Administrator Batard 2,534 Posted August 23, 2021 Administrator Share Posted August 23, 2021 ... The long answer is, absolutely. The short answer is, yup. Disagree? Of course you do! This is some clearly Premier League centricity at play, right? No. In the 80s Serie A was the most competitive league in the world, in the 90s they shared that with La Liga and arguably the latter held that crown until 2014/15. The Premier League now though is the pinnacle of professional football at club level. Yes your clubs like Bayern and - begrudgingly - PSG are institutions in their own leagues, but they weaken their respective leagues. Competitively Ligue 1 is full of great emergent talent and then PSG, there is a chasm between the spending power of these teams. In Germany you could argue it's even worse, anchored by fiscal prudence, not that that is necessarily a bad thing in this day and age. However tradition and the status quo you could argue weakens the Bundesliga, merely reinforcing Bayern's position. Ironically in the 90s that's how it was with United. Money into the Premier League in Chelsea and City, to a lesser extent Liverpool has increased its competitive edge. In 2021, that is why the Premier League is the highest standard of competition, with the best managers and attracting the best players. Prove me wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reluctant Striker 134 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I guess there will always be the debate as to where the best players are. We are toward the end of Messi & Ronaldo. Mbappe is still in France, with Neymar. I'm not sure the Premier League has names that rival those. And I do think there will always be some aspect of PSG, Barca, Real, Juve, perhaps a Milan side or even Bayern having a star or 2 that can be claimed to be ahead of anything the Premier League has. The whole leagues around those sides perhaps can't afford the overall quality the Premier League probably has over them. Or avoid selling onto them. But those at the top can pull in the superstar names. At times from the Premier League. And that probably will not change. I do think a fairly average mid table side in the Premier League would be very competitive in many other leagues. Right now it feels like Serie A sides are a long way off, that Barca & Real are in periods of adjustment. And that's kind of reflected by the last 3 Champions League finals being 4 English sides, PSG & Bayern. I don't think that is fluke or chance or Covid.. it's just how things are right now. And yes, there will be that argument that England somehow has fundamentally inferior home players than Italy, Spain & Germany, until they become a multiple international title winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,159 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I think it is because we're a lot like what the Serie A was in the 90s. They had the best TV deal, so they had the most money and could bring in a lot of quality players from all around the world. I also think there's a lot of evidence that our league isn't all that competitive though too tbh. But there's more clubs in England that you can expect to reasonably compete for the title and/or top 4 places than most other leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I think its probably the strongest league in the world now. La liga was for ages but I dont think it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Individual quality has been higher in the Premier League for 15+ years than anywhere else. However that is why it is probably at its lowest competitive level since it started. The League has been dysfunctional for years as a result. Individual quality far more important than the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ 1,388 Posted August 23, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 23, 2021 This is the first year in a loooong time where I think the Premier League is by far the best league in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,252 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 This year, last year and the year before the Prem has been the best league in the world. There was a long stretch, from the late 2000s and through the 2010s where it wasn't. The teams at the top were mostly incompetent compared to Serie A, Bundesliga and La Liga counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,914 Posted August 24, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 24, 2021 I think it probably is now. I didn't think so about 5-10 years ago and thought La Liga had gotten stronger but I think that isn't the case now. I think it's the toughest. It should be though, really. It's got the most money of any league by a scary distance. It was inevitable that the top coaches would arrive. Think a lot of the clubs have gotten a bit smarter as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,085 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Maybe now yes and for a period in the late 00s as well. But for a decent chunk of the 2010s I think it dropped standards quite a lot. I'm thinking 2004-2008 and maybe 2019 till now. Of course it should be as every team gets millions in sponsors and TV money and most teams are owned by some sort of billionaire. Off the top of my head I know the owners of Chelsea, Man City, Leeds, Leicester, Brighton, West Ham, Everton, are owned billionaires or having fortunes close to it. Some are pricks though like Mike Ashley at Newcastle United Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,914 Posted August 24, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 24, 2021 20 hours ago, Reluctant Striker said: I guess there will always be the debate as to where the best players are. We are toward the end of Messi & Ronaldo. Mbappe is still in France, with Neymar. I'm not sure the Premier League has names that rival those. And I do think there will always be some aspect of PSG, Barca, Real, Juve, perhaps a Milan side or even Bayern having a star or 2 that can be claimed to be ahead of anything the Premier League has. The whole leagues around those sides perhaps can't afford the overall quality the