UK Politics & Brexit Discussion

[RandoEFC+]

The new breed of Tory MPs are actually terrifying in their incompetence and zealotry. Dehenna Davidson, Andrea Jenkyns may or may not be new - today she picked a fight with James O'Brien on Twitter with what looked like a parody patriotic tweet include the hashtags #ProBrexit and #ProTrump, the only problem being that she spelt British wrong but she loves the country and all those Labour MPs are Marxists who want us to get fingered over a hay bail by the nasty EU, or something. There's a moron who's an MP in Stoke now with a silly name who tweets ill-informed shite on Twitter on a regular basis. Nadine Dorries too. Then you've got the other breed of frightening old Tories like Desmond Swayne who is essentially an anti-masker, always perched on the back benches pressuring the more media-savvy Number 10 and cabinet to make sure they don't pander too much to the filthy majority. Not even mentioned Duncan-Smith and Rees-Mogg. 

I completely agree that Boris Johnson doesn't really believe in anything and instead has just spent his life hitching his wagon to whichever cause he thinks will benefit him the most. Nothing epitomises this more than the fact that he wrote a pro-Remain and pro-Leave article during the referendum campaign and decided the day before which one to publish based on personal political gain. An absolute empty vessel of ambition.

There's some lemons in the Labour Party who are MPs as well. Then you've got the Lib Dems who had Layla Moran who's absolutely bonkers as one of the last two contenders for leader a few weeks ago. Sadly, the majority of people who have their heart set on politics from an early age seem to have real issues relating to anything that actually happens in real peoples' lives. Those predominantly Tory MPs though who think we're still living in the 1950s and think they're geniuses because their rich parents bought them an elite education, then left their fortunes or companies to them to inherit so that they never had to get a job themselves, say they worked "in the city" as an investor for a decade with money they've never had to work for, before being parachuted into a safe Blue seat in the South-West so they could take their rightful place presiding over the little people are definitely the hardest to swallow.

Keir Starmer made another impressive speech today. He talked about patriotism in a way that really resonated with me. Not "get your union jacks out lads, everyone else is worse than us because we're British and we won the war mate" patriotism. He said "I want this to be the best country to grow up in and the best country to grow old in". That's real patriotism. What hardline Brexiteers call patriotism is a slightly polished version of xenophobia which I cannot relate to at all. If Starmer keeps sticking to messaging like that which will appeal to the majority of Labour's lost voters, while sticking to the values of making life better for normal people, there's no reason why he shouldn't be successful. Reaching out across the media is massive. He already goes on LBC with Nick Ferrari once a month and writes for the Telegraph and he's consistently had plaudits from Dan Hodges from the Mail on Sunday who is a rare case of a right-leaning journalist who also has it in him to criticise a Tory government and praise a Labour opposition. All of this sees him reaching a wider audience than Corbyn ever could.

[LFCMike]

Wow

 

[Stan]

'freedom-loving country'  

[Danny]

What a cunt honestly, he and the Tory party in general will say and do what they can to not have to admit they’ve got things wrong and drastically wrong at that

[Inverted]

Lol, the British are the most servile and impressionable of the major nations in Europe. We have sheepishly sat back for years and took every kind of diplomatic disaster, drop in living standards and services, and political scandal thrown at us.

If you dropped the French into our situation they would have half of Whitehall ablaze in days, and people hanging from lampposts within weeks. 

If you dropped the Germans in they would probably sit down for a month and come out with out a range of economic, political and diplomatic solutions which your typical Etonian would spend a lifetime trying to work out.

The idea that the British are especially free spirited or free thinking in any sense is objective nonsense. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Inverted

[Bluewolf]

It's shameful that Johnson continues to avoid answering any questions or genuine criticism by throwing back at people that they are always trying to undermine the great work the NHS are doing... This must be the 5th or 6th time he has said the same thing.. The bloke needs to start wearing a plant around his neck to give back some of that oxygen he keeps wasting... 

[Stan]

How can you front yourself as a 'freedom-loving' country when you've just restricted free movement across 26 other nations in the continent you're in, and compare that to countries (Germany and Italy) who do allow freedom of movement because they're in the EU?

[LFCMike]

4 hours ago, Bluewolf said:

It's shameful that Johnson continues to avoid answering any questions or genuine criticism by throwing back at people that they are always trying to undermine the great work the NHS are doing... This must be the 5th or 6th time he has said the same thing.. The bloke needs to start wearing a plant around his neck to give back some of that oxygen he keeps wasting... 

