Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted January 6, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted January 6, 2022 Alright, so I will give it a start with my thoughts and some things I wanted to discuss ever since finishing watching the movie. Putting it all in spoiler tags, just in case some still haven't finished and will come across my post. Spoiler First of all, I think it's a gem and an underrated masterpiece that should be in the top lists much more often than it is. As I probably mentioned already, for me, Sergio Leone is a majestic storyteller and it also shows in the scope of themes and topics the film explores through its moody, introspective and pensive lens dressed as a gangster story - coming of age, friendship and relationships, betrayal, the passing of time, dreams and memories. Somewhat of a side note, but after watching it, I realised that Scorcese's The Irishman was influenced heavily by Leone's Once Upon A Time in America, both in subject matter, style and themes. I believe Leone left the film very much open to interpretation on purpose... So, now onto my main point of discussion. Do you believe all events (both in the 30s and the 60s) portrayed in the movie were real, or do you think the future storyline was just an opium-induced trip created in Noodles mind, troubled with guilt and regret? The more I think about it, the more I lean towards it being a dream, a fantasy created in Noodles' mind to absolve him of guilt by creating an alternative version of events where he turns out to be the victim of Max's con instead of being the one responsible for the deaths of his best friends, and also the one where he reconciles with Deborah years after her rejection and rape. The surreal, somewhat chaotic dreamy-like sequences and transitions from the past to the future throughout the film have a strong resemblance to dreams and memories getting mixed with imagination. This is particularly the case at the end of the movie, in the waste disposal truck scene where Max suddenly disappears behind it mysteriously, and as the truck drives away, three vintage cars with people dressed in retro clothes appear and drive past Noodles. The movie ending right there where the whole story started - with young Noodles arriving at the Chinese opium den, getting high and smiling into the camera - is a fantastic touch, and the main reason why I think it was all an opium-induced dream, a reflection of Noodles past and a vision of the future that makes him feel good. Thoughts? Also, I would like to mention the scene where Patsy brings Peggy a 5-cent cupcake to exchange it for sex, but can't resist it and eats it himself while he's waiting for her to come out. It was soooo good, probably one of the most memorable scenes in cinema for me. The conflict between the desires in him was almost poetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,547 Posted January 6, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 hours ago, nudge said: Alright, so I will give it a start with my thoughts and some things I wanted to discuss ever since finishing watching the movie. Putting it all in spoiler tags, just in case some still haven't finished and will come across my post. Reveal hidden contents First of all, I think it's a gem and an underrated masterpiece that should be in the top lists much more often than it is. As I probably mentioned already, for me, Sergio Leone is a majestic storyteller and it also shows in the scope of themes and topics the film explores through its moody, introspective and pensive lens dressed as a gangster story - coming of age, friendship and relationships, betrayal, the passing of time, dreams and memories. Somewhat of a side note, but after watching it, I realised that Scorcese's The Irishman was influenced heavily by Leone's Once Upon A Time in America, both in subject matter, style and themes. I believe Leone left the film very much open to interpretation on purpose... So, now onto my main point of discussion. Do you believe all events (both in the 30s and the 60s) portrayed in the movie were real, or do you think the future storyline was just an opium-induced trip created in Noodles mind, troubled with guilt and regret? The more I think about it, the more I lean towards it being a dream, a fantasy created in Noodles' mind to absolve him of guilt by creating an alternative version of events where he turns out to be the victim of Max's con instead of being the one responsible for the deaths of his best friends, and also the one where he reconciles with Deborah years after her rejection and rape. The surreal, somewhat chaotic dreamy-like sequences and transitions from the past to the future throughout the film have a strong resemblance to dreams and memories getting mixed with imagination. This is particularly the case at the end of the movie, in the waste disposal truck scene where Max suddenly disappears behind it mysteriously, and as the truck drives away, three vintage cars with people dressed in retro clothes appear and drive past Noodles. The movie ending right there where the whole story started - with young Noodles arriving at the Chinese opium den, getting high and smiling into the camera - is a fantastic touch, and the main reason why I think it was all an opium-induced dream, a reflection of Noodles past and a vision of the future that makes him feel good. Thoughts? Also, I would like to mention the scene where Patsy brings Peggy a 5-cent cupcake to exchange it for sex, but can't resist it and eats it himself while he's waiting for her to come out. It was soooo good, probably one of the most memorable scenes in cinema for me. The conflict between the desires in him was almost poetic. I'm gunna try and reply on mobile so forgive my mistakes. I'm so happy you nominated this one I would probably have never watched it otherwise and boy would I have missed out. Once I saw it was Leone I figured I would love it. first off you 100% see the influences in the Irishman, it was cool to see. I'm also on board with the entire thing taking place in the opium induced dream den. I love that the movie is set up and you can take it both ways and it's absolutely intentional