Premier League probably has over them. Or avoid selling onto them. But those at the top can pull in the superstar names. At times from the Premier League. And that probably will not change. I do think a fairly average mid table side in the Premier League would be very competitive in many other leagues. Right now it feels like Serie A sides are a long way off, that Barca & Real are in periods of adjustment. And that's kind of reflected by the last 3 Champions League finals being 4 English sides, PSG & Bayern. I don't think that is fluke or chance or Covid.. it's just how things are right now. And yes, there will be that argument that England somehow has fundamentally inferior home players than Italy, Spain & Germany, until they become a multiple international title winner. The Premier League bizarrely seems to not be as good at signing the absolute stellar names which is weird as that's what I think people tend to associate it with. However it basically hoovers up all of the next best things, and the best coaches, which is probably the most sensible thing to do - and that's why it's the strongest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris 2,606 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 It's as bad as a European Super league would be, if not worse. It's literally killed a great sport and made it like an American one such as the NBA and NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoRoss 799 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Carnivore Chris said: It's as bad as a European Super league would be, if not worse. It's literally killed a great sport and made it like an American one such as the NBA and NFL. Why would a more competitive league like the NBA or the NFL be worse? There's a reason in the NFL that teams from smaller places like Green Bay have as good a chance of winning as those from New York or Chicago. The EPL is nothing like those leagues, with Leicester City being the only 'smaller' club winning in over a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,085 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Carnivore Chris said: It's as bad as a European Super league would be, if not worse. It's literally killed a great sport and made it like an American one such as the NBA and NFL. Not even close From financing, advertisement, contracts, recruitment, drafting, team to league to association relations, player rights, salary caps, spending caps, team ownership, championship/tournament style, there is very little similar. I know Euros love to compare their sports to American sports but I think very few even understand how American sports operate. You're just trying to make a statement on the commercialisation of English football by comparing it to the USA but the Americans would seethe in envy with how commercialised the English game is. The NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, all wish they had the international exposure the Premier League has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,544 Posted August 24, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Spike said: Not even close From financing, advertisement, contracts, recruitment, drafting, team to league to association relations, player rights, salary caps, spending caps, team ownership, championship/tournament style, there is very little similar. I know Euros love to compare their sports to American sports but I think very few even understand how American sports operate. To play off of this I know its been talked about before but any sort of salary cap type system seems nearly impossible to implement on such a scale accross multiple leagues and countries. In theory it would make sense in stopping the money gap from growing even more out of control then it already is. Maybe the NBA model would be closer to acceptable with its 2 or 3 contracts that are allowed above and beyond a cap or maybe even an MLB type system where you pay a luxury tax for anything above and beyond, Idk im spitt balling here but there has to be some sort of solution because this surely cant carry on, or can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,085 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Viva la FCB said: To play off of this I know its been talked about before but any sort of salary cap type system seems nearly impossible to implement on such a scale accross multiple leagues and countries. In theory it would make sense in stopping the money gap from growing even more out of control then it already is. Maybe the NBA model would be closer to acceptable with its 2 or 3 contracts that are allowed above and beyond a cap or maybe even an MLB type system where you pay a luxury tax for anything above and beyond, Idk im spitt balling here but there has to be some sort of solution because this surely cant carry on, or can it? It’d never happen. The premier league has a vested interest in retaining as much purchasing power as they can. It would have to be a hard rule from UEFA to create parity across Europe but even then they are more concerned with the champions league than any national league. there is too much disparity between leagues, it’d be like asking the MLB to reduce their salary cap to match the cap for the NHL, different leagues may as well be different sports. Despite having a similar trophy cabinet there is too much difference financially between Angers and Southampton. There is organic way to fix this, they only radical method is if UEFA seized every single asset in Europe and redistributed them equally haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,265 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Yeah that awkward 2013-2017 period where English clubs performed poorly in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,085 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 @Viva la FCB Actually the most 'radical' change I could think is an elimination of transfer fees. Clubs would have to trade players as compensation and it'd prevent clubs like Chelsea, Real Madrid, Man City, Juve, stockpiling young players and selling them for a profit. Let's say in a hypothetical scenario I think it'd force teams