Guest Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 I know there is an international thread but it doesnt get that much attention. I think technically England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland arent really countries. United kingdom is the country and they are constituencies. So should we really be allowed to have national teams? It's not a question of what you want it's more a questions of when you look at the rules should we really allowed to have 4 representations from one country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma 1,763 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 15 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said: I know there is an international thread but it doesnt get that much attention. I think technically England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland arent really countries. United kingdom is the country and they are constituencies. So should we really be allowed to have national teams? It's not a question of what you want it's more a questions of when you look at the rules should we really allowed to have 4 representations from one country? I wasn't even aware that they weren't all individual countries . I always wondered why the UK competes in the Olympics but all of the "countries" compete individually in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadLinesman 5,938 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 16 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said: I think technically England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland arent really countries. They are 4 separate countries that make up the sovereign state of the United Kingdom. They will always be separate as such. They are countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 These kinds of mergers are ok in sports where participation level isn't that high or sum of parts will be greater than individuals like a West Indies cricket team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ 5,358 Posted March 28, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted March 28, 2022 This has been talked about for years and even other countries have said why can Great Britain be allowed to field 4 national teams, they should just have one team called Great Britain. Can't see it ever happening as you would have more English players chosen for the side than Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland players because the English football League is superior with English based teams than the latter. You could go the Rugby Union/League way and choose a British Lions side but that would be just for international friendly matches and tours only something like the Baa Baa's (Barbarians) but the Rugby Union/League have 15 & 13 players plus subs in a side wherein football (soccer) you only have 11 players and subs. England have been the only Home Nation to have any major success internationally, winning the 1966 World Cup. Scotland have qualified for the final tournaments of eight World Cups and three European Championships, but have never progressed beyond the group stage of any international tournament. Wales reached the semi-finals of the European Championships in 2016, but have not qualified for a World Cup finals tournament since 1958 and neither have Northern Ireland since 1986. This is sometimes raised as an argument in favour of a single United Kingdom national team: based on statistical analysis. In June 2006, it was estimated that a United Kingdom national team would have had a one-third greater chance of winning the 2006 World Cup than England did at the tournament's outset. Opponents of the plan argue that the existing footballing identities of the fans of the Home Nations should not be sacrificed simply to stand a better chance of success. There has been limited support for the creation of a permanent British national team. Although often hypothetical in nature, such a proposal has been put forward by prominent government ministers, including Jack Straw and Tony Banks. In July 2014, after England performed poorly in the 2014 World Cup, Conservative MP Laurence Robertson submitted an early day motion, calling for a United Kingdom Football Team. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_national_football_team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 hours ago, DeadLinesman said: They are 4 separate countries that make up the sovereign state of the United Kingdom. They will always be separate as such. They are countries. If they are countries so are the states of the USA and Australia. They are ‘seperate’ but they make the ‘united’ kingdom, but they are really seperate guys. Trust me. Why was there a bloody Scottish independence referendum if they are already ‘seperate’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub 2,508 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Spike said: If they are countries so are the states of the USA and Australia. They are ‘seperate’ but they make the ‘united’ kingdom, but they are really seperate guys. Trust me. Why was there a bloody Scottish independence referendum if they are already ‘seperate’ Good point being able to make independent decisions in foreign relations is what majorly qualifies as being a country otherwise some of the autonomous region of Russia are more independent than states in US or Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Aladdin said: Good point being able to make independent decisions in foreign relations is what majorly qualifies as being a country otherwise some of the autonomous region of Russia are more independent than states in US or Australia. Brits just get confused because they call Wales, England, N.Ireland, and England ‘countries’, which is fine because that is what they call them. But they get all in a huff and puff when you say they aren’t really countries because they aren’t sovereign states, which they aren’t. They like to confuse matters by referring to referring to England and Italy both as countries despite the fact they are fundamentally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Spike said: If they are countries so are the states of the USA and Australia. They are ‘seperate’ but they make the ‘united’ kingdom, but they are really seperate guys. Trust me. Why was there a bloody Scottish independence referendum if they are already ‘seperate’ Can't tell if this is satire or not, so fair play because the more I read it the more I get Brent/Partridge vibes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,177 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I don't think we should mix the 4 teams because a lot of people have a lot more nationalistic identity with the countries they were born in rather than with the UK as a whole. I can't see Gareth Bale giving as much of a shit about playing with the England XI + Andy Robertson as he does with Wales. Same with Robertson. Plus we saw how bad a divided England squad was when players were in cliques based on their clubs during England's "golden era". Now imagine a UK side with cliques based off