Grenfell Tower Block Disaster

[The Artful Dodger]

Utterly apppalling and avoidable, our society has to change. 

[Honey Honey]

There are 5 social tenancy tower blocks at the top of the street I live on. Just been past on the way to the co-op and 2 of them look like they've got cladding on them. If you lived there you would be shitting yourself. 

 

[Stan]

10 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

There are 5 social tenancy tower blocks at the top of the street I live on. Just been past on the way to the co-op and 2 of them look like they've got cladding on them. If you lived there you would be shitting yourself. 

 

we've had to speak to hundreds, maybe thousands, of our tenants across Bedfordshire reassuring them about correct procedures and that our buildings are safe. Had so many calls, understandably, since the sad event in London. 

 

 

[Honey Honey]

30 minutes ago, Stan said:

we've had to speak to hundreds, maybe thousands, of our tenants across Bedfordshire reassuring them about correct procedures and that our buildings are safe. Had so many calls, understandably, since the sad event in London. 

Rydon Group have put cladding on many buildings in London so I wonder what can be said to residents of those places.

[Honey Honey]

Emily Thornberry just said on question time "we have not seen a death toll like this since the blitz"

She must have inside information that we don't

[The Artful Dodger]

Well it's likely to be over 100, more than Hillsborougg which is the highest peace time disaster?

The police won't want to release prospective figures because of the horror it brings and also the inability to identity people. This is capitalism.

[Honey Honey]

Police not releasing figures of the missing is capitalism? 

[Honey Honey]

Death toll estimates have been revised down but are expected to surpass 50.

The type of cladding that was used has been banned in the US and marked as highly flammable in Germany. 

The government have been too slow in dealing with regulation of new products and were warned by fire safety experts about flammable products on the market that needed review. A catastrophic failure of the system.

[Fairy In Boots]

6 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Police not releasing figures of the missing is capitalism? 

Bizarre comment really. 

I will say though I find the attempts to politicise this tragedy tasteless. There's a full inquiry ordered and we'll know more then. 

[The Artful Dodger]

4 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Death toll estimates have been revised down but are expected to surpass 50.

The type of cladding that was used has been banned in the US and marked as highly flammable in Germany. 

The government have been too slow in dealing with regulation of new products and were warned by fire safety experts about flammable products on the market that needed review. A catastrophic failure of the system.

Too slow because they're not interested, there's no politicising to be done, this is inherently political. People should not be burning to death like this, there's already tons of evidence about people's concernes raised with the Tory council. I don't know if you saw question time but there was some Tory voter on there saying this was because of immigration. This is a war on the poor and has been going on for three decades. Blame will be shifted around and put on some one person where clearly this is a systemic problem.

[The Artful Dodger]

It's certainly not party political though, the Labour Party has for decades toed the line on the unfettered market, deregulation and promotion of profit above all else has been the UK's mantra.

[Honey Honey]

The Labour party does not toe the line of an unfettered market, if there is even such a market in existence. Regulation is removed or withheld when there is a belief it is not needed. That is open to human error which Gordon Brown knows too well. 

As has been said by the leader of the all party group on fire and safety, they couldn't get through to the government because of a belief that major fires don't happen anymore so there is no need for regulation.

A government that cannot protect its citizens is not fit to govern. Being doubtful on life and death matters when stressed by key expert groups is criminally negligent. 

I've worked with health and safety guys in heavy industry factories and nuclear power plants, they have the threat of jail over them if a disaster emerged out of their complacency, it makes them extremely rigorous in their work. Politicians, coucillors and housing administrators should have the same threat over their head.

[Fairy In Boots]

13 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Too slow because they're not interested, there's no politicising to be done, this is inherently political. People should not be burning to death like this, there's already tons of evidence about people's concernes raised with the Tory council. I don't know if you saw question time but there was some Tory voter on there saying this was because of immigration. This is a war on the poor and has been going on for three decades. Blame will be shifted around and put on some one person where clearly this is a systemic problem.

It's a privately owned building a labour mp is supposedly on the board of the landlord. 

The whole thing looks like it's being hijacked now by far left nutters anyway with the council being attacked and random council workers getting assaulted apparently. 

[The Artful Dodger]

' supposedly' I.e you've made it up, the facts are there already about neglect and private business cutting corners. This is a pivotal moment and the far left nutters are the residents, May cowering behind security when faced with real people. She's lost it.

 

[The Palace Fan]

7 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Theresa May is becoming more and more of an embarrassment as the days progress. I truly worry about her handling our Brexit negotiations. 

The sad thing is if she had three terrorist incidents, an election campaign, and a fire disaster all in the spate of four years she would have handled each situation just as terribly as she has done in the previous three months.

As Harvey has previously said: A Government that cannot protect it's citizens is not fit to govern.

I'd go as far as saying they have no interest in protecting their citizens.

I have seen first hand over the previous six years how the public services have been overworked and how the mental health sector inparticular has been completely neglected to put even more strain on these resources. From paramedics, to doctors, to councillors, to council workers, to social workers, to the police. I'm amazed the NHS in particular has not collapsed and this Government relies too much on the sheer determination of the emergency services to save there skin because these workers want to do well for people. Yet the Government don't appreciate it and will continue to strip away at the NHS resources to save money for there own personal gain.

I use this comparison a lot but in a couple of decades there will probably be another Robin Hood film and the bad characters could easily be related to some of the key figureheads in The Tory Government over the previous six years.

[Dr. Gonzo]

43 minutes ago, Cannabis said:

Theresa May is becoming more and more of an embarrassment as the days progress. I truly worry about her handling our Brexit negotiations. 