Really annoying that he keeps saying NHS test and trace

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by LFCMike

[Danny]

Test and trace has nothing to do with the spread? How can you be so incompetent? What is the point in test and trace if not to help prevent the fucking spread

[RandoEFC+]

A bunch of vaguely intelligent (too generous? ) randomers on the internet, most with no relevant qualifications, can make about 10 valid points in the space of a day in this thread, blindly obvious criticisms of this government, this Prime Minister, and their response to this pandemic.

They're still leading in the polls you know. That's England (yes England, not Britain).

[Honey Honey]

12 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

A bunch of vaguely intelligent (too generous? ) randomers on the internet, most with no relevant qualifications, can make about 10 valid points in the space of a day in this thread, blindly obvious criticisms of this government, this Prime Minister, and their response to this pandemic.

They're still leading in the polls you know. That's England (yes England, not Britain).

There's about 10 absolute shite points on this page that are detrimental to the Starmer cause as well though, maybe because this seems to be seen as an anti-Tory safe space to shoot shite from the hip and not the public domain it actually is.

The latest yougov Westminster poll has Labour and the Conservatives tied on 40% when don't knows are excluded. That is a whopping fall for Boris of 13% in 4 months and loss of a 20% lead. There's no such data cut as England. Data is cut instead by region as this makes more sense for homogeneity given the stark differences in regions within England. Scotland is considered a region. Conservative change is less there on the grounds there was less to lose in the first place I guess. Still, Labour's Westminster growth is non existent. The changing winds are coming from England and Wales.

[RandoEFC+]

8 hours ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

There's about 10 absolute shite points on this page that are detrimental to the Starmer cause as well though, maybe because this seems to be seen as an anti-Tory safe space to shoot shite from the hip and not the public domain it actually is.

The latest yougov Westminster poll has Labour and the Conservatives tied on 40% when don't knows are excluded. That is a whopping fall for Boris of 13% in 4 months and loss of a 20% lead. There's no such data cut as England. Data is cut instead by region as this makes more sense for homogeneity given the stark differences in regions within England. Scotland is considered a region. Conservative change is less there on the grounds there was less to lose in the first place I guess. Still, Labour's Westminster growth is non existent. The changing winds are coming from England and Wales.

I disagree. Where are the shite points? It's not like this is a Momentum twitter feed. I read about 6-7 posts in a row before posting that and all of them are rooted in truth from the PM deliberately referring to it as NHS Test and Trace when it's actually run by Serco, a private firm with links to Dominic Cummings and, if I'm not misremembering, one of the half a dozen or so companies that have been awarded multi-million pound government contracts without a competitive process taking place, to the fact that Survation and Ipsos Mori also released polls this week which have the Tories 2-3 points ahead despite the one YouGov poll that has them tied with Starmer edging Johnson for preferred prime-minister.

You don't need to analyse the regional data to know that England is by far the most Conservative and pro-Brexit out of the four countries in the union. It might be less Conservative than it was when it voted in December but it's still true.

I know you like to come and offer a "more sensible" point of view in this thread but you've made your own set of claims in this post which look to me to be more based on posters' previous contributions to the thread and their biases than what they've actual posted. I'm more than happy to see what you mean if you can point out which ones are shite points.

 

[Inverted]

It's also bold to assume that anyone here is particularly attached to Starmer. I think Starmer has handled the crisis badly as well. 

The party is continually shitting itself over what the focus groups will think and thus it helped the Tories publically browbeat the teachers into submission, not to mention all this meaningless "patriotic" blue labour messaging it is pivoting to. And for all their spineless toing-and-froing, they still cant get a lead in the polls over the most blatantly corrupt and incompetent government in modern British history. 

There you go. Balance. 

 

I personally just prefer to focus most of my scrutiny on the people that control all the levers of power. I know that's an odd concept in this country, but I think it's valid nonetheless. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Inverted

[RandoEFC+]

19 minutes ago, Inverted said:

It's also bold to assume that anyone here is particularly attached to Starmer. I think Starmer has handled the crisis badly as well. 

The party is continually shitting itself over what the focus groups will think and thus it helped the Tories publically browbeat the teachers into submission, not to mention all this meaningless "patriotic" blue labour messaging it is pivoting to. And for all their spineless toing-and-froing, they still cant get a lead in the polls over the most blatantly corrupt and incompetent government in modern British history. 

