2021 Ballon d'Or Shortlist

[Dr. Gonzo]

22 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Jorginho was a better footballer through 2021 than Salah. Very credible .

Lewadowski not winning it & Salah in 7th are a good reason to probably not take the Balon d'Or super seriously.

[Cicero]

6 minutes ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

My comment had nothing to do with Bundesliga. It was about the Champions League. 

You're right, marketability plays a roll. In this case, it's the only factor. 

38 goals. 14 assists. Copa Del Rey and Copa America disagrees. 

[Viva la FCB+]

You can call the Bundesliga whatever you want I dont even care anymore but the guy broke a 50 year old record that noone has ever been close to breaking. Let alone his CL and International record. Its not the first nor the last ridiculous choice so I guess I shouldnt weigh too much into it really. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

13 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said:

You can call the Bundesliga whatever you want I dont even care anymore but the guy broke a 50 year old record that noone has ever been close to breaking. Let alone his CL and International record. Its not the first nor the last ridiculous choice so I guess I shouldnt weigh too much into it really. 

This is more just a contest of who's more popular amongst football journalists than anything else.

Messi's probably the best player of this generation - does that mean he was the #1 player of the past year? Nah, not even close and now he's famously struggled to find his feet in fucking France at a club that puts the domestic competition to shame in all honesty. Ronaldo's the only player who comes close to Messi in this generation... does that make him a top 10 player in Europe currently? Nah, I don't think so - regardless of if he's world class.

Is Lewadowski worse than Messi currently? No, he's probably the best player in the world - I think only Benzema & Salah come close to him in current form. Messi winning a domestic cup and an international trophy in the same season doesn't change my mind in the slightest.

Jorginho's a good player and a midfielder I like a lot, but having him as 3rd best in the world in this tournament... simply because he won some cups as part of two very very well balanced midfields is also a bit silly.

It's almost as stupid of a contest as that "golden boy" shite where even if you're arguably the best young player in Europe and were nominated the season before (and are still eligible) and came runner up... you might not even get nominated after having a far superior season than the season you were nominated and came runner up.

These football journalists just don't know how to cope with Messi and Ronaldo no longer being at the top of their games but still needing to have their articles get clicks from all the Messi/Ronaldo fanboys. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

51 minutes ago, Cicero said:

38 goals. 14 assists. Copa Del Rey and Copa America disagrees. 

Ah yes, the Copa Del whatever. The Carabao cup of spain. 

And of course! The Coppa whenever wherever! Held every so often, seemingly at random, sometimes not even in South America, with esteemed winners Chile winning twice in 2 years! Where was Alexis sanchez and Vidals Ballon Dor? They're surely masters of the universe if they can win it twice in 12 months? 

Messi should have won the fucking thing 6 times by now, maybe Brazil snatching it from him occasionally. But its a joke cup, no one really cares enough to hold the fucking thing consistently, much less win it. 
 

[Rick]

I just feel sorry for Lewandowski. What more is he expected to fucking do? Outperforms everybody, scores a shit ton of goals, breaks 5 decade old record, wins the league & champions league. Robbed of one last season for no good fucking reason, and robbed again this year. 
 

And why? So they can suck off that stupid little midget prick a bit more. If I was Lewandowski I would storm the stage, or not even bother fucking turning up. I’d also tell Messi to go fuck himself for his patronising “this should be yours” comments. He knows fine well that he has won because of who he is, and he has contributed to this warped, fixed bias. 

[Cicero]

1 hour ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

Ah yes, the Copa Del whatever. The Carabao cup of spain. 

And of course! The Coppa whenever wherever! Held every so often, seemingly at random, sometimes not even in South America, with esteemed winners Chile winning twice in 2 years! Where was Alexis sanchez and Vidals Ballon Dor? They're surely masters of the universe if they can win it twice in 12 months? 

Messi should have won the fucking thing 6 times by now, maybe Brazil snatching it from him occasionally. But its a joke cup, no one really cares enough to hold the fucking thing consistently, much less win it. 
 

The first two paragraphs truly exemplifies why its always humorous seeing you get all defensive when someone crticises the Bundesliga.  ‘No one cares about the Copa America’. Literally any South American would give their left nut to win it 

Lewa had a case to win. So did Messi. The votes reflect that. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

3 hours ago, Cicero said:

The first two paragraphs truly exemplifies why its always humorous seeing you get all defensive when someone crticises the Bundesliga.  ‘No one cares about the Copa America’. Literally any South American would give their left nut to win it 

Lewa had a case to win. So did Messi. The votes reflect that. 

You're not addressing my point. Most south Americans would give their right nut to have clean drinking water, or an unlimited supply of guinea pigs. The Copa America isn't HALF the trophy the Euro is. The Lana Del Rey is the Carabao cup of spain, and isn't half as prestigious as winning La Liga (or the Bundesliga since you keep dragging it up despite my not really mentioning it) 

Lewa was robbed last year, and amends should have been made this year. If Messi or Rondon von no condom child support king of Portugal had been Europes best player in 2020, they'd have given them their Balon D'Or, a parade and a blowjob from the queen by now. 

