Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 I won't post much with emotions obviously at the peak for everyone, just wanted to say I do feel sorry for Lewis as he didn't make a single mistake today. Also, FIA definitely needs changes; Masi has to go and they should consider being more consistent in implementing their rules. Anyway, Max got lucky tonight, but he had a phenomenal season and is a deserving champion. What a season, will go into history books for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,613 Posted December 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted December 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: I still dont understand how that can be considered fair? Hamilton was 20 seconds or so ahead. When the race restarted he was allowed to only be just behind him. How is that fair? That's just how a safety car works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just now, Tommy said: That's just how a safety car works. Yeah but shortly they should have to stay on the positions they were in? It may be the rules but its not right surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithcore 1,276 Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 I can only say that we feel cheated and cannot let this stand. Hamilton is the true champion and I think he will be awarded the title retrospectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, shut up said: It isn't fair. And people quoting 'tHaTs wHaT aLlWaYs hApPenS' and? Doesn't mean it's fair. It's always been a bullshit rule The overtaking of only a select few of the cars is the issue though. You can't pick and choose I don't get why the overtaking was an issue? To me the issues seemed to be that max was able to make up the 20 seconds or so through no mistake of hamilton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,661 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just now, Gunnersauraus said: I still dont understand how that can be considered fair? Hamilton was 20 seconds or so ahead. When the race restarted he was allowed to only be just behind him. How is that fair? That's what happens, red flag, safety car, virtual safety car gives people with nothing to lose a chance to take a gamble. There's a huge element of luck and fortune in racing that you can't remove. It wasn't "fair" when Hamilton got to repair his car under a red flag at Silverstone or when Verstappen got t-boned by Bottas at Hungary or when Max got a free pit stop in Saudi Arabia because of a red flag. These things happen in F1. It would be boring if it was just the fastest person gets to the front, drives away and nothing unexpected happens. I'm very pleased for Max but my opinion of Lewis has risen markedly through the year as well. Both have given us possibly the best season of F1 ever. Verstappen is the next guy to beat after Lewis and he's got some "abrasive" traits but he's fantastic to watch. Hamilton I don't have a bad word to say about him. Handled this entire title race with real grace and dignity even now it was taken from him with half a lap to go. What a year thanks to both of them. Absolutely brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 @RondónEFC to me though it seemed that they are virtually ignoring the whole of the race? It would be like letting a team get two goals from 2.0 down. It seemed really wrong to me. Why didnt max have to stay 20 seconds or so back? Surely that would be fairer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just now, shut up said: That is what the safety car does. Allowing drivers to unlap isn't even a rule though, it's at the discretion of the race director. The problem was they only selected a few cars and not all lapped cars, that's a bit off. F1 bosses basically decided they wanted a one lap race-off between the two title contenders to see who won, rather than stick to the actual rules. Annoying. Gonna have to come back to it later. Think I may be misunderstanding it a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,661 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just now, Gunnersauraus said: @RondónEFC to me though it seemed that they are virtually ignoring the whole of the race? It would be like letting a team get two goals from 2.0 down. It seemed really wrong to me. Why didnt max have to stay 20 seconds or so back? Surely that would be fairer? The point of the safety car is to neutralise the race and bunch all the cars in one part of the track so that an incident like Latifi's car in the middle of the track can be cleared. It would be daft to spend more laps then reestablishing the gaps. Lewis Hamilton has benefited from the same thing plenty of times in his career. It's just luck. They've gone some way to making it more fair by introducing the virtual safety car and by introducing a rule where drivers have to catch the safety car in a certain time when it comes out. It's very unlucky for Hamilton and Mercedes but the race director's motivation was to get them racing for one more lap. As a neutral, I enjoyed the climax to a brilliant season. If I was a hard-core Hamilton fan, I'd be upset that a race director's decision has decided that race in that fashion. If he let the race finished behind the safety car or didn't move the lapped cars for the final lap, then Verstappen fans would be crying bias and unfairness as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,613 Posted December 12, 2021 Moderator