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World Cup FINAL - Argentina (p) 3-3 France - Sunday 18th December, 2022

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By Stan,
in World Cup - Knockout Stages

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Mel81x+

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35 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Most common argument against Messi being the greatest was: he’s never won anything internationally.

Then Argentina won the Copa America. And the goalposts shifted to “he’s never won the World Cup” - now that’s over now.

Messi’s record at the club level is absolutely incredible. Both with Barca as a club & individual stats. Now he’s got the Copa America & World Cup. Not as many as Pelé or Maradona, or other several players… but it’s a different time and his career is phenomenal no matter how you slice it. And he’s got the international trophies on his resume too.

There can ALWAYS be debate, especially because with Pelé, Maradona & Messi it’s different eras… but a lot of the “typical” arguments against Messi are gone now.

The problem is we think there has to be a hierarchy of who is the best when really there should be none. Each era produces a different set of problems for players to overcome. Idk but for me it's still Maradona. What he did with Napoli is something no one else has ever been able to do and he won a World Cup as well. Having said that this diminishes nothing from Pele, Messi, C. Ronaldo or whoever else they want to throw into this bucket. 

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Carnivore Chris

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3 hours ago, DeadLinesman said:

Fantastic. 

8182A713-A389-486B-ABD5-E27BBC862711.jpeg

He did it in the Copa America as well but doing it in what was a more formal type of situation in a world cup final in Qatar is hilarious. Funny fella. He was as big a hero for Argentina as any in this tournament and the Copa.

 

That was some final and the best I've seen since going back to 94(I'm too young to remember 86 and 90) but I'm glad it went to who it did. Messi deserved a world cup and Argentina as a country did when you see how much their fans wanted it and the effort of their team and the spirit.

They don't half make it difficult though. At 2-0, they should have carried on doing what they were doing and would have smashed France by like 4 goals. The likes of Di Maria, Messi and Mccaliser were having fun until they started to slow the tempo down, then took off Di Maria. Why not carry on like that?

If France came back it was literally because Argentina let them like against Netherlands. @Berserker is likely dead now from a heart attack, when really he should have been all relaxed and chilled at 60 mins with his team 3 or 4 up. It's not like France even made it hard, they were awful for 80 mins. 

Mbappe is going to go down as a generational talent that will win several balón d'ors, but Argentina could have prevented any of what happened for me.

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Spike

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6 hours ago, 6666 said:

Their club careers were shit in comparison. Both Messi and Ronaldo had Maradona & Pele beat long ago.

 

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Most common argument against Messi being the greatest was: he’s never won anything internationally.

Then Argentina won the Copa America. And the goalposts shifted to “he’s never won the World Cup” - now that’s over now.

Messi’s record at the club level is absolutely incredible. Both with Barca as a club & individual stats. Now he’s got the Copa America & World Cup. Not as many as Pelé or Maradona, or other several players… but it’s a different time and his career is phenomenal no matter how you slice it. And he’s got the international trophies on his resume too.

There can ALWAYS be debate, especially because with Pelé, Maradona & Messi it’s different eras… but a lot of the “typical” arguments against Messi are gone now.

In a statistics and trophies point of view, yes I do suppose that Messi and Ronaldo have the others beat. But that doesn’t take into context who they were playing, the zeitgeist of the sport, rule changes, professionalism changes, etc. The only way I can make a decision is with an eye test, it isn’t an objective fact but I will say I prefer to watch Maradona, then Messi, then Pele, and then Cristiano Ronaldo

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Spike

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1 hour ago, Devil-Dick Willie said:

I got black out drunk at the work christmas party so I missed it, I awoke to Messi (p) and knew the deed was done. 

Post 70mins you missed one of the best games ever. Before that was horrible.

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Dr. Gonzo

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14 minutes ago, Spike said:

 

In a statistics and trophies point of view, yes I do suppose that Messi and Ronaldo have the others beat. But that doesn’t take into context who they were playing, the zeitgeist of the sport, rule changes, professionalism changes, etc. The only way I can make a decision is with an eye test, it isn’t an objective fact but I will say I prefer to watch Maradona, then Messi, then Pele, and then Cristiano Ronaldo

Yeah that’s fair. Tbh I think it’s hard to compare players from different eras so it sort of becomes a matter of opinion. And I think I agree with your opinion as well.

But I do think Messi’s done enough and won enough to probably be definitively called the best player of this generation… and probably in my lifetime. I think that was true before this World Cup final tbh. But now there’s one less argument against it.

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Beelzebub

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Great game. The penalty was soft no doubt but Argentina deserved to be ahead at that time.

France didn't want to play Giroud because of the lack of pace but I think he would finished the two chances one that cross from Mbappe and just before penalties with his arobatics. 

Happy for Messi. 

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Spike

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3 minutes ago, Beelzebub said:

Why did Martinez got the golden glove ? penalties come after 120 minutes and he has conceded 8 goals with mistakes of his own. Moroccon and Croatian keeper far more deserving.

Because he told them what his celebration would be  beforehand and FIFA thought they would call his bluff

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...Dan

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The first 70 minutes weren't the best but the 2nd Argentina goal was brilliant. I've rewatched it several times. Five passes, starting from their defensive third, each timed to perfection, weighted to perfection, and Di Maria on the end of the final pass from Mac Allister to finish it.

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Gunnersaurus

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2 minutes ago, ...Dan said:

The first 70 minutes weren't the best but the 2nd Argentina goal was brilliant. I've rewatched it several times. Five passes, starting from their defensive third, each timed to perfection, weighted to perfection, and Di Maria on the end of the final pass from Mac Allister to finish it.

I think it depends what you like. The first half was a masterclass from Argentina which made it enjoyable in my opinion. It wasn't as good in the second half until the 80th minute I suppose but still ok. But the overall drama makes it the best world cup final I would imagine. To be honest I think overall it was a very entertaining world cup 

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Gunnersaurus

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1 hour ago, Cicero said:

If he isn’t scoring, he’s making things happen. 
 

 

Yeah I did think Ronaldo was better before until you told me why you thought messi was better was because of his all round game. Its still very debatable but I do think messi is better based of what I have seen and read. Also he is so much of a better leader than Ronaldo. You can see how much he inspires the team

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