mistrust in governments, politicians, big pharma, healthcare insitutions that has been building up over the years that is a huge factor in vaccine hesitancy, in general. Add perceived personal threats, muddled and conflicting information since the start of the pandemic, fuck ups by WHO and other global and local decion makers, and you have a huge hurdle to overcome - probably not surprisingly so. I would also bet that the "punitive" measures and direct or indirect pressure on the unvaccinated in the future will only make matters worse. You need to build trust and transparency, not dismiss people as idiots and alienate them. I think like any issue like this there will be people who are easily manipulated and then people who will profit off that, and yeah the more you alienate them the more they drift to the grifters. Personally I don’t understand how people think that govt control doesn’t rely on capitalism being in full flow, they want you vaccinated so you get out and spend, not so they can control what goes in your body. You can also tell the people who aren’t use to getting flu jabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted August 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 12, 2021 People have good reasons not to but mostly they're in the minority. The whackos who talk about micro chips and stuff are also in the minority in spite of the amount you hear about them. 1 hour ago, nudge said: I would also bet that the "punitive" measures and direct or indirect pressure on the unvaccinated in the future will only make matters worse. There has been research into this long before anyone heard of Covid 19 and its about as conclusive as you can get in social science that the stick, as opposed to the carrot, is indeed ineffective and only makes matters worse. Stuff like vaccine passports, as much as it seems like a good idea on face value, falls very much into this category. People who already have concerns and theories about government and stuff are going to look at vaccine passports and just see another arm of the government trying to control their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 The thing about the uproar about vaccine passports is... many countries already require other vaccines before foreigners can enter them anyways for other diseases like Yellow Fever or Polio. I don't think the idea of "vaccine passports" is very new, even if the phrase "vaccine passport" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Fuck me dead it wasn’t even a fucking debate getting a vaccine till a year ago. Only fringe lunatics refused the vaccines that eliminated some of the worst diseases in the world. Send these cunts back in time 100 years and ask them how they feel about polio, measles, yellow fever, typhoid, mumps, rubella, tetanus, and many more. I HATE these people, I hate them, I hate them, I hate them, they are one of the many reasons I can’t travel home and see my family, they are a reason I’m stranded and stuck in another country. Fair enough some people actually can’t take a vaccine, but these are the people we need to be taking the vaccine for because unlucky for them they can’t get a shot that reduces 90% of symptoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 I blame Bill Gates he made this whole thing controversial with the microchips. Hope Malinda rats her out after the divorce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploughendplonker 32 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 I've no problem getting the vaccine. I don't know anyone whose expressed any hesitancy in getting it However, I despise the idea of state-enforced domestic vaccine passports. These are basically permission slips you'll need to leave your house. And if they're introduced, the criteria for this permission slip will quickly drift beyond simply having two vaccines. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised if councils used this rule as a money-making exercise and issue on the spot fines to anyone who didn't present their passport on request. It's clear the Premier League clubs will want these vaccine passport as, if they're introduced country wide, it will give them access to all their ticket holders buying habits so they'd be able to tailor their marketing accordingly and thus charge advertisers more. I don't have any issue with businesses choosing to enforce vaccine passports, that's completely up to them, but I wouldn't want them enforced by the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Yeah I'm sceptical of vaccine passports. Countries might bare people from entering if they haven't taken their preferred vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ 5,358 Posted August 13, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 13, 2021 15 hours ago, Bluewolf said: I think some people don't get it because they believe a lot of the negative stuff about it floating around on the web... Yep, like Facebook, Twitter etc The wife on the laptop a few times suddenly says "Bloody hell, a lot of people getting that jab are getting bad side affects...not sure about that jab now?. my reply "You on Facebook?", "Yes..." me "FFS women, stop listening to all that shit on there, if you are worried then see your Doc, he is more qualified than all them arseholes on Facebook!!" Say no more, we had our 2 jabs months ago and we are still in the land of the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 We already had bloody vaccine passports. Many countries wouldn’t let anyone enter till they have the necessary vaccines, nor would many institutions allow children enrolled without vaccinations. This isn’t new, only the word is new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted August 13, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 13, 2021 14 minutes ago, Spike said: We already had bloody vaccine passports. Many countries wouldn’t let anyone enter till they have the necessary vaccines, nor would many institutions allow children enrolled without vaccinations. This isn’t new, only the word is new. A domestic vaccine passport in order to be able to buy groceries or ride a bus to work is a completely new and unprecedented thing, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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