Jump to content
talkfootball365
  • Welcome to talkfootball365!

    The better place to talk football.

Grenfell Tower Block Disaster


football forum

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 130
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Subscriber

Jesus Christ the internet is embarrassing. Like I said a few days ago, the election is actually over, be nice if people could stop finding flimsy, indirect links between the incident and either political party and trying to suggest that this is somehow proof that Theresa May should resign or Jeremy Corbyn is actually the devil. Fuck's sake.

And yes I am exaggerating, and no I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said:

Stop it Harvz it's the fucking vile Tories, they stopped kids milk you know. 

There are a vast number of different factors at play, some of which the council which is Tory led and Tory majority (though contains other councillors as well) will be under the spot light. Likewise every central government since 1999 will be under investigation. The leader of the council is quite clearly a grade A cunt, that should be said, comes across as a nasty piece of work. We know they have been incompetent handling the aftermath so combined with him being a cunt you can make the case that they bring the negative attention on themselves.

When something is made political before all the evidence and facts then the only politics it will be about is whatever the individual making it political wants it to be about. Without the full picture conclusions are going to be more bias than ever. Some, particularly in the media commentariat, are so convinced of their politics that they are confident enough to basically bet that the evidence will just fall right into place later. An easy bet to make when there are no consequences for being wrong. 

The pursuit of confirmation bias evidence and not full ranging evidence has caused this ugly press situation where they desperately try to expose the blindspots of each other's conclusions. The print press has really become a rerun of election tribes.

Whatever happened to the art of open ended questioning in media reports?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Labour for a generation have been neo-liberal centrists, I would not be shocked at all if blood was on their hands. 

This isn't party political for the reason that the same ideology has not been broken for 40 years. Labour, Tory or liberal this is all about a culture of greed, the evidence of cost cutting is there to see, the evidence of safety measures being voted down in parliament are there to see...what more do people need. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most two party systems boil down to a kick to the left bollock vs a kick to the right bollock. Sometimes the other gets smashed anyway through collateral damage xD Tory v Labour, it sounds exactly like Australia; Labour v Liberal; which sounds exactly like the USA: GOP v Democrats...which also sounds like Canada: Reds v Blues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

There are a vast number of different factors at play, some of which the council which is Tory led and Tory majority (though contains other councillors as well) will be under the spot light. Likewise every central government since 1999 will be under investigation. The leader of the council is quite clearly a grade A cunt, that should be said, comes across as a nasty piece of work. We know they have been incompetent handling the aftermath so combined with him being a cunt you can make the case that they bring the negative attention on themselves.

When something is made political before all the evidence and facts then the only politics it will be about is whatever the individual making it political wants it to be about. Without the full picture conclusions are going to be more bias than ever. Some, particularly in the media commentariat, are so convinced of their politics that they are confident enough to basically bet that the evidence will just fall right into place later. An easy bet to make when there are no consequences for being wrong. 

The pursuit of confirmation bias evidence and not full ranging evidence has caused this ugly press situation where they desperately try to expose the blindspots of each other's conclusions. The print press has really become a rerun of election tribes.

Whatever happened to the art of open ended questioning in media reports?

I know mate, I'm just being flippant. I find the actual grandstanding by politicians over this quite disgraceful, I hope the electorate have long memories when the report is done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Labour for a generation have been neo-liberal centrists, I would not be shocked at all if blood was on their hands. 

This isn't party political for the reason that the same ideology has not been broken for 40 years. Labour, Tory or liberal this is all about a culture of greed, the evidence of cost cutting is there to see, the evidence of safety measures being voted down in parliament are there to see...what more do people need. 

 

Classic fish hook theory. Everyone who isn't far left is exactly the same as each other.

You have been posting with quick flimsy soundbites about greed, neo-liberalism, anti-capitalism. These are cultural conclusions of the emerging and selected evidence based on your predetermined position and desire to overthrow the culture. We don't have all the evidence to make pragmatic conclusions at this stage, it is these pragmatic type of conclusions from which governments incrementally progress society.

Just because Marxists don't have a credible party or much support does not mean they too aren't leaking their predetermined political desires all over this disaster. Pure opportunism, that is what the soundbites are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

You don't have to use generalised Marxist platitudes about capitalism, class war and neo-liberalism to be critical of complacency towards health and safety.

