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2 hours ago, Gunnersauraus said:

I was talking to someone the other day about the government lack of a plan to deal with the psychological effects of the lockdowns. I've had to take loads of time of work because of poor mental health because of lockdowns. Surely the government would have been advised this would happen but no plan was in place to deal with it.

Funnily enough I think the forums have helped during the lock-downs as long as you can find some form of exercise to counter inactivity.

However for those oldies (80+) that get out less a number of ones I know have come down with mild dementia. 

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14 minutes ago, Waylander said:

Funnily enough I think the forums have helped during the lock-downs as long as you can find some form of exercise to counter inactivity.

However for those oldies (80+) that get out less a number of ones I know have come down with mild dementia. 

This forums quite good actually. A few years ago maybe not. But most people on here are quite nice. Most conversations stay fairly civil until I start defending referees 😂

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30 minutes ago, Waylander said:

However for those oldies (80+) that get out less a number of ones I know have come down with mild dementia. 

@Bluewolf does often forget how many times he's visited 9GAG each day to be fair.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Let's remember the SNP in Scotland reduced the voting age to 16. Some might suggest an almost gerrymandering tactic.

Although they have fossil fuels and a decent chance of making tidal power work they will still need investment for the latter and also lose the economics of scale to pay for a generous welfare and state job system.

Then their is the question of their share of UK debt and how they service that.

Now in terms of the EU, the EU will need to see them stand on their own feet economically to judge whether they will receive EU aid or be a contributor. That is likley to be a few years.

I've nothing personally against the Scots though think  there will be pain ahead should they choose to separate. 

 

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On 24/10/2021 at 23:57, Waylander said:

Let's remember the SNP in Scotland reduced the voting age to 16. Some might suggest an almost gerrymandering tactic.

Although they have fossil fuels and a decent chance of making tidal power work they will still need investment for the latter and also lose the economics of scale to pay for a generous welfare and state job system.

Then their is the question of their share of UK debt and how they service that.

Now in terms of the EU, the EU will need to see them stand on their own feet economically to judge whether they will receive EU aid or be a contributor. That is likley to be a few years.

I've nothing personally against the Scots though think  there will be pain ahead should they choose to separate. 

 

I think for a lot of young people,  there is an acknowledgement of the fact that there will be an immediate economic hit. But I think this is largely outweighed by a really sincere fear that the future of the UK is going to be a long, slow slide away from democracy and a constant worsening of social conditions. 

It's a difficult question because fundamentally different questions are at play. People tend to talk past each other because their priorities are just completely different. Is an overall hit to living standards worth a more engaged democracy and safer rule of law? Could the economic hit be made-up for within our lifetimes? Is there any hope of the UK turning course and developing in a direction which Scottish people can accept? 

Not to mention that depending on the economic policies pursued, actual living standards for many people could be improved even while indicators such as GDP growth falter. GDP growth doesn't always mean things are improving for normal people, and vice-versa. One issue is that the SNP seems like they would pursue the route of austerity and fiscal conservatism, which I think would exacerbate the economic hit.

But I think most young people aren't overly supportive of the SNP in terms of its actual economic policies, but just accept them as a tool for achieving independence. 

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35 minutes ago, Inverted said:

I think for a lot of young people,  there is an acknowledgement of the fact that there will be an immediate economic hit. But I think this is largely outweighed by a really sincere fear that the future of the UK is going to be a long, slow slide away from democracy and a constant worsening of social conditions. 

It's a difficult question because fundamentally different questions are at play. People tend to talk past each other because their priorities are just completely different. Is an overall hit to living standards worth a more engaged democracy and safer rule of law? Could the economic hit be made-up for within our lifetimes? Is there any hope of the UK turning course and developing in a direction which Scottish people can accept? 

Not to mention that depending on the economic policies pursued, actual living standards for many people could be improved even while indicators such as GDP growth falter. GDP growth doesn't always mean things are improving for normal people, and vice-versa. One issue is that the SNP seems like they would pursue the route of austerity and fiscal conservatism, which I think would exacerbate the economic hit.

But I think most young people aren't overly supportive of the SNP in terms of its actual economic policies, but just accept them as a tool for achieving independence. 