Share Posted December 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, RondónEFC said: That's what happens, red flag, safety car, virtual safety car gives people with nothing to lose a chance to take a gamble. There's a huge element of luck and fortune in racing that you can't remove. It wasn't "fair" when Hamilton got to repair his car under a red flag at Silverstone or when Verstappen got t-boned by Bottas at Hungary or when Max got a free pit stop in Saudi Arabia because of a red flag. These things happen in F1. It would be boring if it was just the fastest person gets to the front, drives away and nothing unexpected happens. I'm very pleased for Max but my opinion of Lewis has risen markedly through the year as well. Both have given us possibly the best season of F1 ever. Verstappen is the next guy to beat after Lewis and he's got some "abrasive" traits but he's fantastic to watch. Hamilton I don't have a bad word to say about him. Handled this entire title race with real grace and dignity even now it was taken from him with half a lap to go. What a year thanks to both of them. Absolutely brilliant. This guy spits truths left and right. The way Lewis handled himself after the race was absolutely pure class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,661 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just remember that this championship was decided over 22 races, not one. Verstappen got the rub of the green today but both of them have at different points in the year. If Hungary was the last race and Hamilton had won the title because of Bottas destroying both Red Bulls on lap one, or even Vettel's disqualification boosting him to 2nd, we'd have all these cries of conspiracies and unfairness in the opposite direction. I do agree though, letting those cars unlap themselves but not all of them is an unprecedented call as far as I know. Masi's argument will be that he didn't want to end the championship by leaving the safety car out or leaving the lapped cars between them. It's flimsy though and in sport you shouldn't make decisions based on what show you want to put on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 You either follow the rules or have the race director make the rules as they go along. Didn’t realise the second one was an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 And both Horner and Verstappen can fuck off. They show their true colours every race they lose and with every decision that goes against them. It’s easy to act humble when you win. Lewis was class today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, RondónEFC said: The point of the safety car is to neutralise the race and bunch all the cars in one part of the track so that an incident like Latifi's car in the middle of the track can be cleared. It would be daft to spend more laps then reestablishing the gaps. Lewis Hamilton has benefited from the same thing plenty of times in his career. It's just luck. They've gone some way to making it more fair by introducing the virtual safety car and by introducing a rule where drivers have to catch the safety car in a certain time when it comes out. It's very unlucky for Hamilton and Mercedes but the race director's motivation was to get them racing for one more lap. As a neutral, I enjoyed the climax to a brilliant season. If I was a hard-core Hamilton fan, I'd be upset that a race director's decision has decided that race in that fashion. If he let the race finished behind the safety car or didn't move the lapped cars for the final lap, then Verstappen fans would be crying bias and unfairness as well. Ok I get that. And if it works both ways it's fair enough. But why cant they just slow down to a slow speed and then restart the race with the original leader with their gap intact? Also I dont really get the controversy over some of the lapped cars being able to overtake the safety car and some not? Why was that an advantage to either? Gotta admit did enjoy it a lot more than I did when I tried to watch it years ago. Never got how tactical it was before . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,501 Posted December 12, 2021 Author Share Posted December 12, 2021 FUCK, FUCK, FUCK. Anyway, what a great season. RB got the rub of the green today but it's been swings and roundabouts all season. I think what annoyed Mercedes was that the decision to allow Max to overtake the cars in front came right near the end of the second to last lap not long after saying they wouldn't be able to overtake. I just hope Mercedes don't go on and on about it with appeals and just lose with dignity. Why didn't Lewis get pitted under any of the SC's? They'd lose track position but were MErc worried about Lewis having to overtake Max and end up being taken out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,661 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: And if it works both ways it's fair enough. But why cant they just slow down to a slow speed and then restart the race with the original leader with their gap intact Because that would take ages. As for the lapped cars. It is down to the race director's discretion. The idea behind letting the lapped cars unlap themselves is so you don't have cars on three different laps, for example, having to all let each other past in the same part of the track. The other factor is that a safety car is unfair if you're say 7th and you've just been lapped, and the guy in 6th is 4 