Most Respectable Football Clubs

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

 

Not really... a fan could put one a jersey and start spouting racist lines on youtube but that means nothing to the club because it has nothing to do with the club. 

I could put on a Loverpool or Brentford jersey right now and make terrible videos spreading hate on Youtube just to astroturf the reputation. That doesn’t make Brentford or Liverpool racist organisations. 

You guys are just being romantic and idealistic, but when it comes down to it whatever a fan do or does isn’t an endorsement from the club. 

There are terrible violent, racist, sexist, homophobic, criminal, etc people that watch football and support clubs. Jimmy Savile was a diehard Leeds fan, are Leeds are paedophilic organisation? 

That's individual fans acting outside of a football ground. I think it's different when you're talking about them vs. the matchgoing fans.

You can't really separate a football club from the fans that fill the stands though. They're a part of what makes the club a club. So if we're seeing mobs of match attending fans be racist... then that does reflect on that club's fanbase. If fans were wholly separated from clubs, we wouldn't have shit like Lazio being called Nazio because of their Nazi sympathising fans.

I really only respect clubs in a footballing sense though, I know that fanbases (especially of very big clubs that have support all over the world) are going to contain all types of people: normal people and dickheads both find homes at various football clubs around the world. But I mostly respect those clubs that are a part of "European royalty" - massive clubs that have sort of become institutions of football. And I also respect clubs like Leicester and Atalanta that are well run and build themselves into something despite the odds against them with: i.) the "old boys club" of big clubs trying to constantly consolidate power; ii.) the new money clubs buying their way to the top.

Personally, I don't really respect Atletico Bilbao's Basque policy... I think it's a bit weird tbh and sort of fosters ethnic tensions. But that's just me personally.

[Spike]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's individual fans acting outside of a football ground. I think it's different when you're talking about them vs. the matchgoing fans.

You can't really separate a football club from the fans that fill the stands though. They're a part of what makes the club a club. So if we're seeing mobs of match attending fans be racist... then that does reflect on that club's fanbase. If fans were wholly separated from clubs, we wouldn't have shit like Lazio being called Nazio because of their Nazi sympathising fans.

I really only respect clubs in a footballing sense though, I know that fanbases (especially of very big clubs that have support all over the world) are going to contain all types of people: normal people and dickheads both find homes at various football clubs around the world. But I mostly respect those clubs that are a part of "European royalty" - massive clubs that have sort of become institutions of football. And I also respect clubs like Leicester and Atalanta that are well run and build themselves into something despite the odds against them with: i.) the "old boys club" of big clubs trying to constantly consolidate power; ii.) the new money clubs buying their way to the top.

Personally, I don't really respect Atletico Bilbao's Basque policy... I think it's a bit weird tbh and sort of fosters ethnic tensions. But that's just me personally.

What if all the neo-nazi groups in the UK spontaneously decide to be fans of X club and start showing up to games? I don't think that makes the club racist, it makes those people racist. There are always going to be terrible people in match day crowds, no matter what team. You know you could be seated a few seats away from a sexual predator? You never know. There is always a separation between fan and club for me, outside of official supporter groups, club members, socios, etc.

Lazio aren't Nazis they are Fascists in the traditional Mussolini sense.

[Coma]

42 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

That's individual fans acting outside of a football ground. I think it's different when you're talking about them vs. the matchgoing fans.

You can't really separate a football club from the fans that fill the stands though. They're a part of what makes the club a club. So if we're seeing mobs of match attending fans be racist... then that does reflect on that club's fanbase. If fans were wholly separated from clubs, we wouldn't have shit like Lazio being called Nazio because of their Nazi sympathising fans.

I really only respect clubs in a footballing sense though, I know that fanbases (especially of very big clubs that have support all over the world) are going to contain all types of people: normal people and dickheads both find homes at various football clubs around the world. But I mostly respect those clubs that are a part of "European royalty" - massive clubs that have sort of become institutions of football. And I also respect clubs like Leicester and Atalanta that are well run and build themselves into something despite the odds against them with: i.) the "old boys club" of big clubs trying to constantly consolidate power; ii.) the new money clubs buying their way to the top.

Personally, I don't really respect Atletico Bilbao's Basque policy... I think it's a bit weird tbh and sort of fosters ethnic tensions. But that's just me personally.

Good shout on Atalanta.  

 

36 minutes ago, Spike said:

What if all the neo-nazi groups in the UK spontaneously decide to be fans of X club and start showing up to games? I don't think that makes the club racist, it makes those people racist. There are always going to be terrible people in match day crowds, no matter what team. You know you could be seated a few seats away from a sexual predator? You never know. There is always a separation between fan and club for me, outside of official supporter groups, club members, socios, etc.

Lazio aren't Nazis they are Fascists in the traditional Mussolini sense.

There is enough history out there that we all know what clubs are rotten and which ones aren't.  Nazis, etc. don't just latch on to any club.  They latch on to the clubs that enable that type of behavior.  Millwall and Lazio are two well known examples.

[Eco]

Lyon are another club that appear to do a proper job of running a club. Plus it's a great little city and they do well connecting with the fans, and have done a lot of Women's Football with their investments. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Eco said:

Lyon are another club that appear to do a proper job of running a club. Plus it's a great little city and they do well connecting with the fans, and have done a lot of Women's Football with their investments. 

I remember when they were the dominant force in France. Seems like ages ago now though. Lovely little city though.

[Eco]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I remember when they were the dominant force in France. Seems like ages ago now though. Lovely little city though.

One thing they do which I respect, and Bayern does the same, is that they take care of their own and past players. 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Coma said:

Good shout on Atalanta.  

