(CL R16) - Eintracht Frankfurt 0-2 Napoli - Tuesday 21st February, 2023 (1st Leg)

[Reluctant Striker]

On the Bundesliga vs Serie A, it feels like Serie A is the place to find ex-Premier League players. The Bundesliga the place to find future Premier League players. I'm not sure there's much to choose. 

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Reluctant Striker said:

On the Bundesliga vs Serie A, it feels like Serie A is the place to find ex-Premier League players. The Bundesliga the place to find future Premier League players. I'm not sure there's much to choose. 

That's interesting. The only person I can think of off the top of my head on Inter that played in the EPL would be Lukaku. And that team is fairly loaded.

Napoli have two great young talents, one came from a team in Georgia, while the other came from Lille.

I know Giroud and Zlatan (AC) came from EPL, but the latter has played everywhere at this point so it's not fair to consider him an ex-EPL player as I consider his best days in Serie A (Juve and Inter)

[Tommy]

2 hours ago, Eco said:

 

Osimhen I've heard to England.

 

What's funny is that he's been at Wolfsburg years ago, and didn't do shit. 

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Tommy said:

What's funny is that he's been at Wolfsburg years ago, and didn't do shit. 

He only played 14 games and it looks like it was his first team outside of Nigeria, so maybe that has a lot to do with it.

Regardless, the guy is thriving now and looking incredible with the ball at his feet.

[Tommy]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

He only played 14 games and it looks like it was his first team outside of Nigeria, so maybe that has a lot to do with it.

Regardless, the guy is thriving now and looking incredible with the ball at his feet.

Definitely. Wolfsburg must be ashamed, seeing what he is worth now. And how they just let him go. 

 

[Tommy]

7 hours ago, Eco said:

I think the Serie A is more difficult overall than the Bundesliga

 

 

 

[Michael]

52 minutes ago, Eco said:

I think Napoli, Inter, Juve, and Lazio, and Roma are better than the top 5 teams in Germany. The two are close on the UEFA country coefficients, but I usually take that with some grain of salt as Germany has one annual giant, and then Dortmund has their year every 5 or so years, whereas it's more spread out with the Italian teams.

Bayern, Dortmund and RB Leipzig are better than Inter, Juve, Lazio and Roma. While Bayern are definitely better than Napoli, with Dortmund and RB Leipzig being arguably better than Napoli. You name Juve, they got slapped around by Benfica and PSG in the group stage of this years Champions League and Juve even lost to the whipping boys Maccabi Haifa.

Just in the last few seasons gone past, German clubs have done better than Italian clubs. While in the Europa League last season, Frankfurt were the winners and RB Leipzig reached the semi-finals. Napoli and Lazio got knocked out early in the knockout round play-offs, while Atalanta were beaten easily by RB Leipzig in the quarter finals. The results speak for themselves and that is what one must go by, instead of following their feelings.

[Michael]

25 minutes ago, Tommy said:

What's funny is that he's been at Wolfsburg years ago, and didn't do shit. 

Yeah, he couldn't hack a stronger league. 

[Lucas]

I'd love to see this Napoli team get to the final.

They remind me of how on fire and exciting that Ajax team was a few years ago in this competition.

They have some tremendous players, probably the most in form striker in Europe (with Rashford) and keep it solid at the back.

It really would be a great spectacle seeing them play in the final with their passionate support behind them.

[Eco]

4 minutes ago, Michael said:

Bayern, Dortmund and RB Leipzig are better than Inter, Juve, Lazio and Roma. While Bayern are definitely better than Napoli, with Dortmund and RB Leipzig being arguably better than Napoli. You name Juve, they got slapped around by Benfica and PSG in the group stage of this years Champions League and Juve even lost to the whipping boys Maccabi Haifa.

Just in the last few seasons gone past, German clubs have done better than Italian clubs. While in the Europa League last season, Frankfurt were the winners and RB Leipzig reached the semi-finals. Napoli and Lazio got knocked out early in the knockout round play-offs, while Atalanta were beaten easily by RB Leipzig in the quarter finals. The results speak for themselves and that is what one must go by, instead of following their feelings.

I assure you that my feelings for the Bundesliga are greater than that of Serie A.

I would definitely NOT agree that Bayern are better than Napoli.Both are playing well this year, but Napoli have continued that great run into the league where they have basically wrapped it up mid way through. You speak of Eintracht, but just today Frankfurt lost to this Napoli team 2-0, in a game that saw Napoli missed a penalty, and almost score a couple more goals. Napoli have beaten Liverpool 4-1, and Ajax 6-1 in Amsterdam...Again, I think a lot of people are sleeping on Napoli.