with the next level story telling done here. There's so many little details, like you mentioned the garbage truck the clearly 1930s cars that go by after and the fact that the entire sequence of old noodles just seems perfectly convinent for everything to fall into place to make him out to not be the bad guy. Like his friend plotting the entire revenge story of 30 year's and even fathering a child with the love of his life who of course forgives him to boot for the heinous act. I don't buy it. Then of course the last scene of 30s noodles going to the opium den and smiling up.. Definetly feels like that would be the true first scene setting up the entire drug enduced future having just gotten his friends murdered and raping the love of his life. There's just so much here I'm glad we started with this one. You said it well, it's a gangster flick first and foremost these guys where brutal, cold and calculated. But it's much more then just that, the love story, the coming of age story about noodles and the kids all finding themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted January 7, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 7, 2022 12 hours ago, Viva la FCB said: I'm gunna try and reply on mobile so forgive my mistakes. I'm so happy you nominated this one I would probably have never watched it otherwise and boy would I have missed out. Once I saw it was Leone I figured I would love it. Hide contents first off you 100% see the influences in the Irishman, it was cool to see. I'm also on board with the entire thing taking place in the opium induced dream den. I love that the movie is set up and you can take it both ways and it's absolutely intentional with the next level story telling done here. There's so many little details, like you mentioned the garbage truck the clearly 1930s cars that go by after and the fact that the entire sequence of old noodles just seems perfectly convinent for everything to fall into place to make him out to not be the bad guy. Like his friend plotting the entire revenge story of 30 year's and even fathering a child with the love of his life who of course forgives him to boot for the heinous act. I don't buy it. Then of course the last scene of 30s noodles going to the opium den and smiling up.. Definetly feels like that would be the true first scene setting up the entire drug enduced future having just gotten his friends murdered and raping the love of his life. There's just so much here I'm glad we started with this one. You said it well, it's a gangster flick first and foremost these guys where brutal, cold and calculated. But it's much more then just that, the love story, the coming of age story about noodles and the kids all finding themselves. Very glad to hear that you liked it, too... I was meaning to watch it for years; have started at least once or twice some 15 years aog, but never managed to fully commit to watching it until now. The length of the film might see intimidating, but the storytelling is so good, I simply got lost in it and didn't even notice time passing. What's interesting is that Leone intended the movie to be 6 hours long Unfortunately, no copies of that version survived... Spoiler I did some digging and found an interesting quote by Leone from the book of Noel Simsolo: "The peculiarity of opium is a drug that makes you imagine the future as the past. Opium creates visions of the future. Other drugs only make you see the past. Thus whilst Noodles dreams how his life could have been and whilst he imagines his future, it gives me, as a European director, the possibility of dreaming inside American myth. And that's it, the ideal combination. We walk together. Noodles with his dream. And me with mine. These are two poems that fuse together. Because, as far as the matters which concern me, Noodles never leaves 1930. He dreams everything. All the film is the opium dream of Noodles through which I dream of the phantoms of cinema and American myths." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 17 hours ago, nudge said: You don't remember a whole lot?... Surely, you must have some thoughts about the story and the ending, at the very least? I thought the overall story was good but watching it through 2021 eyes, the way it was told didn't age that well in my opinion. I thought there was a lot of empty space in the movie and for me it wasn't the type that helped create atmosphere. Overall, I'm glad I watched it but it didn't really blow me away. 6.5/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Here it is folks. Spoilers ahead so do be careful if you haven’t watched it yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waylander 166 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Is that the one with James Woods or a remake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted January 7, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 7, 2022 52 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: Here it is folks. Spoilers ahead so do be careful if you haven’t watched it yet! Could you please move the discussion posts from the other thread?... Me and @Viva la FCB started it last night already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted January 7, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 7, 2022 27 minutes ago, Waylander said: Is that the one with James Woods or a remake? Yep, the original one with James Woods and Robert de Niro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,547 Posted January 7, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted January 7, 2022 10 hours ago, nudge said: Very glad to hear that you liked it, too... I was meaning to watch it for years; have started at least once or twice some 15 years aog, but never managed to fully commit to watching it until now. The length of the film might see intimidating, but the storytelling is so good, I simply got lost in it and didn't even notice time passing. What's interesting is that Leone intended the movie to be 6 hours long Unfortunately, no copies of that version survived... Reveal hidden contents I did some digging and found an interesting quote by Leone from the book of Noel Simsolo: "The peculiarity of opium is a drug that makes you imagine the future as the past. Opium creates visions of the future. Other drugs only make you see the past. Thus whilst Noodles dreams how his life could have been and whilst he imagines his future, it gives me, as a European director, the possibility of dreaming inside American myth. And that's it, the ideal combination. We walk together. Noodles with his dream. And me with mine. These are two poems that fuse together. Because, as far as the matters which concern me, Noodles never leaves 1930. He dreams everything. All the film is the opium dream of Noodles through which I dream of the phantoms of cinema and American myths." Yeah I don't think I could have done a 6 hour version... 