 

There is enough history out there that we all know what clubs are rotten and which ones aren't.  Nazis, etc. don't just latch on to any club.  They latch on to the clubs that enable that type of behavior.  Millwall and Lazio are two well known examples.

You say it is the club but like attracts like, it isn’t the club that attracts those fans it is other fans.  It isn’t Lazio that advertises those ideals, it is the fans, otherwise they wouldn’t have foreigners and different religions and ethnics playing. It is the fans that create communities and cultures, the club has no bearing on that. Lazio are always fining and banning Ultras but that isn’t going to change their fan’s culture. Geez, even AS Roma has heaps of fascist fans, even Inter has far right Ultras, yet they don’t have that reputation. It is the narrative that people follow that feeds itself. Impressionable people are influenced by those around them and if you grow up in a neighbourhood around people with particular ideals you will embrace those ideal regardless of local team.

And Lazio are Italian fascists, not Nazis.

Lazio are a club that has all different races and creeds playing but Athletic literally only sign Basque players and have support from Basque terrorist groups.... which club do people kiss the ass of again? I feel like there is a lot of hypocrisy and denial in this thread.

[Coma]

25 minutes ago, Spike said:

You say it is the club but like attracts like, it isn’t the club that attracts those fans it is other fans.  It isn’t Lazio that advertises those ideals, it is the fans, otherwise they wouldn’t have foreigners and different religions and ethnics playing. It is the fans that create communities and cultures, the club has no bearing on that. Lazio are always fining and banning Ultras but that isn’t going to change their fan’s culture. Geez, even AS Roma has heaps of fascist fans, even Inter has far right Ultras, yet they don’t have that reputation. It is the narrative that people follow that feeds itself. Impressionable people are influenced by those around them and if you grow up in a neighbourhood around people with particular ideals you will embrace those ideal regardless of local team.

And Lazio are Italian fascists, not Nazis.

Lazio are a club that has all different races and creeds playing but Athletic literally only sign Basque players and have support from Basque terrorist groups.... which club do people kiss the ass of again? I feel like there is a lot of hypocrisy and denial in this thread.

 

You don't have to advertise when you are tolerant of that behavior.  They may fine fans but they are just paying lip service to the rest of the footballing world. Nazis, fascists, whatever, it's all the same to me when it promotes exclusion and thuggery.

Yes, all clubs have a problem with it, but not all clubs are enablers.

I agree with you about Athletic, see my earlier post.

[Spike]

4 minutes ago, Coma said:

 

You don't have to advertise when you are tolerant of that behavior.  They may fine fans but they are just paying lip service to the rest of the footballing world. Nazis, fascists, whatever, it's all the same to me when it promotes exclusion and thuggery.

Yes, all clubs have a problem with it, but not all clubs are enablers.

I agree with you about Athletic, see my earlier post.

They fine and ban fans but what else are they supposed to do? Ban the entire stadium and go into financial ruin? It's not like they can pick their fans, the fans pick them; a lot of these clubs exist on the edge of a knife in quite literally a competitive environment. Their fans get fined by the club every few months it seems. That's just the reality of it, what can you do? Can't make them feel differently, can't make them think differently. They will be racist banned, fined, and in the stadium.

Besides that ideology seems to be 'normal' to them, just like beating the wife is normal in a bunch of African countries because they literally have no laws preventing domestic violence.

[Beelzebub]

Agree with Spike. How are Lazio enablers? Same could be said about the section of English NT fanbase recently but it was being dubbed as anti-English sentiment quite often here.

[Rucksackfranzose]

4 hours ago, Khan of TF365 said:

Agree with Spike. How are Lazio enablers? Same could be said about the section of English NT fanbase recently but it was being dubbed as anti-English sentiment quite often here.

And the same is said about the ENglish NT fanbase!

[Beelzebub]

41 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said:

And the same is said about the ENglish NT fanbase!

So England NT and whoever runs it enables that behavior ?

[Danny]

15 hours ago, Spike said:

 

Not really... a fan could put one a jersey and start spouting racist lines on youtube but that means nothing to the club because it has nothing to do with the club. 

I could put on a Loverpool or Brentford jersey right now and make terrible videos spreading hate on Youtube just to astroturf the reputation. That doesn’t make Brentford or Liverpool racist organisations. 

You guys are just being romantic and idealistic, but when it comes down to it whatever a fan do or does isn’t an endorsement from the club. 

There are terrible violent, racist, sexist, homophobic, criminal, etc people that watch football and support clubs. Jimmy Savile was a diehard Leeds fan, are Leeds are paedophilic organisation? 

A. You putting on a Liverpool jersey doesn’t make you a fan, B. The clubs represent their local area, the fans are part of the club regardless. C. Your point about Saville was literally the point I was making lol.

[Spike]

4 hours ago, Danny said:

A. You putting on a Liverpool jersey doesn’t make you a fan, B. The clubs represent their local area, the fans are part of the club regardless. C. Your point about Saville was literally the point I was making lol.

A.You wouldn’t know that, would you.

B. You wouldn’t know where I was from.

You missed the point on that part

[Danny]

10 minutes ago, Spike said:

A.You wouldn’t know that, would you.

B. You wouldn’t know where I was from.

You missed the point on that part

I think you're getting too pedantic and starting to fall into the non-football fan category of "but why do you say we? you don't play for them"

[Spike]

5 minutes ago, Danny said:

I think you're getting too pedantic and starting to fall into the non-football fan category of "but why do you say we? you don't play for them"

What!? That’s not even remotely close to my point.