FA Cup 2021/22 - Fourth Round Matches

[Dan+]

7 hours ago, Rick said:

I mean, if a podgy little fucker comes on like that, one of those players have to drop him. State of him, fat prick. 

Rodgers would be gone if this was a premier league game, but he’ll survive with it being the cup. 

Rodgers' future is being saved by some credit in the bank from previous seasons and the security he has in his contract. When Arsenal were linked in late 2019 he signed a new bumper contract, which makes him the 4th highest paid manager in the league, on a deal until 2025. He has us by the balls. We blinked and he got a great deal. Seemed great at the time. Now I think it's strangling us. (I wasn't aiming all of this at you by the way, kind of went off on a tangent in this post though as a Liverpool fan you'll probably be able to relate to some of it).

The fact it's a cup game wasn't relevant. Forest is a big game to us (and it's big to them as well, as much as they pretend otherwise), the first meeting in eight years. To go there as holders, to a lower league Forest and lose 4-1 is a sliding doors moment for him. The fanbase has been quite divided on him this season. I've quietly felt it would probably be best if we went seperate ways for a lot of the season if I'm honest, which sounds mad given what's happened under him, but I sensed the dip was coming. We've been awful for a year now. The cup win was great, but a real anomaly as the performances in the second half of last season were generally poor, generally bailed out by Iheanacho.

This season has been picked up where we left off in the league, only there's literally not one redeeming factor this time. Mediocrity in the league where virtually every performance metric tells you we've been no better than Everton or Leeds. Totally bottled the League Cup and an extremely rare win at Anfield which was on a plate for us. Absolutely shite in Europe, and now the most painful of the lot, totally fucked in the arse at Forest in the FA Cup, as the holders.

If last summer is anything to go by I'm really worried about what this squad overhaul is going to entail. If it's paying premium for 'proven' Premier League players, aka, have played in the league for a bottom half side, while we see a genuine top midfielder depart and a few others then we have a real problem. His track record does not stack up well when it comes to recruitment.

The majority of issues this season have stemmed from him as well. We can blame bad luck with injuries but there comes a point where it's such a permanent issue that you have to think it's something being done wrong within the club. Again, this is not the first time this has happened to him.

The level of organisation has nosedived. We concede 2 or more in the majority of games, often 3. We've conceded a sickening amount of goals from corners.

He's done here in my eyes. I knew it was dipping but it says something to me that even Stan is saying some of these things now, because he's been a very ardent Rodgers backer, and if he's saying time to go then you know it's gotten bad.

That earlier was the final nail for many. That's a painful, humiliating result. That fixture means a lot to people. To serve that up is nothing short of a disgrace.

Only Liverpool away next. Fuck sake.

[Stan]

7 hours ago, Dan said:

Rodgers' future is being saved by some credit in the bank from previous seasons and the security he has in his contract. When Arsenal were linked in late 2019 he signed a new bumper contract, which makes him the 4th highest paid manager in the league, on a deal until 2025. He has us by the balls. We blinked and he got a great deal. Seemed great at the time. Now I think it's strangling us. (I wasn't aiming all of this at you by the way, kind of went off on a tangent in this post though as a Liverpool fan you'll probably be able to relate to some of it).

The fact it's a cup game wasn't relevant. Forest is a big game to us (and it's big to them as well, as much as they pretend otherwise), the first meeting in eight years. To go there as holders, to a lower league Forest and lose 4-1 is a sliding doors moment for him. The fanbase has been quite divided on him this season. I've quietly felt it would probably be best if we went seperate ways for a lot of the season if I'm honest, which sounds mad given what's happened under him, but I sensed the dip was coming. We've been awful for a year now. The cup win was great, but a real anomaly as the performances in the second half of last season were generally poor, generally bailed out by Iheanacho.

This season has been picked up where we left off in the league, only there's literally not one redeeming factor this time. Mediocrity in the league where virtually every performance metric tells you we've been no better than Everton or Leeds. Totally bottled the League Cup and an extremely rare win at Anfield which was on a plate for us. Absolutely shite in Europe, and now the most painful of the lot, totally fucked in the arse at Forest in the FA Cup, as the holders.

If last summer is anything to go by I'm really worried about what this squad overhaul is going to entail. If it's paying premium for 'proven' Premier League players, aka, have played in the league for a bottom half side, while we see a genuine top midfielder depart and a few others then we have a real problem. His track record does not stack up well when it comes to recruitment.