I'm not for or against the fall of the Union (well, on the island of Britain anyway) but one thing that's interested me is how far right would Scottish politics go once you remove the barrier of the Conservative party. It opens up a space in Scotland for Scottish rightwing politicians to create a purely mainstream Scottish conservatism, where you can push Scottish independence/nationalism and right wing ideology at the same time.

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2 hours ago, Danny said:

I'm not for or against the fall of the Union (well, on the island of Britain anyway) but one thing that's interested me is how far right would Scottish politics go once you remove the barrier of the Conservative party. It opens up a space in Scotland for Scottish rightwing politicians to create a purely mainstream Scottish conservatism, where you can push Scottish independence/nationalism and right wing ideology at the same time.

It depends on how active an issue independence remained after a hypothetical split. The SNP is an ideological mess because so many people who are personally to it’s left and right hold their nose and support it purely to achieve Indy. Likewise, the Tory vote includes a lot of people who vote Tory purely to try and keep the SNP out. 

I think if the pro-Indy conservative Alba party types and the right-wing of the Conservative party could perhaps coalesce, then you would have a proper Scottish right-wing party. 

But I also think there would be a larger move to the left. Many left-leaning people who support the SNP for tactical reasons would probably move to other, less centrist parties once Indy was achieved.

 

 

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Ironic isn't it they may vote SNP to get independence yet post independence most would vote either to the Left or Right.

Reminds me a little of Churchill post end of WWII he was voted out at the first chance. 

 

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Scottish independence would be a nightmare for both parties. Look at the mess that has been made in Ireland thanks to Brexit. There is no Good Friday Agreement to cause quite as much bother in a sense but as long as the UK remains outside of the EU there's an absolutely colossal border problem between England and Scotland where all of the infrastructure in place has been built to treat it as one country.

I don't blame the Scots for wanting out (or about half of them anyway) but the real solution for all parties is to get rid of the current government in Westminster and replace it with one that a huge number of Scottish people don't find repugnant. Too bad England doesn't seem to want to play ball with that idea, and the Scots are fed up of waiting for it to happen, which is why I totally get the desire for independence. It still doesn't make it a good idea though. And that's not to "do down" Scotland. It's just that getting away from being governed by Westminster is one thing, the reality of building an independent government, constitution and economy from scratch, a return to the EU, a Southern border, it's all very complicated and will take decades to iron out the creases.

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I think the SNP wanted to switch from the UK and move straight into the EU zone.

This was scuppered by Spain who has it's own problems with Catalonia and previously the Basques.

Spain was one of the early members and so they influenced the decision, IMO.

Spain are consistent on this, they won't even recognise Kosovo.

 

 

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3 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

First LAB lead from any pollster since the pre-vaccine days if I'm not mistaken.

So what will the Tory Grandees be thinking Green +5 how do we grab that vote?

To be fair on surface rhetoric BJ seemed to be making the right noises though little action has permeated through.

That might need to change before the election.

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1 hour ago, Waylander said:

So what will the Tory Grandees be thinking Green +5 how do we grab that vote?

To be fair on surface rhetoric BJ seemed to be making the right noises though little action has permeated through.

That might need to change before the election.

The Tory > Green shift isn't new. It seems strange on face value because it feels as if people are moving from right to left on the political spectrum and just skipping Labour out which seems like the natural step between Tory and Green if you simplify things by removing the Lib Dems.

You could read it as Labour moving back to the center, picking up that -5 from the Tories but then losing just as many voters to the Greens, resulting in no net gain for Labour and a +5 for the Greens, but that isn't really consistent with the evidence.

There are many areas in the country, such as the South East, where the Lib Dems have traditionally been the main opposition to the Conservatives and Labour are totally unpalatable. The Greens are starting to displace the Lib Dems as that party in some of these areas. They're also getting some joy in proper lefty/Corbynite areas like Bristol and parts of Merseyside. It's also likely that some of the people who answer these polls but don't pay full attention have been scared/inspired a bit by the COP26 stuff and are just going through a "Green" phase.

To summarise, there's a lot of speculation, particularly my last couple of points, but you can see from the local elections in the summer that in some areas of the country, particularly the Tory shires, the Greens as well as the Lib Dems are seen as a valid alternative to the Conservatives where Labour aren't a factor. The Tory > Green swing is a real thing in parts of the country despite it seeming quite a radical shift on the political compass on face value.