There you go. Balance. 

 

I personally just prefer to focus most of my scrutiny on the people that control all the levers of power. I know that's an odd concept in this country, but I think it's valid nonetheless. 

I don't mind this at all. I think he nailed it with his line about patriotism meaning that he wants his country to be the best place to grow up in and the best place to grow old in. Reclaiming the concept of patriotism from the right-wing and the nationalists is very important. The idea of Britishness or Englishness doesn't have to be incompatible with globalism. Labour has been damaged by successful attack lines from the Tories and the right wing press that Corbyn allowed to happen because he continued to appeal to his core base instead of trying to appeal to enough people to win an election - the anti-semitism concerns, the anti-British rhetoric, all of that needs challenging. Corbyn may have made speeches that made you, me and many others feel as if there was finally a man leading one of the major parties who really speaks to our ideologies but after a decade of Tory Britain I'm more than willing to lose some of that in exchange for a Labour leader who is actually in power and can do some of the things that I believe would make the country a better place.

I have to challenge you on the teachers point. Starmer's line was always that he wanted schools to reopen, but that it had to be safe to do so. This was the view of the majority of teachers as well. Don't let the media convince you that the stance of the loudest protesters at the top of the teaching unions represents the voice of the majority of the profession. None of us liked working from home, it was a nightmare. It has been a nightmare getting schools open again for school leaders who have had to make their own contingency plans in the face of inadequate and inconsistent guidance from the Department of Education, but every teacher I know or follow on Twitter is absolutely made up to be back teaching face to face. The problem is that the failed test and trace system has left (apparently) up to a million kids now being home-schooled again because a teacher or a member of their year group is waiting for a Covid test, or a result from one to be processed. This has only become an apparent issue in the last few weeks since schools reopened. Schools could not have stayed closed for any longer and really, really can't close again. The mental health toll on our younger generation as well as that on the teachers themselves would be disastrous. None of this was about being beaten into submission. In fact, when they tried to force all primary schools back before the summer holidays when it was clearly too soon, the government were forced to back down. At this point, the parliamentary Labour Party were fighting the corner of teachers where the majority at the time felt it was too soon and the suggestions made to make it happen were impractical.

Starmer hasn't been left an easy job. You're being unfair for me expecting him to lead in the polls six months into his leadership when the party were anything from 13-17 points behind at the point he took over. He's had a lot of help from the Tories shooting themselves in the foot and these are extreme times but a swing of that many points in half a year isn't to be sneered at. Most of the journalists that represent those "swing voters" have had more good things to say about him than bad.

Overall though, we're more or less on the same page. 

[Danny]

Whilst I’d probably end up voting Labour, Starmer completely let down the BLM movement by pandering to the public who were against it by waffling on about organisational issues. For a man who portrays himself as intelligent his refusal to understand the complex nature of defunding the police was just political point scoring.

[RandoEFC+]

1 minute ago, Danny said:

Whilst I’d probably end up voting Labour, Starmer completely let down the BLM movement by pandering to the public who were against it by waffling on about organisational issues. For a man who portrays himself as intelligent his refusal to understand the complex nature of defunding the police was just political point scoring.

The people who let down the Black Lives Matter movement are the actual organisation Black Lives Matter. We all agree with the movement but the organisation themselves are actual extremists. The policing system in America is in need of actual reform. Can you say the same about the UK? I wouldn't personally.

The Labour Party needs to be a governing party. A governing party can't just be activists and the majority of the electorate don't want activists governing them. The thing with Starmer is he can't win either way when it comes to the loud minority on social media. When he took a knee and posted it on social media in support of BLM he was accused of pandering to Corbyn's woke brigade. When he wasn't there at the front of the march on Whitehall he was accused of being "Blue Labour" and pandering to those causing the problem. Luckily for him, the majority of voters aren't involved in the culture war of Twitter and the internet. As far as most voters are concerned, and I'm not saying I'm in their camp, both Starmer and Johnson reflected their views on Black Lives Matter in that the movement has merit and the protests were legitimate but it didn't require a heated conversation about tearing down statues, defunding the police and rewriting school curriculums in the middle of a worldwide pandemic.