to rely on academy players more and it'd force larger teams to give up young players in return for stars. So maybe if Manchester City wants Harry Kane from Tottenham they would have to give up a player like Phil Foden with others like Patrick Roberts and Joao Cancelo mixed in. Then Spurs could turn Roberts and Cancelo into a striker by trading with another team and so forth But even this system favours the larger clubs as they can afford to run larger academies, but it'd also benefit clubs with intelligent scouting networks like Ajax and Atalanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,159 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Carnivore Chris said: It's as bad as a European Super league would be, if not worse. It's literally killed a great sport and made it like an American one such as the NBA and NFL. Tbh, I don't see how the prem now is any different to what La Liga was in the 2000s or the Serie A in the 1990s... other than they've got more money in the TV deals now. And that would be the case even if it was the reverse of how things were now, if we had the strongest league in the 90s or 00s... we'd be getting the "lesser" TV deals of those eras - but for the Serie A and La Liga those were the best TV deals around at the time. La Liga probably fucked itself tbh by giving Real Madrid and Barcelona a disproportionate amount of money in TV deals during the 00s and only really starting to care about giving more money to more clubs in the league after the money in the Premier League went truly insane. I think the prem's a million miles away from the NBA and NFL - a Super League would have been closer to that (because no relegation or promotion for the "founding clubs") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,085 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 8 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Tbh, I don't see how the prem now is any different to what La Liga was in the 2000s or the Serie A in the 1990s... other than they've got more money in the TV deals now. And that would be the case even if it was the reverse of how things were now, if we had the strongest league in the 90s or 00s... we'd be getting the "lesser" TV deals of those eras - but for the Serie A and La Liga those were the best TV deals around at the time. La Liga probably fucked itself tbh by giving Real Madrid and Barcelona a disproportionate amount of money in TV deals during the 00s and only really starting to care about giving more money to more clubs in the league after the money in the Premier League went truly insane. I think the prem's a million miles away from the NBA and NFL - a Super League would have been closer to that (because no relegation or promotion for the "founding clubs") There is also more parity and fairness in the NBA and NFL, at least in terms of competitiveness. Weak teams are rewarded with chances of signing and drafting potential superstars. If the premier league were like American sports then Phil Foden. Trent Alexander-Arnold, Mason Mount, and the likes would be a team like Brighton, ,Norwich, Burnley, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,544 Posted August 24, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 24, 2021 13 minutes ago, Spike said: @Viva la FCB Actually the most 'radical' change I could think is an elimination of transfer fees. Clubs would have to trade players as compensation and it'd prevent clubs like Chelsea, Real Madrid, Man City, Juve, stockpiling young players and selling them for a profit. Let's say in a hypothetical scenario I think it'd force teams to rely on academy players more and it'd force larger teams to give up young players in return for stars. So maybe if Manchester City wants Harry Kane from Tottenham they would have to give up a player like Phil Foden with others like Patrick Roberts and Joao Cancelo mixed in. Then Spurs could turn Roberts and Cancelo into a striker by trading with another team and so forth But even this system favours the larger clubs as they can afford to run larger academies, but it'd also benefit clubs with intelligent scouting networks like Ajax and Atalanta. I actually quite like this idea, at least in theory it would make alot of sense. Dare to dream I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,085 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said: I actually quite like this idea, at least in theory it would make alot of sense. Dare to dream I suppose. There are problems though. Chelsea could easily just pay a player like Hazard 500,000 a week so no other club can afford him so they never have to be in a spot to trade the player, and players could just outright reject trades due to contract issues like taking a paycut. It is a nice dream but for every benefit it will bring a new issue into the sport. It might empower free transfers and a player union to protect contract rights though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Dan+ 1,914 Posted August 24, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted August 24, 2021 La Liga are fucked because they threw their eggs in two big baskets and both of those baskets ended up being carried by utter cretins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue 1,896 Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 Yes, it's the number 1 football competition in the world international or domestic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Culture 1,651 Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 Nah the Premier League may be the financial powerhouse but as a competition there’s usually one two clear standout sides but beyond that, there’s a plethora of shit at the bottom and the next four or five, some in the middle dreaming of a good season once every five years and then the clubs who spend excessively and, more often than not, poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Blue 1,896 Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 The CL, world cup, euro's don't even come close to the Premier League, it's levels above everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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