seconds ahead of you and gets to drive off and end up a whole lap ahead of you. That's not fair on those guys either so it's another reason they let them unlap themselves. But because it's down to the race director's discretion I suppose it's why he was able to do that today. I do think it's unprecedented though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just noticed how @nudge likes red bull in racing but hates them in football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,501 Posted December 12, 2021 Author Share Posted December 12, 2021 This year the sport has brought in many fans due to an exciting season. But many are turning away due to confusion over rules. Somebody I know started watching F1 this season. He kept giving the football analogy. I said a SC can be cruel, but how many times does a team dominate for 90 minutes. Not score and concede in injury time? It's the way it is, all sports have unlucky teams and what perceives to be injustice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,661 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just now, shut up said: This is just racing though, no idea how you're trying to compare them to what just happened. None of your examples make sense. There is no rule to let cars unlap, it's at the discretion of the FIA, they said they wouldn't, then red bull complained and so they changed their mind I'm going to have one go at having a rational debate with you but I don't expect to get far when you've clearly thrown your toys out of the pram with this nonsense about Verstappen being the least deserving champion ever. Let's look at two incidents this year that have benefited Hamilton as examples: Imola - Hamilton slides off the track in the rain, breaks his front wing, has to do a three point turn to get out of the gravel trap. While he's in the pits about to come out a lap down, Bottas and Russell have a big crash. Race director chooses to red flag it instead of clearing it under the safety car. Hamilton is allowed to stay on the lead lap and come back to the 2nd place he was running in before his mistake. Britain - Hamilton involved in the incident with Verstappen that was at least 50% his fault. Verstappen is out of the race. Mercedes admit that if there was a safety car instead of a red flag, the damage on Hamilton's car would have forced him to retire. As it happened, they had time to fix it and he went on to win the race. I'm not out to get Hamilton here but the race director has to make decisions all the time that some teams prefer in different circumstances. These are examples of where the decision to throw a red flag have let Hamilton slightly off the hook after mistakes he made. Today was controversial and I wish it hadn't had to finish that way. Blame Latifi who could have crashed two laps earlier or later and he wouldn't have had to make that call. All I'm saying is, if Imola or Silverstone had been the title decider and it had gone Hamilton's way because of one of those two incidents, it would have been very unlucky for Max (like getting hit in Hungary or his tyre exploding in Baku), today it was very unlucky for Hamilton but we shouldn't overblow that just because it was the last race this time. That said, I still don't think Masi can come out and convince any of us that he made the right call beyond all doubt. All I'm trying to say is nobody should take it out on Max or Lewis or anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ 1,388 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 For those curious as to what the fuss is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: Just noticed how @nudge likes red bull in racing but hates them in football I don't care about RB in racing, either, but I can tolerate them there Verstappen is the first driver I truly like since Schumacher, but I couldn't care less for the team he drives for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUFC 1,501 Posted December 12, 2021 Author Share Posted December 12, 2021 Just now, shut up said: Again, like Rando, another false equivalency. This wasn't luck like Bottas taking out Red Bulls. This was the FIA directly influencing the outcome of the race. You can agree with it, but people on here are getting themselves confused and comparing apples and oranges I'd love to explain further but am trying on 3 forums. Also my head is pounding lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ 1,388 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 minute ago, MUFC said: I'd love to explain further but am trying on 3 forums. Also my head is pounding lol. It’s not like you to get all fuzzy headed by dafeet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,661 Posted December 12, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted December 12, 2021 Mercedes have lodged two complaints. Unless you're a fan of one or the other, nobody wants to see this decided in the stewards room or god forbid the courts. This is far from uncharted territory for F1. No less than four championships from 1988-1997 ended in controversy or deliberate crashes at the final race and some even went to the courts or the FIA headquarters. No bias from me, Red Bull would do the same, only faster . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 3 hours ago, MUFC said: Am fucking nervous. Been up since 2.00am. Any picks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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