The majority of issues this season have stemmed from him as well. We can blame bad luck with injuries but there comes a point where it's such a permanent issue that you have to think it's something being done wrong within the club. Again, this is not the first time this has happened to him.

The level of organisation has nosedived. We concede 2 or more in the majority of games, often 3. We've conceded a sickening amount of goals from corners.

He's done here in my eyes. I knew it was dipping but it says something to me that even Stan is saying some of these things now, because he's been a very ardent Rodgers backer, and if he's saying time to go then you know it's gotten bad.

That earlier was the final nail for many. That's a painful, humiliating result. That fixture means a lot to people. To serve that up is nothing short of a disgrace.

Only Liverpool away next. Fuck sake.

Pretty much spot on.

Any football fan can (eventually) take losing a game. It's raw, and it hurts. And it's made easier because you know the team might have given their best. Given their all and given everything they have to get the desired outcome. But we saw none of that yesterday. It was literally the perfect opportunity to basically show everyone you still have what it takes to a) get the players properly psyched up for the game and b) really prove to everyone you're not done here. There was a distinct lack of hunger, desire, determination shown and that could indicate the manager isn't getting his message across to get them up for a big game. Confidence appears shot and it's a sign of the weak mentality in the squad generally. The atmosphere sounded unreal last night and some of the players shat their pants. 

I find it ironic he called out players play as if they have 'achieved all they can here'. Maybe it's the case for him?

I don't think he stays beyond end of the season, but if he does, weirdly I'm not as worried as you about the recruitment. Bertrand and Vestergaard are two massive stains on the recruitment, but then you have players like Fofana, Justin, Daka countering that. It's not the best, it's not the worst it's ever been. 

 

[Waylander]

Forest's manager, Steve Cooper sure I have seen him on the mainstream football news before.

Has he pulled off another big upset in the FA Cup?

[Stan]

16 minutes ago, Waylander said:

Forest's manager, Steve Cooper sure I have seen him on the mainstream football news before.

Has he pulled off another big upset in the FA Cup?

They beat Arsenal in the 3rd round?

 

[Waylander]

18 hours ago, Whiskey said:

All OK @Dan?

Early 90's I remember once being at Palace in the old big terrace and Chelsea were getting the worst of some refereeing decisions and someone decides to go for the ref. He must have sprinted a third of the pitch before the stewards realised and manically sprinted to intercept.

It was a 50:50 as to whether he would get to the ref before they stopped him, regrettably that was probably the CFC highlight for that Saturday.

[Dan+]

8 hours ago, Stan said:

Pretty much spot on.

Any football fan can (eventually) take losing a game. It's raw, and it hurts. And it's made easier because you know the team might have given their best. Given their all and given everything they have to get the desired outcome. But we saw none of that yesterday. It was literally the perfect opportunity to basically show everyone you still have what it takes to a) get the players properly psyched up for the game and b) really prove to everyone you're not done here. There was a distinct lack of hunger, desire, determination shown and that could indicate the manager isn't getting his message across to get them up for a big game. Confidence appears shot and it's a sign of the weak mentality in the squad generally. The atmosphere sounded unreal last night and some of the players shat their pants. 

I find it ironic he called out players play as if they have 'achieved all they can here'. Maybe it's the case for him?

I don't think he stays beyond end of the season, but if he does, weirdly I'm not as worried as you about the recruitment. Bertrand and Vestergaard are two massive stains on the recruitment, but then you have players like Fofana, Justin, Daka countering that. It's not the best, it's not the worst it's ever been. 

Weighing up the recruitment since he's been here, it's tough to know who is behind what exactly, but I'd throw Perez into the category with Bertrand and Vestergaard, maybe not quite as disastrous as he's at least had a few decent games but for the money paid it has represented poor value for money. I've for years argued against buying from other Premier League clubs for this reason. A league full of clubs with no financial pressure to sell, receiving massive money just for being in the league. If I could trust that we'd stick to the previous model then I'd have far less worries, but I think we're approaching a crossroads and the track record really doesn't fill me with confidence that we're going to do anything other than buy our way to mediocrity.

