Donald Trump

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Well it won't even start until the House has said the Senate can guarantee a "fair trial" & they release the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate. Given that just days ago, the Senate leader (a Republican) said he would be conducting the trial under Trump's lawyers' guidance (which is essentially like saying the prosecutor and over half the members of the jury will be working with the defense)… it may take some time for it to even reach the Senate.

It looks like the Democrats are going to dangle impeachment over Trump's head for a while, as Senate Republicans were essentially saying "don't worry, we will hold a sham trial and acquit you" - meanwhile they're going to be investigating other impeachable offenses. So before it reaches the senate, I think their plan is to keep impeachment in the news and keep adding additional articles (which are basically like criminal charges in a sense) for the eventual Senate trial to be litigated.

Theoretically, the House could send these Articles over in the thick of many of these Senators reelection campaigns, while keeping impeachment as the hot political topic. 

That's an appealing narrative but I think that will backfire pretty quick due to the GOP exploiting it and changing the narrative.

The GOP actually did a good job of making yesterday's impeachment seem a very partisan affair, and have exploited some democrats voting against impeachment to say the only bipartisan thing that happened was the vote against. They're now saying Pelosi won't send it over because they know theyve got a weak case.

It's all clearly bullshit but muddy enough that idiots will be fooled, and their own side will become even more convinced that the whole thing is a partisan charade.

[Dr. Gonzo]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

That's an appealing narrative but I think that will backfire pretty quick due to the GOP exploiting it and changing the narrative.

The GOP actually did a good job of making yesterday's impeachment seem a very partisan affair, and have exploited some democrats voting against impeachment to say the only bipartisan thing that happened was the vote against. They're now saying Pelosi won't send it over because they know theyve got a weak case.

It's all clearly bullshit but muddy enough that idiots will be fooled, and their own side will become even more convinced that the whole thing is a partisan charade.

The best argument against it being partisan is: "why don't you want to call witnesses or have Trump actually mount a defense?"

Sadly that won't reach the knuckledragging masses watching Fox News & reading Breitbart.

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The best argument against it being partisan is: "why don't you want to call witnesses or have Trump actually mount a defense?"

Sadly that won't reach the knuckledragging masses watching Fox News & reading Breitbart.

It's an interesting position. Dems hoping they can make trump look a coward will lead to him pressuring Mitch to open up the hearing to witnesses. Trump's Twitter will be informative.

[Teso dos Bichos]

American politics is at its peak 

To get removed from office, a crime doesnt have to be committed. If it can be proven that the president has a pattern of self interest decisions, Which they have, that's grounds for removal BUT at the same time the IG Horowitz report continues to prove Trump was right about the swamp and DC corruption within the FBI and DOJ.

It's a major cluster fuck and I have never seen this country so split apart. Major food stamp cuts /regulations will be imposed, the stock market WILL crash, and a major Christian publication has flipped its support for the conservative president . The late Billy Graham founded the newspaper and his son constantly kissed Trump's ass(hasnt become official but the trump administration since day one has been working to allow churches/religions to publicly endorse a president and give political contributions. 

@Dr. Gonzo idk why but listening to Rush Limbaugh or Hannity show its proper entertainment. 

 

[Beelzebub]

US has now established it's Space force officially approved by Trump 

Let the space wars begin !

[Dr. Gonzo]

On 20/12/2019 at 01:32, Teso dos Bichos said:

 

@Dr. Gonzo idk why but listening to Rush Limbaugh or Hannity show its proper entertainment. 

 

I don't even know who Rush Limbaugh is... but Hannity is genuinely one of the worst people in America, imo, and he's got his soapbox to spew his bullshit onto America each night and I find it to be absolutely disgusting. Him and that fucking twat Tucker Carlson (who btw, is from San Diego and said that Mexicans making fish tacos is Mexicans appropriating his culture lol) are just socially acceptable white nationalists. They get more and more radical as time goes on, as well, which is really concerning because Fox News is the most watched news channel in the US. So you've got more and more radical white nationalist messaging getting normalised by the most watched news network in the country.

Also, I've always found it a bit funny that the most watched news network, so the most mainstream news media really, always complains about the reporting of the mainstream media. Is that their own way of trying to tell everyone that they're full of shit?