Juve has a bad CL campaign, sure. But it was also during an investigation in their financials which ultimately saw them found guilty and deducted points.

Inter, AC Roma, and Lazio, are all having strong seasons. As are teams from Germany, but when it comes to the entire league, which I watch with some regularity (more than I watch the EPL for sure), I think Serie A might be slightly better.

Slightly.

Nothing major, and certainly nothing we can truly put up against one another at this time, but I do think Bayern, Dortmund, Leverkusen, might be weaker this year than in years past. Whereas I do think RB, Frankfurt, Union, and Frieburg all appear better.

It would be interesting to see a like for like battle between the two leagues, but of course that won't happen.

[Eco]

14 minutes ago, Michael said:

Yeah, he couldn't hack a stronger league. 

He just put a whopping on Eintracht Frankfurt in Germany, so I don't think that was his problem.

[Michael]

39 minutes ago, Eco said:

Neither one of them are a top 2 league in Europe as those belong to England and Spain respectively.

Juve are a good team Not great, but really good. Don't be confused by the standings in the table as they were (stop when you've heard this before) caught cheating and thus deducted points.

Again, on what basis do you come to that conclusion? I'd say the Prem is the strongest league, followed by the Bundesliga, with La Liga 3rd. In the Champions League this season, Leverkusen beat Atletico Madrid 2-0 at home and drew 2-2 away. In the same competition this season, Bayern beat Barcelona 2-0 at home and they defeated them again 3-0 away(aggregate of 5-0 to Bayern). Also in this years CL, Dortmund beat Seville 4-1 and then drew their other encounter 1-1. Even RB Leipzig beat Real Madrid(Spain's strongest team) 3-2 in the group stage. All these results are from this seasons Champions League my friend. So again, I think that all the indications suggest that the Bundesliga is probably better than the La Liga.

[Eco]

31 minutes ago, Tommy said:

 

 

 

So by this logic, The Russian Premier League is harder than La Liga?

Seems iffy.

[Tommy]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

So by this logic, The Russian Premier League is harder than La Liga?

Seems iffy.

If they are closer on points than a team dominating the league by 15 points, probably. Also begs the question what you mean by "harder". 

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Michael said:

Again, on what basis do you come to that conclusion? I'd say the Prem is the strongest league, followed by the Bundesliga, with La Liga 3rd. In the Champions League this season, Leverkusen beat Atletico Madrid 2-0 at home and drew 2-2 away. In the same competition this season, Bayern beat Barcelona 2-0 at home and they defeated them again 3-0 away(aggregate of 5-0 to Bayern). Also in this years CL, Dortmund beat Seville 4-1 and then drew their other encounter 1-1. Even RB Leipzig beat Real Madrid(Spain's strongest team) 3-2 in the group stage. All these results are from this seasons Champions League my friend. So again, I think that all the indications suggest that the Bundesliga is probably better than the La Liga.

Time out.

You think the Bundesliga is ahead of La Liga?

You speak about looking at facts and not feelings, yet state this.

Sevilla, a team in the relegation battle in Spain, beat Frankfurt in the Group Stages..but do I think Frankfurt are worse than Sevilla? No.

I watch the games and make my own determinations. Sure I use head-to-head, but I also count the situations as well. Like today, I would have expected Real to not beat Liverpool so bad because of their upcoming schedule, but alas they did.

My point is, I just take it all in and use my best judgement when I was talking about the Serie A being slightly stronger than the Bundesliga.

If you think the Bundesliga is better than La Liga though, then you are using just points that suit your outcome, and even that is a stretch, as La Liga is having a down year this year with Sevilla and Valencia down near the bottom, but still I think it's a much stronger league that Bundesliga.

It's a silly argument really, as it can never be confirmed or denied with true facts. But if I had to rank my top 5 leagues, I'd go

1. EPL
2. La Liga

3a. Serie A
3b. Bundesliga

5. Ligue 1

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Tommy said:

If they are closer on points than a team dominating the league by 15 points, probably. Also begs the question what you mean by "harder". 

Maybe Stronger is a better term to use. Not which league is the closet at the moment.

[Michael]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

I assure you that my feelings for the Bundesliga are greater than that of Serie A.