I saw a article somewhere that suggested they had use cladding because it traps heat which improved the energy efficiency and helped them comply with green quotas. Again need to wait for the enquiry as it could be bollocks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said:

I saw a article somewhere that suggested they had use cladding because it traps heat which improved the energy efficiency and helped them comply with green quotas. Again need to wait for the enquiry as it could be bollocks

I've heard that as well but mainly from people trying to push their anti-green agenda. I don't see how the environmental properties are or can be relevant, unless I'm missing some line of inquiry? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I was talking to a guy I know who does fire safety installations & inspection and he said to me the following: 

"The Grenfell Tower didn't have sprinklers and most council flats don't have sprinklers. That's not just in London either. He says he's  inspected council flats all across the country. This is predominately down to one very good reason - vandalism. Sadly, most council owed properties are subject to a hell of a lot of vandalism on a daily basis. Installing a system that can potentially cause vast amounts of damage just isn't safe.
There has also been talk that the fire alarm system was 'inadequate'. He didn't know what exactly was in there, but the chances are that there may not have been a particularly sophisticated system. Again, this is down to vandalism, as well as strain on the local fire department. If systems are constantly being activated, tampered with or damaged then they either won't work, or will cause vast amounts of false alarms and unwanted call-outs by fire brigades. Every station is different, but most will either eventually refuse to respond and/or start charging for false alarms.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
On 2017-6-22 at 6:44 PM, Fairy In Boots said:

So I was talking to a guy I know who does fire safety installations & inspection and he said to me the following: 

"The Grenfell Tower didn't have sprinklers and most council flats don't have sprinklers. That's not just in London either. He says he's  inspected council flats all across the country. This is predominately down to one very good reason - vandalism. Sadly, most council owed properties are subject to a hell of a lot of vandalism on a daily basis. Installing a system that can potentially cause vast amounts of damage just isn't safe.
There has also been talk that the fire alarm system was 'inadequate'. He didn't know what exactly was in there, but the chances are that there may not have been a particularly sophisticated system. Again, this is down to vandalism, as well as strain on the local fire department. If systems are constantly being activated, tampered with or damaged then they either won't work, or will cause vast amounts of false alarms and unwanted call-outs by fire brigades. Every station is different, but most will either eventually refuse to respond and/or start charging for false alarms.

 

 

i mnetoned this earlier in the thread. it costs a huge amount to install sprinklers and once installed, if they go on to be vandalised or used for the wrong reasons, this is also a huge cost to maintain or replace any damage from the resulting use of it. Water tanks need to be installed as well, and maintained, to ensure the sprinklers were to work sufficiently and effectively. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stan said:

i mnetoned this earlier in the thread. it costs a huge amount to install sprinklers and once installed, if they go on to be vandalised or used for the wrong reasons, this is also a huge cost to maintain or replace any damage from the resulting use of it. Water tanks need to be installed as well, and maintained, to ensure the sprinklers were to work sufficiently and effectively. 

The regulation and inspection alone will be expensive. We the tax payer will fork out for this mess

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Fucking hell, there really are a load of psychotic pieces of shit out there. Seeing sick jokes online is something everyone's used to but then there's people putting effort into their disgusting behaviour for no apparent purpose other than to be extremely offensive. Confusing as to how someone gets to that level of being a cunt.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Subscriber
36 minutes ago, 6666 said:

Fucking hell, there really are a load of psychotic pieces of shit out there. Seeing sick jokes online is something everyone's used to but then there's people putting effort into their disgusting behaviour for no apparent purpose other than to be extremely offensive. Confusing as to how someone gets to that level of being a cunt.

Bloody sick, I just can't be bothered adding the video in this quote (no offence intended to you) but I just could not even look at the video, the person(s) who did that need flogging with 20 fireworks stuck up their jacksie, rockets preferably.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

5 men arrested for Public Order offences. 

One is 19, 3 in their 40s and the other is 55.

You gotta be different levels of absolute fucktard to do this and think you'd get away with it once the video is out in the public. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 06/11/2018 at 07:49, Stan said:

5 men arrested for Public Order offences. 

One is 19, 3 in their 40s and the other is 55.

You gotta be different levels of absolute fucktard to do this and think you'd get away with it once the video is out in the public. 

They probably won't get in trouble for it. They were arrested because it could have been classed as a hate crime but because it was a joke they probably won't get prosecuted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...
  • Subscriber

944256108_DONTDELETE.thumb.png.77842f5a8ec91753fabe319d9dd24dd5.png

Grenfell Tower: Hundreds of buildings still have 'unsafe' cladding

More than 200 high-rise buildings in England with cladding similar to that used on Grenfell Tower are yet to have work to remove it.