Honestly, I think the US is fucked politically. The split between left and right in the US is even more far apart than it is in the UK - I don't see how the nation can come together and heal over this political divide when the country is so far apart ideologically. Seems like no real legislation can pass unless one party holds both the house & senate + the presidency - so no real problems will actually be addressed by the federal government. And the way the country is split, I just can't see any side controlling house + senate + presidency... so it doesn't really bode well.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Mitch McConnell last night says he doesn't have the votes to dismiss the impeachment trial outright, nor does he have the votes to deny witnesses at any trial. Who knows if this is just standard GOP saying shite to get the democrats to do what they want, before ultimately going against their word and doing the standard united GOP thing though.

But it looks like the impeachment trial will begin on Tuesday.

[Beelzebub]

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Azeem said:

Looks like something trump would put on his Twitter page.

Here is reality... See if you can spot the Rasmussen poll from the right hand column.

 

[Harry]

This must be one of the most talked about news articles of the year

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/youre-a-bunch-of-dopes-and-babies-inside-trumps-stunning-tirade-against-generals/2020/01/16/d6dbb8a6-387e-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html

So much of it already known but is still just so well written and paints such a vivid picture of some of the most critical moments in the early stages of the trump presidency.

One of the most scary things about trump is his success sends a message to individuals or there "don't consider information in detail, ignore facts, flip positions on the switch of a dime, never accept responsibility, and double down on your own ignorance".

 

 

[Harry]

So John Bolton.

Wouldn't testify but happy to write a book about it? Utter melt

[Dr. Gonzo]

Watching bits and pieces of the trial has made me think the US has gone full banana republic. One party just doesn’t care about rule of law as long as they have power and will shamelessly make up excuses as to why it was “necessary” to break the law for to help a presidential campaign

[Harry]

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Watching bits and pieces of the trial has made me think the US has gone full banana republic. One party just doesn’t care about rule of law as long as they have power and will shamelessly make up excuses as to why it was “necessary” to break the law for to help a presidential campaign

I just think they went off the deep end at some point where they decided to continue to try to rule in minority doing things like voter suppression and Gerrymandering rather than look at moving closer to the centre to broaden their appeal to continue to win government. They could achieve this more easily by appealing to the lowest common denominator on so many issues and they now have fucked up the thought processes of many of those to the point they stand no reasonable chance of being able to educate a majority of their voters.

So many of the GOP hate trump but they couldn't prosecute the argument for removing him despite the fact they would love to replace him with another more conventional politician.

[Harry]

The really frustrating aspect is the spin off effect it has in other democracies. We have Australian politicians that aspire to be as obstructionist as Mitch McConnell

[Dr. Gonzo]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

I just think they went off the deep end at some point where they decided to continue to try to rule in minority doing things like voter suppression and Gerrymandering rather than look at moving closer to the centre to broaden their appeal to continue to win government. They could achieve this more easily by appealing to the lowest common denominator on so many issues and they now have fucked up the thought processes of many of those to the point they stand no reasonable chance of being able to educate a majority of their voters.

So many of the GOP hate trump but they couldn't prosecute the argument for removing him despite the fact they would love to replace him with another more conventional politician.

A big part of it is the media keeps pushing their base more and more to the right. So the politicians can't make a broader appeal to moderates without losing a substantial group of their voter base - they're not going to win over people who are left of centre either. They'd just have centrists voting for them, which'd mean they'd lose in elections.

I don't believe in hell, but if it's real I'm at least glad that Rupert Murdoch will be down there.

I think Michael Cohen being deputy chairman of finances for the RNC also may have meant illegal campaign funds have made their way to GOP politicians. So as much as they'd like to get rid of Trump and get someone a bit more normal in to push their shitty policies, they also may be afraid to investigate too far into Trump's misdeeds (and what he's ordered his lackey's to do) as there's a good chance the whole party's been tainted.

There's also the question of the integrity of the jury for this trial. We've had at least 2 senators come out before they took their oath saying they would not be impartial (their oath says they'd be impartial when considering the facts). Those are McConnell and Graham. So that's got their impartiality in question. Next is the issue of McConnell's wife being a part of Trump's administration, which is most certainly a conflict of interest. I think ethical politicians who respect the rule of law would recuse themselves. But this party and this administration have complete contempt for rule of law. Which is a bit funny, because the Orange moron spent so much time shouting "LAW & ORDER" during his campaign. Must have been a fan of the show, because he's certainly not a fan of the concepts.