national identity - I think it's potentially more divisive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rucksackfranzose 4,354 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I don't think we should mix the 4 teams because a lot of people have a lot more nationalistic identity with the countries they were born in rather than with the UK as a whole. I can't see Gareth Bale giving as much of a shit about playing with the England XI + Andy Robertson as he does with Wales. Same with Robertson. Plus we saw how bad a divided England squad was when players were in cliques based on their clubs during England's "golden era". Now imagine a UK side with cliques based off national identity - I think it's potentially more divisive. In other words: Other sovereign states should accept the UK is the only sovereign state with 4 national teams, because it's suits the emotional state of UK citizens the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,177 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, Rucksackfranzose said: In other words: Other sovereign states should accept the UK is the only sovereign state with 4 national teams, because it's suits the emotional state of UK citizens the best? We invented football so we get special rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 @Dr. Gonzo I think you may have misunderstood the question. It wasnt whether we wanted to it is whether we should be allowed to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 7 hours ago, DeadLinesman said: They are 4 separate countries that make up the sovereign state of the United Kingdom. They will always be separate as such. They are countries. The uk is classed as a country. Normally teams under one government are classed as countries by fifa. Britian is under one government. Its complicated to say what the four contries are as I dont think they have ever been given a clear definition. They are classed as regions by some. When the Soviet union was around they played together as one country. In other sports it wouldn't be an issue as the rules are more relaxed. However in football the rules are fairly strict. In some ways you could argue jersey, Guernsey and the isle of man have more right to their own national teams as they are not part of the united kingdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey 1,187 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 On 27/03/2022 at 20:09, Gunnersauraus said: I know there is an international thread but it doesnt get that much attention. I think technically England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland arent really countries. United kingdom is the country and they are constituencies. So should we really be allowed to have national teams? It's not a question of what you want it's more a questions of when you look at the rules should we really allowed to have 4 representations from one country? They should be separate as they're all different countries. Plus, other than England they are all massively shit at football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 13 minutes ago, Whiskey said: They should be separate as they're all different countries. Plus, other than England they are all massively shit at football. They're not sovereign countries though. UK is the sovereign country. I'm not complaining I dont want a uk team but not sure if its really fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 @Whiskey I think you are right actually if you use this definition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,177 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Gunnersauraus said: @Dr. Gonzo I think you may have misunderstood the question. It wasnt whether we wanted to it is whether we should be allowed to ? Oh, then my answer is no we shouldn't be allowed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 30 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said: @Whiskey I think you are right actually if you use this definition https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country @Dr. Gonzo according to this I think is is fair as faroe islands and some other countries do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,177 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 Taiwan gets its own national team and technically they're "not a country"... even though they effectively are a country. I don't see what the big deal is behind the 4 separate UK international sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: Taiwan gets its own national team and technically they're "not a country"... even though they effectively are a country. I don't see what the big deal is behind the 4 separate UK international sides. Like I said I like it that way. And in other sports it wouldn't be an issue as the rules arent so strict. My question was whether it is breaking the rules or not. Even if it was I think fifa let it go as it's always been that way. But that was why the other three countries didnt want an Olympic gb team I think. They were worried we would be forced to go as GB. Like I said of you read the article above it is allowed with other similar states so I think it is fair. I do think Guernsey,Jersey and isle of man should be allowed their own team though. They arent even part if the UK they are a crown dependency. I find these things quite interesting actually. Out of interest do they cheer England in the isle of man @RandoEFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted March 28, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted March 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Gunnersauraus said: Out of interest do they cheer England in the isle of man @RandoEFC? Generally, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 I want to see an English passport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber CaaC (John)+ 5,358 Posted March 29, 2022 Subscriber Share Posted March 29, 2022 4 hours ago, Whiskey said: They should be separate as they're all different countries. Plus, other than England they are all massively shit at football. Being half English & Scottish that is spot on, the Scottish league is nowhere near the English league which can produce more homegrown players, it's fact that the English Leagues attract far more Scottish, Welsh & Irish players thus countries like Scotland are bled dry for home bred and born players. Scotland once upon a time did have a good Scottish squad of players like Dalgleish, Jordon, McQueen, Gemmill, McKay, Bremner, Law, Johnston, McCoist, Souness, Hansen etc, that did qualify for World Cups and European competitions on a regular basis, not anymore I am afraid to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie 3,253 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 4 hours ago, Whiskey said: They should be separate as they're all different countries. Plus, they are all massively shit at football. Fixed. I think it's worth keeping them separate to preserve their individual football cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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