She's incredibly out of touch... and didn't even want Brexit in the first place. I didn't either, but I'd rather have someone more in sync with the fucking country doing the negotiating than Maybot.

[Honey Honey]

Everyone knows Theresa May isn't fit to be leader, she is awkward and distant and this will just further guarantee that she is a goner sooner rather than later.

Gavin Barwell is the perfect match to be her chief of staff based on his response to the cameras today. Handled appallingly. He reacted like a shamed rapist coming out of a trial. 

The protests were fantastic as the locals forced a response where there had been a lack of leadership. They were right to go there and put the squeeze on the authorities. 

However it did start to teeter on the brink when a few covered their faces ready to get violent and destructive. The good cause is in danger of being hijacked and there is a risk of an organised rent a mob coming out tomorrow looking for trouble based on what some militants are trying to encourage on social media. Hope it doesn't happen as it will totally take away from the issues of the real people involved.

[Fairy In Boots]

3 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

' supposedly' I.e you've made it up, the facts are there already about neglect and private business cutting corners. This is a pivotal moment and the far left nutters are the residents, May cowering behind security when faced with real people. She's lost it.

 

Oh you're a fucking rabid loon sometimes. Firstly I've not made it up both the two main parties seem to be well represented across all local authorities for the last decade. 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labours-new-kensington-mp-was-on-housing-scrutiny-committee-a3566661.html

its not stopped mud slinging though. Why let a few corpses get in the way of political opportunism?

I fail to see what this has to do with May, there's probably 5-10 thousand high rises in the UK, most of which will be governed by local authorities or private tenancy.  He job is to ensure there's a system in place for this governance not micro manage everyone and ensure the law is enforced or change it if it's required. Which no doubt will happen after a full public inquiry is completed no doubt whoever is in charge, we'll see legal proceedings and a change in legislation.  

In that sense a full inquiry, and review she's done her job. It seems that doesn't matter though, what matters is she has the personality of a toilet brush. 

The media are playing this up because it's selling more papers or causing more traffic through their pages. The problem is it's emboldened the far left to get involved and it will turn nasty now. 

 

 

Apparently that is being circulated in the area and there's reports a cameraman has been serious assaulted as well as council workers being assaulted. 

I fail to see what I'm making up here to be honest, There's socialist worker flags pictured amongst the crowds in Kensington on the BBC news segment. 

[The Artful Dodger]

As I've said, this isn't a party political issue, Labour have been Tory lite for decades and gone along with their mantra. The council which ignored residents was Conservative though. May is, of course, not directly responsible for this, I've never said that. What she is responsible for is a shambolic response in which has come across as less human than before, if that was possible.

There is clear evidence that cheap options have been taken in regards to cladding that was for aesthetic purposes, that is a result of a corporate culture which has grown out of control in this country, thanks to a political addiction for free market values and ultimately people suffer. While there may be opportunists around, there is palpable anger from the people. This cannot be written off as 'just as an accident'.

[Chaaay AFC]

I have to say the papers like the Mail and The Sun are absolutely disgraceful to put a picture up of the man who's fridge apparently started the fire. What is wrong with them? How in anyway does that help anyone and it just victimises that poor bloke.

[Fairy In Boots]

1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said:

As I've said, this isn't a party political issue, Labour have been Tory lite for decades and gone along with their mantra. The council which ignored residents was Conservative though. May is, of course, not directly responsible for this, I've never said that. What she is responsible for is a shambolic response in which has come across as less human than before, if that was possible.

There is clear evidence that cheap options have been taken in regards to cladding that was for aesthetic purposes, that is a result of a corporate culture which has grown out of control in this country, thanks to a political addiction for free market values and ultimately people suffer. While there may be opportunists around, there is palpable anger from the people. This cannot be written off as 'just as an accident'.

I said a labour MP was on the board and I was "making it up" I post a link referencing Emma Coad a serving Labour MP being involved with a housing scrutiny committee  (just as much as the Tory councillors are involved somewhere no doubt we'll find out in the review) and suddenly it's not a political issue despite you making it political originally by talking about Tory council's and Tory voters blaming immigration. Serious question are you prone to bouts of mental illness? 

[The Artful Dodger]

I'm saying the blame isn't solely on one party, anybody involved should be brought to justice. I'm hardly a fan of new Labour, they are as culpable as the Tories for the pathetic state of many of our inner cities. Clearly though the Conservative council has big questions to answer, whether or not Tory boys like you like it or not.

You are the man who rants on here like a sociopath my friend, hatred and bile in nearly every post. I hope you're different around your family.

[Honey Honey]

Let's keep it classy, there's no need to question someone's mental health.

[The Palace Fan]

200 protesters tried to get into Grenfel tower last night by attempting to breach police corden. Had they got into the building it would have collapsed under their weight and they would all be dead. Whilst angrily protesting the actions or inactions of others maybe people should take a step back and think about their own.

Im surprised it's not being covered more by the media.

[Honey Honey]

Police have said in total 58 known residents are missing and presumed dead, 30 bodies have been recovered but are yet to be identified but could make up 30 of the 58 known missing residents, meaning at least 18 people have not been found, all floors have been visually searched. Some of the missing may be alive and haven't told Police and their may be more people who were in the building who don't live there who may be dead, so the figure could go up. Any information they find as they are investigating that is of public importance will be immediately released. Any residents missing the families must assume are dead.

The 100-200 death toll rumour which was stirring a lot of anger about a lack of clarity does not look as if it will come to fruition based on this information. It is believed that rumour is because in the early phase it took a long time to work out who was alive as after 24 hours 300 were still unaccounted for. Now everyone but 58 have been accounted for.