Out of 328 buildings that still have aluminium composite material (ACM) cladding, 221 are awaiting work to start.

Events on Friday will mark the second anniversary of the Grenfell Tower fire in which 72 people died.

The government will pay £200m to remove ACM from privately owned blocks.

There have been calls for the funding to be extended to other forms of cladding and fire safety measures.

Highly combustible

The government ordered a review into cladding on high-rise blocks following the tragedy, when a blaze broke out in the 24-storey block of flats in North Kensington, west London.

It took minutes for the fire to race up the exterior of the building and spread to all four sides.

A public inquiry into the disaster heard evidence to support the theory that the highly combustible material in the cladding was the primary cause of the fire's spread.

As of the end of May, 105 other high-rise buildings that had previously failed safety tests have had work to remove the cladding completed.

The data only covers ACM cladding and does not include buildings with other fire safety issues.

Ahead of the second anniversary of the fire, campaigners projected messages on to tower blocks in Salford, Newcastle and London which they said were unsafe.

The projection on to the NV building in Salford, which has 246 flats, said it was "still covered in dangerous cladding" that was not covered by the government's cladding removal fund.

Memorial services and vigils will be held throughout Friday to mark the second anniversary of the fire.

Survivors and families will be joined by communities secretary James Brokenshire and fire minister Nick Hurd for a remembrance service in St Helen's Church, close to Grenfell Tower.

Britain's Got Talent semi-finalist and Grenfell survivor Leanne Mya will sing during the service and white doves will be released afterwards.

Other multi-faith services will also take place around the area, along with a private wreath-laying, a remembrance event in which 72 bells will be rung - one for each victim - and a silent walk organised by survivors' group Grenfell United.

Karim Mussilhy, whose uncle died in the fire, said: "Our plan is to come together with the rest of the community and be with each other, share some tears with each other, smiles with each other, and put our arms around each other and remember our loved ones and pay our respects.

"We also want to be a presence to everyone else, show them that we are still here and we are still standing strong together, dignified, respectful, we aren't going to go away, we're not going to fade away and we're not going to let others forget our loved ones and for us to be swept under the carpet."

_107353363_cladding1-nc.png

There are high-rise buildings with ACM cladding in 62 local authority areas across England.

Greenwich, Tower Hamlets and Salford were all found to have at least 20 buildings each with the cladding.

Brent, Newham, Wandsworth, Westminster and Manchester have between 11 and 20 each, while Camden, Haringey, Islington, Lambeth, Leeds and Liverpool have between six and 10 each.

Ministers have promised a £200m fund to help remove the material from private residential tower blocks.

However, leaseholders said the fund did not go far enough and they would still be left facing bills of thousands of pounds for other fire safety measures.

Alex Di Giuseppe, who lives at City Gate, a block with ACM cladding in Manchester, said leaseholders were being expected to pay between £4,000 and £7,000, depending on the size of the flat.

They were now waiting to find out how much the government funding might reduce the bill by.

"The government fund covers the ACM cladding, which helps, but doesn't cover any other type of cladding or fire safety work," said the 29-year-old, who works in marketing.

"There's a lot of stress involved living in a building that's technically unsafe.

"There are costs we can't afford and we can't sell our flats. We are mortgage prisoners."

A spokeswoman for the building's management agent Rendall and Rittner said mandatory internal work relating to fire safety was complete. She added the company was applying for government funding "to reduce costs to leaseholders as far as is possible".

Manchester Central MP Lucy Powell told the House of Commons: "Residents are trapped in dangerous properties.

"The fund does not cover many buildings in my constituency that have other cladding - not ACM cladding - or that have no firebreaks or other safety concerns."

Grenfell United wants a social housing regulator created to ensure tenants are listened to when they raise concerns and for dangerous materials including cladding to be banned and removed from homes.

Natasha Elcock, who chairs the organisation and is a survivor from the tower, said: "It's been two years since Grenfell and people are still going to bed at night worried that a fire like Grenfell could happen to them."

The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government said: "The government has banned combustible materials in the external walls of new high-rise homes and guidance requires that sprinklers must be installed in new buildings above 30 metres.

"Building owners are ultimately responsible for the safety of the building and it is for them to decide whether to retro-fit sprinklers."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48609595

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


Sign up or subscribe to remove this ad.


×
×
  • Create New...