12 minutes ago, Harry said:

The really frustrating aspect is the spin off effect it has in other democracies. We have Australian politicians that aspire to be as obstructionist as Mitch McConnell

Well it seems to work really well, particularly in the Anglosphere. Look at the Trump effect on British politics, we've got Dominic Cummings and Trump's own Steve Bannon as advisors to our PM. I don't know about democracies outside the Anglosphere - it's clear French voters were less dissuaded by the "email dump" of Macron emails, where there were real emails of Macron and his campaign mixed in with some fake ones that were pushed by their right wing media. I've seen clips of news from India that looks like just the Indian version of Fox News... so I know they've got a similar issue.

But in the US it's a big problem because of 1.) Gerrymandering being legal somehow; 2.) the Electoral College (which isn't the worst idea theoretically, but in practice is a pretty undemocratic), 3.) low voter turnout. That's how you get situations where there are more voters that are against the policies supported by the President/Congressional representatives... but because of the way the Electoral College is set up, winning many sparsely populated states can carry you to victory despite losing states where most of the country lives & districts that carve up states into weird shapes so as to protect the ruling party at the time those shapes were drawn.

I don't see how to fix the problem though. Those first 2 points would require the US to make constitutional amendments. The third one would require less apathy from people who are of voting age and eligible to vote - but the media goes out of its way to promote apathy imo and paint politics as boring and it doesn't ultimately matter who's in charge.

But if one party refuses to act on what looks like blatant criminality and a sloppy cover-up because it keeps them in power, that President is empowered to further violate the law. And they'd be justified in feeling untouchable. The democratic institutions of America are going through their biggest test since the American Civil War - and I don't think these institutions are looking all that resilient to the test they face.

[CaaC (John)+]

Trump's wall: High winds blow over a section of US-Mexico border fence

A new section of President Donald Trump's signature wall along the US-Mexico border has been blown over in high winds, US officials say.

Steel panels from the fence in the town of Calexico, California were knocked down on Wednesday morning.

The concrete used to anchor the 30ft-tall (9m) panels in place had not yet dried.

Gusts of around 30 mph (48 km/h) were reported at the time, the US National Weather Service said.

The fence is part of the Trump administration's ongoing construction project to stop illegal migration across the 1,954 mile-long (3,145 km) US-Mexico border.

FULL REPORT

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

4 hours ago, CaaC (John) said:

Trump's wall: High winds blow over a section of US-Mexico border fence

A new section of President Donald Trump's signature wall along the US-Mexico border has been blown over in high winds, US officials say.

Steel panels from the fence in the town of Calexico, California were knocked down on Wednesday morning.

The concrete used to anchor the 30ft-tall (9m) panels in place had not yet dried.

Gusts of around 30 mph (48 km/h) were reported at the time, the US National Weather Service said.

The fence is part of the Trump administration's ongoing construction project to stop illegal migration across the 1,954 mile-long (3,145 km) US-Mexico border.

FULL REPORT

 

that's not too far from me

Anyways, probably not going to keep many Mexicans out if you can't keep the fucking winds out.

[CaaC (John)+]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

that's not too far from me

Anyways, probably not going to keep many Mexicans out if you can't keep the fucking winds out.

Imagine farting in a tunnel.   

US-Mexico border: 'Longest ever' smuggling tunnel discovered

VIDEO

US officials say they have discovered the longest smuggling tunnel ever found on the border with Mexico.

Stretching for 4,309ft (1,313m), the tunnel had a lift, rail track, drainage and air ventilation systems, and high voltage electrical cables.

The passageway connected an industrial site in the Mexican city of Tijuana to the San Diego area in California.

There were no arrests made or drugs found. Authorities did not say who they suspected of being behind the tunnel.

But Mexico's Sinaloa cartel, described by the US government as one of the largest drug-trafficking organisations in the world, operates in the area. Its founder and long-time leader, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, is serving life in prison in the US.

The tunnel was discovered in August. Mexican officials identified its entrance and US investigators mapped it, before releasing the findings on Wednesday.