[Inverted]

Labour having, rightly or wrongly, decided it was tired of a leader who had an opinion on everything, has decided to go for a leader who has no opinions at all. 

He also fails to realise that pandering to the right only makes sense if the other guys  are pandering to the left. If the pandering only ever goes one way then we end up an insular, mollycoddled, smooth-brained electorate that votes us into the types of disasters like we've experienced for the last decade. 

[Danny]

26 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

The people who let down the Black Lives Matter movement are the actual organisation Black Lives Matter. We all agree with the movement but the organisation themselves are actual extremists. The policing system in America is in need of actual reform. Can you say the same about the UK? I wouldn't personally.

The Labour Party needs to be a governing party. A governing party can't just be activists and the majority of the electorate don't want activists governing them. The thing with Starmer is he can't win either way when it comes to the loud minority on social media. When he took a knee and posted it on social media in support of BLM he was accused of pandering to Corbyn's woke brigade. When he wasn't there at the front of the march on Whitehall he was accused of being "Blue Labour" and pandering to those causing the problem. Luckily for him, the majority of voters aren't involved in the culture war of Twitter and the internet. As far as most voters are concerned, and I'm not saying I'm in their camp, both Starmer and Johnson reflected their views on Black Lives Matter in that the movement has merit and the protests were legitimate but it didn't require a heated conversation about tearing down statues, defunding the police and rewriting school curriculums in the middle of a worldwide pandemic.

Of course it needs a reform, not just the police but laws as well. Proportionally compared to populations there are more black people in prison in the UK than there are in America.

Black people specifically are targeted by the police all the time. Our prisons are run by private contracts, they’re now an industry aiming to profit.

Again this effects black people specifically, but also the working classes in general, criminals with mental health problems are rarely diagnosed, given health care plans, end up in and out of the system. Police who are untrained as social workers are consistently called out to incidents where someone is having some sort of break down.

The system is in need of an overhaul, end the war on drugs (poor people), invest massively in social work, invest massively in mental health provisions. Cuts in public services like youth centres and social care put the onus onto the police, so instead of having systems that try to prevent kids from getting into crime and being put through the system, you encourage that they commit crime and to win votes increase policing which increases the amount of people going through the system.

The current system works great for the middle classes, white especially, not that great for those below that.

Any leader who claims to support BLM for example but does not want to reform the way black people (and others) are consistently oppressed and exploited is just a liar.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Danny

[RandoEFC+]

13 minutes ago, Inverted said:

Labour having, rightly or wrongly, decided it was tired of a leader who had an opinion on everything, has decided to go for a leader who has no opinions at all. 

He also fails to realise that pandering to the right only makes sense if the other guys  are pandering to the left. If the pandering only ever goes one way then we end up an insular, mollycoddled, smooth-brained electorate that votes us into the types of disasters like we've experienced for the last decade. 

Starmer isn't pandering to the right though. He's appealing to the centre. You might view them as right wing compared to your own worldview, but on the spectrum of the British electorate, they are the centre. There are a lot of traditional Labour voters in that centre, there has to be otherwise they'd never have been in power. I'd love us to have a public like the Scandinavians where their "centre" is a lot more towards the left than ours but we just don't. You can't fight politically on the battleground you want to exist.

Corbyn's leadership made a certain offer to the public. The offer wasn't accepted and it gave us the most right wing government we've had in our lifetimes. This Conservative offer would never have won against Blair. If we want any chance of living in a fairer country, unfortunately Labour are going to have to get into power by going what we'd call more to the right to get into power, and then showing the country the benefits of a left wing government.

You can also hardly say Corbyn had an opinion on everything. He basically stayed out of the EU debate in 2016, then when it came to the elections in 2019 he didn't have an opinion on Brexit in an election that was forced to happen because of Brexit, other than holding a second referendum. I respect the man and didn't lose a wink of sleep voting for his Labour Party, and I wouldn't if there was an election tomorrow with him as leader. Unfortunately though, he got fucking trounced by an idiot who hides in fridges and unless you want the Tories to keep winning every election for the rest of our lifetimes, Labour need to make significant changes. Johnson has absolutely fucked Coronavirus and it'll soon become apparent that he's fucked Brexit too, but because the Tories know how to win, they'll replace him for the next election with whichever leader gives them the best chance of winning again.

I want a Labour Party that fights to make my life better by getting into government and getting the Tories out more than I want a Labour Party that represents my significantly left-wing views on every single matter.