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Mid term there is often unpopularity in the ruling party so it not necessarily indicative of the next election outcome though they would be wise no to take notice.

I have heard of some areas where Conservatives may lose out due to H2N cutting through their counties and this could go either Green or LIbDem.

 

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5 hours ago, Stan said:

Also this. 

 

 

Yeah it's one poll and the election is a long way off but it's interesting in that second scenario that the only possible majority government would he a LAB-SNP or CON-SNP coalition. Probably whichever one agrees to a second independence referendum. Both major parties need to work out what their strategy is for convincing Scottish people that they should vote to stay with the UK again instead of just trying to figure out how to deny them the referendum, which seems to be the only strategy the current government have up their sleeves.

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Isn't that an ok strategy though? Free shot at a big chunk of the Scottish electorate in doing so. The SNP often spend more on campaigning than Labour and the Conservatives combined in Scotland. The dilemma is whether it is worth Labour directing more funds to Scotland rather than marginal seats in England and Wales.  You'd be hard pushed to make a case that it is worth bothering competing with the SNP right now. The risk of doing so is to lose a general election. You'll probably get a better return on investment by targeting seats in England and Wales to bring about a majority. Whilst rUK is so easily swung and the SNP so entrenched, Scotland will be trapped in an unhealthy electoral state. 

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On 14/11/2021 at 09:27, Honey Honey said:

Isn't that an ok strategy though? Free shot at a big chunk of the Scottish electorate in doing so. The SNP often spend more on campaigning than Labour and the Conservatives combined in Scotland. The dilemma is whether it is worth Labour directing more funds to Scotland rather than marginal seats in England and Wales.  You'd be hard pushed to make a case that it is worth bothering competing with the SNP right now. The risk of doing so is to lose a general election. You'll probably get a better return on investment by targeting seats in England and Wales to bring about a majority. Whilst rUK is so easily swung and the SNP so entrenched, Scotland will be trapped in an unhealthy electoral state. 

Yeah if I was Labour I'd probably accept the prospect of coalition with SNP and just make sure I won enough seats in England and Wales to deny the Tories enough seats for a majority. Got to have a plan for the independence referendum though because if Scotland leave the UK we're probably consigned to permanent Tory rule.

Anyway, came in this thread with nothing new, but every so often I get surprised again at the openness with which the Conservative party tells us exactly who they are (a lot of them anyway) whilst still being able to convince enough of the country that they're acting in their interests to stay almost constantly in power.

 

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There is something that is quite concerning for me. Although I think boris is a lying despicable person, and the worst prime minister in my time. The next one could be worse. I mean I actually would consider leaving the country if Jacob reese mogg was prime minister. Gove is probably as bad as boris. Sunak is the best of a bad bunch. Although I think he voted to let children starve so he is still a massive cunt. 

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5 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

There is something that is quite concerning for me. Although I think boris is a lying despicable person, and the worst prime minister in my time. The next one could be worse. I mean I actually would consider leaving the country if Jacob reese mogg was prime minister. Gove is probably as bad as boris. Sunak is the best of a bad bunch. Although I think he voted to let children starve so he is still a massive cunt. 

I dunno if we'll ever have a PM as bad as David Cameron, although Boris could run him close just because he was PM during big moments in our recent history (the man to lead us through Brexit, lol, and also the pandemic) and he's just fucking inept. But I will forever associate Cameron as the man who set the UK on the downward spiral we've seen for some time and will probably keep seeing for some time.

The state of political leadership in the UK is an absolute joke, I dunno if there's any MP out there that I know of that I think would make a good PM.

God help us if Gove ends up PM xD - he's as inept as they come and lacks any of the charisma (if you want to call it that) that BoJo the clown has. I feel it'd be the same as having Boris in charge, just more detestable.

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@Dr. Gonzo I think a vote on the UK's membership was inevitable to be fair. Im not sure if Cameron can be blamed for that. Boris was the one who told all the lies and had a prominent part in happening. Then again he cant be blamed if people are stupid enough to believe someone who got fired from a newspaper  for lying. 

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In one of my last jobs before COV-ID was working alongside consultants and one had a daughter obsessed with Peppa Pig and yes they went to Peppa Pig World. 

Peppa Pig worth £6bn to the economy, not to be sniffed at for me   🙂

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