FULL REPORT

[Dr. Gonzo]

@CaaC (John) - at least that tunnel had ventilation systems. That's got to ease some of the fart smell a bit 

And it having railway tracks is a bit mind-blowing.

Honestly, it stuns me how sophisticated some of these cartels get with their attempts for drug/human trafficking. Some of their "makeshift" narco-submarines they make to transport drugs and people illegally are actually fairly impressive considering you wouldn't expect a gang of drug runners to be able to engineer something like a submarine that won't get all of it's occupants killed. But apparently narco-subs aren't anything new and have been around since the Pablo Escobar days, so maybe cartels have just perfected their technology over the decades. They've certainly got the resources to pay people who are capable of engineering things to work for them.

But both that tunnel you've shown and the submarines... they really underscore why this border wall idea is profoundly stupid. First off, as I've said a number of times in this thread... there's already a border wall over much of the US's southern border. There's a really great mall right by the border at Otay Mesa. Before Trump ever took office I went there for the first time ever. Once I got into the car park, pretty much the first thing I saw was... the fucking border wall. I literally parked right next to the border wall and I remember thinking "so he wants to build something that's already there, alright."

The next thing is you're telling people with a huge amount of resources (because they're taking advantage of the black market created by America's war on drugs and making shitloads of money off it) that they can't get drugs through because there's a wall. So what do they do? They go under the wall. They go over the wall. It also turns out, it's not too hard to smuggle drugs into the United States through the airport if you know how the airport xray machines work (organic material shows up as orange on the xray detectors, drugs are organic).

And if the worry isn't the drug war and the gang crime that goes hand in hand with having a black market for criminals to exploit... and the worry is illegal immigration... the statistics show that there are far less illegal immigrants coming in through the Southern Border than there are people coming into the United States on visas and staying illegally after those visas expire.

I live in a city with many Mexican-Americans. I love going to Mexico, it's a fantastic place full of fantastic people. It genuinely makes me sad seeing how the drug war has empowered criminals in Mexico to the point where their country experiences waves of shocking violence because of criminals empowered by a drug policy that has failed America (and American addicts). And because of what it's done to the rampant criminality of Mexico, as it's the last stop before the US on the drug routes into the United states, it's been absolutely devastating to America's neighbor to the south.

That's why to my eyes, Trump's wall is just an expensive monument to racism. It doesn't address any of the actual issues like the drug trade & the resulting crime... and it doesn't address illegal immigration in any effective way. It's just a barrier that sends the message "we don't want you" to people of Mexican dissent. And my view is held by a lot of people that also live on the US's southern border.

And it's disgusting tbh.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Looks like there will be no witnesses, so regardless of how it turns up - there’s no way anyone can say it’s a fair trial

[Harry]

On 01/02/2020 at 07:06, Dr. Gonzo said:

Looks like there will be no witnesses, so regardless of how it turns up - there’s no way anyone can say it’s a fair trial

Outrageous.

The ultimate low point in post war American political history.

[CaaC (John)+]

They should really call him Donald 'Top Cat' Trump, that twat has more than 9 lives like a cat. 

[RandoEFC+]

I don't see what the confusion is here. Here's clearly so innocent that he doesn't need witnesses or evidence to prove it.

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I don't see what the confusion is here. Here's clearly so innocent that he doesn't need witnesses or evidence to prove it.

There's been a number of excuses given on this. The more interesting have been from the more moderate members.

Rubio suggesting just because the president's actions meet the bar of impeachment doesn't mean removing the president from office is the right call is probably the highlight.

Lamar Alexander suggesting he needed no witnesses to be sure trump is guilty of what he's accused, but that does not meet the bar of a high crime worthy of impeachment.

But most were pulling the partisan witch hunt card. Its only a fucking partisan event because nobody in the GOP has the cottage or the will to stand up for their own beliefs and be willing to answer to their voters about why the conduct is worthy of impeachment.

[CaaC (John)+]

Not one for arguing or having long debates about politics here or aboard but will this episode of impeachment be a new thing now in America, someone is elected as President of the United States and then the opposition parties start digging up shite for an impeachment.

Just wondering at the next election, say Trump fails in his bid for a second term and a Democrat wins and becomes President, what will we see, the Republican Party starts to dig up shit for an impeachment? a never-ending story in American politics.

PS I still don't like the toupee walking idiot in Donald Duck.