I would definitely NOT agree that Bayern are better than Napoli.Both are playing well this year, but Napoli have continued that great run into the league where they have basically wrapped it up mid way through. You speak of Eintracht, but just today Frankfurt lost to this Napoli team 2-0, in a game that saw Napoli missed a penalty, and almost score a couple more goals. Napoli have beaten Liverpool 4-1, and Ajax 6-1 in Amsterdam...Again, I think a lot of people are sleeping on Napoli.

Juve has a bad CL campaign, sure. But it was also during an investigation in their financials which ultimately saw them found guilty and deducted points.

Inter, AC Roma, and Lazio, are all having strong seasons. As are teams from Germany, but when it comes to the entire league, which I watch with some regularity (more than I watch the EPL for sure), I think Serie A might be slightly better.

Slightly.

Nothing major, and certainly nothing we can truly put up against one another at this time, but I do think Bayern, Dortmund, Leverkusen, might be weaker this year than in years past. Whereas I do think RB, Frankfurt, Union, and Frieburg all appear better.

It would be interesting to see a like for like battle between the two leagues, but of course that won't happen.

I am pretty sure that Bayern would beat Napoli over 2 legs, if both teams were at full strength. As good as Napoli are, the players in their team on paper, have nothing on Bayern's players overall. I'd like them to meet, to prove my point, as I am convinced Bayern would win over 2 legs, I mentioned Bayern, Dortmund and RB Leipzig as the 3 standout teams, because they are the most consistent. I also said that Napoli deserved to beat Frankfurt, even if Muani was sent off early in that 2nd half. Napoli were the better team. But Frankfurt lost to Napoli, by far Italy's strongest team. Frankfurt didn't lose to Juve, Inter, Lazio or Roma. 

I don't think we can make excuses for Juve, they have been poor in Europe for a few seasons now, the investigations will have played little part in their results. They lost to Maccabi Haifa man, they are not going to live that down for years to come. PSG beat Maccabi Haifa 7-2 and 3-1(10-3 on aggregate) in the same group. You know, the same PSG team that are on the way to being knocked out and outplayed by Bayern Munich. 

Union Berlin and Freiburg are also having strong seasons in Germany and in the Europa League, but I didn't mention them, because they have only recently started to play very well. Bayern, Dortmund and RB Leipzig have been consistently good for several years, well Bayern always have.

I think we have to go by the results of the teams in Europe when comparing and the results are overall quite strongly in favour of the German teams. That has to mean something.

[Michael]

30 minutes ago, Eco said:

Time out.

You think the Bundesliga is ahead of La Liga?

You speak about looking at facts and not feelings, yet state this.

Sevilla, a team in the relegation battle in Spain, beat Frankfurt in the Group Stages..but do I think Frankfurt are worse than Sevilla? No.

I watch the games and make my own determinations. Sure I use head-to-head, but I also count the situations as well. Like today, I would have expected Real to not beat Liverpool so bad because of their upcoming schedule, but alas they did.

My point is, I just take it all in and use my best judgement when I was talking about the Serie A being slightly stronger than the Bundesliga.

If you think the Bundesliga is better than La Liga though, then you are using just points that suit your outcome, and even that is a stretch, as La Liga is having a down year this year with Sevilla and Valencia down near the bottom, but still I think it's a much stronger league that Bundesliga.

It's a silly argument really, as it can never be confirmed or denied with true facts. But if I had to rank my top 5 leagues, I'd go

1. EPL
2. La Liga

3a. Serie A
3b. Bundesliga

5. Ligue 1

What are you talking about? Seville were not even in Frankfurt's group in this season's Champions League.So Seville didn't beat Frankfurt in this season's Champions League, that's simply not true. Seville were in Dortmund's group and Dortmund battered Seville 4-1. Yes, I state what I stated because it is based on facts. The German sides have almost all done better than the Spanish sides in this season's Champions League. This can't be ignored. While as I said, even RB Leipzig, beat Spain's best team Real Madrid 3-2. 

I expected Real Madrid to beat Liverpool and I am not surprised at all that they beat them by this margin. The Champions League is the elite competition in Europe and most of the time, clubs don't care about upcoming matches when in comes to the CL, they will put their best possible team out and try and get their best possible result. Clubs may hold back in the Carabao Cup, if they have a tough schedule coming up, but definitely not in the Champions League. It's biggest competition out there.