[Honey Honey]

I never said anyone was attached to Starmer. I said that there is crap posted in here that is detrimental to the Starmer cause which is a Labour government.

I've raised this before on here when Corbyn was incharge, the way some express certain attitudes around weak arguments is symbolic of what pushes people to Johnson. I'm also well aware that if I wanted to change someone's mind saying they talk crap would not be the way to do that. That itself is the same thing in a more crude form. 

This is a publishing platform. It can be read by members and guests who don't reply, but the posts sometimes look like the sort of bonding session 6 pints in I've had many times in Westminster and Soho. You start to talk crap and hatred that gets likes because there's no one to pull you up on it.

It's not about agreeing with everything the Labour Party says. It's not about promoting their point regardless. It's about recognising you're associated with Labour, like it or not, and thus should be thinking on a publishing platform and is the argument tight enough to pull support in or is it pushing people away.

It's no good contributing to a culture of pushing people away for years then complaining that the Conservatives won.

Imagine you're a potential swing voter who went Conservative in 2019. Suspend your agenda and think about the reasons why. Think about the attitudes and thoughts that you can compromise on. That can be palatable. Think about what isn't palatable to them and whether you can be gentle around it without compromising your position.

When Johnson said freedom loving the responses on here were weak arguments, the kind that reinforces the conservative vote. 

[RandoEFC+]

4 minutes ago, Danny said:

Of course it needs a reform, not just the police but laws as well. Proportionally compared to populations there are more black people in prison in the UK than there are in America.

Black people specifically are targeted by the police all the time. Our prisons are run by private contracts, they’re now an industry aiming to profit.

Again this effects black people specifically, but also the working classes in general, criminals with mental health problems are rarely diagnosed, given health care plans, end up in and out of the system. Police who are untrained as social workers are consistently called out to incidents where someone is having some sort of break down.

The system is in need of an overhaul, end the war on drugs (poor people), invest massively in social work, invest massively in mental health provisions. Cuts in public services like youth centres and social care put the onus onto the police, so instead of having systems that try to prevent kids from getting into crime and being put through the system, you encourage that they commit crime and to win votes increase policing which increases the amount of people going through the system.

The current system works great for the middle classes, white especially, not that great for those below that.

Any leader who claims to support BLM for example but does not want to reform the way black people (and others) are consistently oppressed and exploited is just a liar.

You don't start with "defund the police" though do you. I attended a voluntary three hour workshop last night run by a group of BAME residents of the island specifically for teachers to hear about their experiences of racism in school and what we can do to help stop that from happening. As far as social media is concerned, I'm an absolutely rabid "woke leftie" because I really care about shit like that.

Again, though, you can have a Labour government which will make some if not all of the changes you mention above, or you can put another Corbyn in charge who promises utopia and end up with a Conservative government who will put Chris Grayling back in charge of prisons, make all of those issues you've mentioned twice as bad and create another half a dozen on top of them.

If Starmer starts aligning himself directly with BLM and plastering defund the police all over his election manifesto he'll end up with less seats than the Lib Dems. He's playing a smart game. He's outpolling Boris Johnson (shouldn't be that hard but the man did win an 80 seat majority less than a year ago) and Labour have gained over 10 points in the polls on the Tories, helped by the Cummings and exam result scandals yes, but if Corbyn was still in charge the Daily Telegraph would have found another skeleton in his closet by now and Labour would still be also-rans.

[Inverted]

44 minutes ago, Steve Bruce Almighty said:

I never said anyone was attached to Starmer. I said that there is crap posted in here that is detrimental to the Starmer cause which is a Labour government.

I've raised this before on here when Corbyn was incharge, the way some express certain attitudes around weak arguments is symbolic of what pushes people to Johnson. I'm also well aware that if I wanted to change someone's mind saying they talk crap would not be the way to do that. That itself is the same thing in a more crude form. 

This is a publishing platform. It can be read by members and guests who don't reply, but the posts sometimes look like the sort of bonding session 6 pints in I've had many times in Westminster and Soho. You start to talk crap and hatred that gets likes because there's no one to pull you up on it.

It's not about agreeing with everything the Labour Party says. It's not about promoting their point regardless. It's about recognising you're associated with Labour, like it or not, and thus should be thinking on a publishing platform and is the argument tight enough to pull support in or is it pushing people away.