IF they give Lewa his retrospective trophy, i'll drop the issue, and say "Well it was close, and perhaps Lewandowski should have won it a second time, but that last chance to give the best ever his final ass licking was the deciding factor and I can live with that"

As it stands, I'd rather drink a litre of dog piss than acknowledge Messi as the winner. 

If Salah were premier league top scorer, won the FA cup, won Afcon and was best player, but Liverpool finished 4th would he win the Balon d'Or? Would he fuck

[Coma]

Further proof that this award means absolutely nothing.  The world knows Lewandowski was the best player.  Messi acknowledged Lewi was the best player.  The French football voters, or whoever comes up with this shit, have egg on their faces again.  

[Harry]

14 hours ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

My comment had nothing to do with Bundesliga. It was about the Champions League. 

You're right, marketability plays a roll. In this case, it's the only factor. 

Messi had a top 5 in the world club season and won Copa America, finishing with 9 goals +assists and player of the tournament. It wasn't just that Argentina win its that he carried then to it.

Jorginho was third, for being influential in the Italian Euro win and champions league win. Not sure he had a top 5 season overall, but those big things sway the voting....

Not the vote I'd go for but it was fair enough imo.

 

Anyway at least Australia's journalist voted for Lewandowski.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-30/lionel-messi-wins-seventh-ballon-dor-sam-kerr-third-womens-award/100660406

[Guest]

Chelsea won club of the year. Interesting thing about this award is that it is given for your mens and womens team. Since Chelsea won the champions league and their women reached the womens final and won the super league they were considered the best all round team. 

As for messi winning. Does it take into a account his performance at PSG? Its for the calendar year isn't it so surely it does? I've heard he had carried argentina perhaps that is why he won it but it does seem it was the wrong result from what I have heard 

[Cicero]

Messi didn't carry Argentina. Not to the extent of what we saw circa 2014-2017 at least.  

Argentina under Scaloni are very well drilled defensively. What can be said however is that Messi influences the attack more so than anyone at the moment.. Think he's scored or assisted every goal for Argentina leading up to the final. 

[Viva la FCB+]

If you took 2020 into account this is beyond an absolute sham 

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

 

lol Alisson not even in the top 10 keepers in Europe.

And why's Schmeichel there?!

[Smiley Culture]

Completely not arsed by the Balon D’Or. Never taken much notice of it, seems to be one of those things the “football Twitter” sad acts piss themselves about. 

[The Artful Dodger]

Amazed at the outcry on this one. If we're going by achievements, why does Lewandowski deserve it? His team won a league they'd won for the past 7 years before it (Ligue 1 gets ridiculed but the title gets shared around more than that). Poland finished bottom of a group containing Slovakia and Sweden. What is so great about Lewandowki's year? He deserved to win in 2020, no doubt about that and I hope he gets retrospectively given it, but that doesn't mean he deserves it this year.

I agree,  Poland are not a great side but I'd argue they're better than Slovakia and Sweden, on paper at least. Lewandowski did score goals, granted, but there's nothing standing out for me. Bayern Munich went out in the Quarter finals to PSG side that everyone is ridiculing as weak and full of champagne charlies.  I think we'd all agree Bayern Munich were an absolute chasm above Barcelona last season.

Also, the Euros is not clearly better than Copa America. International football is pretty weak across the spectrum right now. England got to a final managed by a tactical dilettante in Gareth Southgate and with bloody Harry Maguire as their centre back.  Who else really was there? Germany were shite, Netherlands were shite, Spain were a young side,  Belgium are just haven't got what it takes and  France are a mess at the moment, despite their talent...Italy were the best team and won it but outside of them, there's no great European team at the moment.

Barcelona are now languishing in 7th place without Messi. He is the best player in the world based on talent alone, by a margin in my view, and I don't see any stand out achievements to outdo his one last season. It'll be his last one now he's sold his soul to an oil club so you all won't have to get so angry about the 'dwarf' for much longer.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 

lol Alisson not even in the top 10 keepers in Europe.

And why's Schmeichel there?!

Superb performances for Denmark, FA Cup winner for us and an all round quality goalkeeper. 

Also don't know why Alisson isn't on there though. 

[Viva la FCB+]

1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Amazed at the outcry on this one. If we're going by achievements, why does Lewandowski deserve it? His team won a league they'd won for the past 7 years before it (Ligue 1 gets ridiculed but the title gets shared around more than that). Poland finished bottom of a group containing Slovakia and Sweden. What is so great about Lewandowki's year? He deserved to win in 2020, no doubt about that and I hope he gets retrospectively given it, but that doesn't mean he deserves it this year.

I agree,  Poland are not a great side but I'd argue they're better than Slovakia and Sweden, on paper at least. Lewandowski did score goals, granted, but there's nothing standing out for me. Bayern Munich went out in the Quarter finals to PSG side that everyone is ridiculing as weak and full of champagne charlies.  I think we'd all agree Bayern Munich were an absolute chasm above Barcelona last season.