It's not to say it's been all rubbish but it's been mediocre at best. Daka, Fofana and Justin were the best buys. I think the whole process of Praet/Soumare is an error that isn't spoken of enough. So we spent about £20mil to buy Praet, paid him handsomely because he wasn't sold on the idea of coming here, never really got a decent run in the side, was let go on loan to Torino after two years of being in and out of the side for us to then do exactly the same thing with Soumare, who may come good, but I think on the evidence so far he's further from holding a place down than Praet was. It's errors like this, they're costly for someone like us. The reason we've ever got ourselves into the position in the first place was buying excellently, getting an immense value for money with signings, once we start routinely frittering it away we're going to lose that advantage we've built up. Clubs like Villa, West Ham, Everton, and obviously now Newcastle too can pay more than us. We've got to get bang for our buck to keep this up.

I'll never be filly privvy to what goes on there but I would like to hear Rodgers actual plan for this summer. What he really wants to do in this upcoming overhaul.

But in truth I think after yesterday, which was probably the worst of a number of appalling capitulations this season he's never going to win people back over. It's a shame but these things have a shelf life.

[Dan+]

Appreciate this isn't the LCFC thread but just along these lines, Rob Tanner who is pretty well connected tonight saying Rodgers went over the recruitment to bring in Vestergaard & Bertrand. It's exactly the kind of stuff that's always concerned me about him, something that takes a while to really kick in but that he wants to oversee everything, even if what's currently in place is working fine.

Read a good thread on Twitter from a Liverpool fan earlier about him saying how he never got on with Michael Edwards and that whole situation about "you sign one, I sign one" (which is a totally ridiculous way to operate), how Klopp slotted straight into what Edwards was doing and you only have to see the results. The fact Klopp himself will do this proves that part of the quality of being a top manager is the ability to delegate, the ability to trust some of the cogs in the machine. Rodgers seems to think he can do it all and he doesn't even need to.

If he's learnt his lesson I'd be less concerned about this kind of thing, but history seems to be repeating itself and I don't see it twigging in his head in the summer. Maybe it will, but my head errs on the side of him not, and continuing some of this silliness.

Leicester are a redeemable situation. I firmly believe we can get back into Europe and get good again. I just don't think it'll be him that does it. I'd want a manager who knows what good he has around him.

[LFCMike]

On 08/02/2022 at 01:25, Dan said:

Appreciate this isn't the LCFC thread but just along these lines, Rob Tanner who is pretty well connected tonight saying Rodgers went over the recruitment to bring in Vestergaard & Bertrand. It's exactly the kind of stuff that's always concerned me about him, something that takes a while to really kick in but that he wants to oversee everything, even if what's currently in place is working fine.

Read a good thread on Twitter from a Liverpool fan earlier about him saying how he never got on with Michael Edwards and that whole situation about "you sign one, I sign one" (which is a totally ridiculous way to operate), how Klopp slotted straight into what Edwards was doing and you only have to see the results. The fact Klopp himself will do this proves that part of the quality of being a top manager is the ability to delegate, the ability to trust some of the cogs in the machine. Rodgers seems to think he can do it all and he doesn't even need to.

If he's learnt his lesson I'd be less concerned about this kind of thing, but history seems to be repeating itself and I don't see it twigging in his head in the summer. Maybe it will, but my head errs on the side of him not, and continuing some of this silliness.

Leicester are a redeemable situation. I firmly believe we can get back into Europe and get good again. I just don't think it'll be him that does it. I'd want a manager who knows what good he has around him.

Bit of a late reply but Rodgers insisted on Benteke after Edwards signed Firmino if I recall correctly. There's no doubt other examples from the summer before that but that's the one that always sticks out for me. As you say a ridiculous way to operate. Then he was using Firmino as a right winger. It wasn't until Klopp arrived that we started to see what Firmino was about.

[Dan+]

7 hours ago, LFCMike said:

Bit of a late reply but Rodgers insisted on Benteke after Edwards signed Firmino if I recall correctly. There's no doubt other examples from the summer before that but that's the one that always sticks out for me. As you say a ridiculous way to operate. Then he was using Firmino as a right winger. It wasn't until Klopp arrived that we started to see what Firmino was about.

He makes some really baffling recruitment decisions and it was a weakness that concerned me about him before we appointed him. He's good when he's given the tools but he's not very good at acquiring new ones. Seems to constantly buy players who are totally at odds with how he plays - he plays a high line and buys the slowest defender in the league.