It's no good contributing to a culture of pushing people away for years then complaining that the Conservatives won.

Imagine you're a potential swing voter who went Conservative in 2019. Suspend your agenda and think about the reasons why. Think about the attitudes and thoughts that you can compromise on. That can be palatable. Think about what isn't palatable to them and whether you can be gentle around it without compromising your position.

When Johnson said freedom loving the responses on here were weak arguments, the kind that reinforces the conservative vote. 

How can one meaningfully engage with the proposition that Britons are more freedom loving? It's a meaningless piece of bluster - to engage with it, even if you could somehow empirically refute it, would be to show it respect that it doesn't merit. 

And in any case, the electorate does not respond to measured responses and to argument. They respond to visceral feeling and to emotional responses. By this I mostly mean fear and hate. 

Labour's failing in the last ten years has been an obsession with constructive discussion and fact-based policy-making, and a marked failure to stoke anything like the hate which their opposition merits - and which their opposition stokes towards them. 

Yes you've got your young people online who hate Tories - that's small fry. The Tories have people out in the real world in such a frenzy that elderly Labour activists are attacked in the street and that its politicians are targets for assassination. 

Can you imagine hating and fearing a political party so much that you see their badge and you feel compelled to punch an elderly man on your doorstep? I hate the Tory party to a frightening degree, and even I can't imagine that.

That is the kind of feeling that the Tories have managed to create. This is an enormous political achievement on their part, and you simply cannot achieve it by moderation or by appealing to people's intellect. 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Inverted

[Danny]

38 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

You don't start with "defund the police" though do you. I attended a voluntary three hour workshop last night run by a group of BAME residents of the island specifically for teachers to hear about their experiences of racism in school and what we can do to help stop that from happening. As far as social media is concerned, I'm an absolutely rabid "woke leftie" because I really care about shit like that.

Again, though, you can have a Labour government which will make some if not all of the changes you mention above, or you can put another Corbyn in charge who promises utopia and end up with a Conservative government who will put Chris Grayling back in charge of prisons, make all of those issues you've mentioned twice as bad and create another half a dozen on top of them.

If Starmer starts aligning himself directly with BLM and plastering defund the police all over his election manifesto he'll end up with less seats than the Lib Dems. He's playing a smart game. He's outpolling Boris Johnson (shouldn't be that hard but the man did win an 80 seat majority less than a year ago) and Labour have gained over 10 points in the polls on the Tories, helped by the Cummings and exam result scandals yes, but if Corbyn was still in charge the Daily Telegraph would have found another skeleton in his closet by now and Labour would still be also-rans.

You do start with defund the police because it fits on a banner lol, it’s a statement.

Corbyn was never getting in charge and Starmer knows he has to win back the Labour supporters that went UKIP/Brexit/Tory, because of that Starmer is not going to properly support black people.

[DeadLinesman]

In my personal opinion, people who want to defund the police are part of the problem, not the solution.

[RandoEFC+]

18 minutes ago, Danny said:

You do start with defund the police because it fits on a banner lol, it’s a statement.

Corbyn was never getting in charge and Starmer knows he has to win back the Labour supporters that went UKIP/Brexit/Tory, because of that Starmer is not going to properly support black people.

Defund the police will switch off probably over 90% of the electorate before you manage to engage them in a conversation about what it means. It's an easily attackable slogan because it doesn't sum up what you're trying to put across. Even Reform the Police would be much, much better but still very bad. I actually think our police force are a massive positive for the country. Put yourself in their shoes, the vast majority of them go into the job wanting to protect and serve the public. When both the anti-racism protests and the pro-"statue" but actually pro-racism protests went on in London, our police were spat at, abused, attacked, and stood up to it professionally without hurting the members of the public there, even those that actually attacked them. There's no denying that some of them have unconscious biases that don't make them sinister, with a very small minority, as you have in every profession, harbouring some very real prejudices. We all want to change that but you have to do it by parts.

There's no leader who can meet your definition of properly supporting black people, i.e. making everything and everyone in the country perfectly fair in one manifesto and one term of office. Starmer will properly support black people better than Corbyn ever could because he's actually potentially electable. It might not be perfect but wanting the perfect leader before worrying about winning the electorate over is Labour's problem to a tee over the past 5 years, and is one of the reasons we've ended up with Boris Johnson, Brexit and the disastrous handling of Covid.