4 was plenty It do go by rather easily though I agree. I just chose to break it when noodles goes on the lavish date with his love. Yeah that quote makes alot of sense in how everything was constructed. The opium dreaming is kind of the only way I could see it, otherwise why would he jump around in timelines for one and the other is why else would the opium be so prominent. The end scene for me is what tells you everything.. From the garbage truck to the cars and leaving off with the opium den again in the 30s. As much as I love alot of the spaghetti Westerns.. Especially Leone's work this has to be his crowning achievement. On an unrelated note I was watching a little clip on YouTube of Tarantino just gushing about it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted January 9, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 9, 2022 @Viva la FCB I think we should open our own exclusive film club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 For a second I thought this was Once Upon A Time In Hollywood and when you wrote “underrated masterpiece” I was about to report you for crimes against humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 I might watch it tomorrow. But I really have to finish this book that’s weighing me down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted January 9, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, Spike said: I might watch it tomorrow. But I really have to finish this book that’s weighing me down Which book is that?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, nudge said: Which book is that?? Dune. I powered through 50% in a day and then got a part that was nothing more than a chore and could barely get through a page a wekk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 I’ll write something barely comprehensive when I’m feeling better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,547 Posted January 10, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Spike said: Dune. I powered through 50% in a day and then got a part that was nothing more than a chore and could barely get through a page a wekk I actually just started reading it only about 2 chapters in but im gonna get through some more today. I honestly havent read a real book since Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep... and honestly thats probably 5 years ago Dune got me interested enough to dive back in. Also ordered the Witcher series to plow through when Im done. 9 hours ago, nudge said: @Viva la FCB I think we should open our own exclusive film club Im into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 25 minutes ago, Viva la FCB said: I actually just started reading it only about 2 chapters in but im gonna get through some more today. I honestly havent read a real book since Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep... and honestly thats probably 5 years ago Dune got me interested enough to dive back in. Also ordered the Witcher series to plow through when Im done. Im into it I can’t imagine liking the movie while reading Dune, or vice versa. 99% of the novel has people thinking about politics and pseudo religious philosophy. They’ll say one line followed by two pages of internal monologue. The casting choices also horrify me for both films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 So……. I actually loved the way this was filmed. The way the camera moves often helps tell the story and it was done to perfection. The closeups on the characters, it seemed to catch the real emotion in several scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 19 hours ago, Viva la FCB said: I actually just started reading it only about 2 chapters in but im gonna get through some more today. I was about 6 pages in before Covid struck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ 2,547 Posted January 10, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted January 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, DeadLinesman said: I was about 6 pages in before Covid struck. Sorry to hear man, hopefully you and the family get through it alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted January 12, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 12, 2022 When are we doing the next movie, @DeadLinesman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 16 minutes ago, nudge said: When are we doing the next movie, @DeadLinesman? I’ll get vote up again. All films under 2 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 I guess I'm the only one that didn't think the film was great... either that or the others that watched the film are staying quiet because they're cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted January 13, 2022 Author Subscriber Share Posted January 13, 2022 28 minutes ago, 6666 said: I guess I'm the only one that didn't think the film was great... either that or the others that watched the film are staying quiet because they're cowards. Most likely, nobody else has watched it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber JoshBRFC+ 1,388 Posted January 16, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted January 16, 2022 Absolute masterpiece of a movie. One of many that i watched in my teens/early 20's and then later re-watched. I re-watched it a few months back and still feel after reading the OP in this thread that i could do with watching it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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