Also, the Euros is not clearly better than Copa America. International football is pretty weak across the spectrum right now. England got to a final managed by a tactical dilettante in Gareth Southgate and with bloody Harry Maguire as their centre back.  Who else really was there? Germany were shite, Netherlands were shite, Spain were a young side,  Belgium are just haven't got what it takes and  France are a mess at the moment, despite their talent...Italy were the best team and won it but outside of them, there's no great European team at the moment.

Barcelona are now languishing in 7th place without Messi. He is the best player in the world based on talent alone, by a margin in my view, and I don't see any stand out achievements to outdo his one last season. It'll be his last one now he's sold his soul to an oil club so you all won't have to get so angry about the 'dwarf' for much longer.

Scored goals? Yeah he broke a 50 year old record that noone has ever been in the realm of breaking for goal scoring. I suppose thats scoring goals. Us going out in the quarters only furthers the case, we lost on away goals and Lewy was injured for both legs. Arguing Poland should have done better is splitting hairs, he scored goals for them what else are you expecting him to do? Barcalona languished in 4th place with Messi so thats not much of a slide, his start in France has been anything but spectacular to boot. Sure you could make a case for Messi its not like Jorginho won it here instead but Lewy was more deserving imo. ]

 

Edit: 

Just gunna slide this in here as I have glance over at the Athletics article, Ill post the link and a couple snipets:

https://theathletic.com/2986941/2021/11/30/messi-wins-ballon-dor-but-data-doesnt-forget-lewandowski-was-robbed/

So let’s be clear about one thing: Robert Lewandowski was robbed when Lionel Messi won the men’s award last night.

For starters, this is the same calendar year in which Lewandowski broke Gerd Muller’s 49-year-old record by scoring 41 goals in a single Bundesliga season. Have you heard of Gerd Muller? Do you realise how insane this is? Going home with a made-up “Best Striker” award after that is like selling more records than Michael Jackson and winning a Grammy for Best Album by a Solo Polish Tenor.

Forty-one goals in a domestic campaign. Eight of them were penalties, it’s true, but even if we toss those out, even if we skip over the whole month of April that he missed with a strained ligament, and even if we spot Messi the four extra games that Germany’s 18-team league doesn’t play, Lewandowski still scored 22 per cent more non-penalty goals than every single other player in Europe. His 1.21 non-penalty goals per 90 minutes make Erling Haaland’s 0.93 look like a snail’s pace.

And here’s the kicker: he’s doing it again. More than a third of the way into this season, Lewandowski is again Europe’s leading scorer by a comfortable margin, he’s again averaging more than one non-penalty goal per 90 minutes, and he’s beating everyone for non-penalty expected goals plus expected assists too — just so you know it’s real.

Quote

We’ll start back in January 2020, because we all know this wasn’t really the 2021 Ballon d’Or. It also carried the spiritual burden of last year, when a global pandemic was enough to cancel the award ceremony but not enough to keep Lewandowski from leading Bayern to a continental treble, dismantling Messi’s Barcelona by a historic 8-2 margin along the way. If they’d done this thing last year, every vote in the house would have gone to Lewandowski, no questions asked. Too bad memories are short.

Data doesn’t forget, though, and the chart is devastatingly clear. Over the last two years, the last time Messi was level on goals with Lewandowski was the day that football stopped. Ever since games came back from quarantine, it’s been no contest. Sure, there was a stretch last spring when Messi kept pace for a while, but that was back when we were young and innocent and hadn’t seen Squid Game yet. A lot has changed, OK?

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

Superb performances for Denmark, FA Cup winner for us and an all round quality goalkeeper. 

Also don't know why Alisson isn't on there though. 

He was good in the Euros and won the FA Cup but... I think putting him on a list that's meant to be the top 10 keepers in Europe is a bit weird. He's not a bad keeper, sure... but top 10 in Europe? Seems kind of like he got some votes for playing for Denmark and the sympathy related to what happened to Eriksen & how Denmark responded to losing one of their best players. Statistically he's not been that great this season either (although part of that is definitely down to the Leicester defense, considering he's got a decent save percentage of 68% - so it's hard to really fault him there).

And tbh, I don't fault him at all - it's not his fault he's been voted as a top 10 keeper. I just think it's a bit weird he's on that list of keepers.

PSG having 2 keepers (the #1 being someone that seemingly can't win his battle against Navas to start ) is also a bit weird. Weird amount of weight put behind international cup performances, I think, and maybe not enough weight put on playing consistently well at the club level.

#1 keeper should have been Mendy, imo - and I don't think it should have been close. His outrageous stats match the performances he's put in - absolute goalkeeping beast.

[Beelzebub]

This is my neighbour 

I score goals, he score goals

I win Copa America, he doesn't 

[Asura]

Lewandoski didnt win the champions league this season, just an FYI

[JoshBRFC+]

On 29/11/2021 at 21:07, CaaC (John) said:

I must admit I don't watch football a lot nowadays like you lot but I thought Lewandowski had it 'done and dusted'. 

Most people who thought Messi didn't deserve it don't watch a lot of football. So you're not on your own  

[Viva la FCB+]

Lather me up in butter and call me sussie.