Of course one must use their judgement as well, but in the Champions League, teams always try their best and play their best possible starting 11. I mean injuries are a factor to also consider if you want to be pedantic about things, but this then applies to all teams. In any case, the strongest teams, usually have the strongest squads. The German teams have done better than the Spanish teams in this season CL, Europe's elite competition, this is just a fact. 

The top 3 leagues for me are

1- EPL

2- Bundesliga

3- La Liga

I also don't know how you can confidently claim that the Spanish clubs are overall better than the German clubs, when the results in the CL prove that not to be the case. It's not 1 result, it's several results. That has to count for something.

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Tommy said:

What's funny is that he's been at Wolfsburg years ago, and didn't do shit. 

What's funny is that not only did Osimhen flop in Germany, but so did Ademola Lookman. Lookman flopped for years in the Bundesliga, yet both Osimhen and Lookman are among the top 3 scorers in Serie A. Well, Osimhen is the leading scorer in Serie A this season. For the record, I think Osimhen is a good player, but Lookman is bang average. Even another Bundesliga flop, Immobile, is 5th leading scorer in Serie A. He has also been consistently among the leading scorers in Serie A since he left the Bundesliga. In fact, Immobile was the leading scorer in Serie A last season.

[Eco]

10 hours ago, Michael said:

What's funny is that not only did Osimhen flop in Germany, but so did Ademola Lookman. Lookman flopped for years in the Bundesliga, yet both Osimhen and Lookman are among the top 3 scorers in Serie A. Well, Osimhen is the leading scorer in Serie A this season. For the record, I think Osimhen is a good player, but Lookman is bang average. Even another Bundesliga flop, Immobile, is 5th leading scorer in Serie A. He has also been consistently among the leading scorers in Serie A since he left the Bundesliga. In fact, Immobile was the leading scorer in Serie A last season.

I still think flop is too harsh of a wording for Osimhen who just played 14 games. Again, it could be he didn't feel comfortable in the country, the team, the environment, or that he had personal things going on that played into it.

Besides, there are players who did very well in the Bundesliga, left, and never achieved the same success, so don't think it's just something magical about the Bundesliga.

[Eco]

11 hours ago, Michael said:

What are you talking about? Seville were not even in Frankfurt's group in this season's Champions League.So Seville didn't beat Frankfurt in this season's Champions League, that's simply not true. Seville were in Dortmund's group and Dortmund battered Seville 4-1. Yes, I state what I stated because it is based on facts. The German sides have almost all done better than the Spanish sides in this season's Champions League. This can't be ignored. While as I said, even RB Leipzig, beat Spain's best team Real Madrid 3-2. 

I expected Real Madrid to beat Liverpool and I am not surprised at all that they beat them by this margin. The Champions League is the elite competition in Europe and most of the time, clubs don't care about upcoming matches when in comes to the CL, they will put their best possible team out and try and get their best possible result. Clubs may hold back in the Carabao Cup, if they have a tough schedule coming up, but definitely not in the Champions League. It's biggest competition out there.

Of course one must use their judgement as well, but in the Champions League, teams always try their best and play their best possible starting 11. I mean injuries are a factor to also consider if you want to be pedantic about things, but this then applies to all teams. In any case, the strongest teams, usually have the strongest squads. The German teams have done better than the Spanish teams in this season CL, Europe's elite competition, this is just a fact. 

The top 3 leagues for me are

1- EPL

2- Bundesliga

3- La Liga

I also don't know how you can confidently claim that the Spanish clubs are overall better than the German clubs, when the results in the CL prove that not to be the case. It's not 1 result, it's several results. That has to count for something.

Apologies, I was having this conversation while getting my daughter ready for bed, and so I mixed up the details on Sevilla. I have no idea what I was thinking honestly. 

I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this. You have brought up Frankfurt winning the Europa League as proof of Bundesliga, but never once mentioned the fact that Real Madrid one the Champions League, and Spain had 2 teams in the Semi-Finals of the CL (RM and Villarreal), with the latter defeated Bayern Munich. Again, this is something that we can just go around in circles in without going anywhere.

[Michael]

Just now, Eco said:

Apologies, I was having this conversation while getting my daughter ready for bed, and so I mixed up the details on Sevilla. I have no idea what I was thinking honestly. 

I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this. You have brought up Frankfurt winning the Europa League as proof of Bundesliga, but never once mentioned the fact that Real Madrid one the Champions League, and Spain had 2 teams in the Semi-Finals of the CL (RM and Villarreal), with the latter defeated Bayern Munich. Again, this is something that we can just go around in circles in without going anywhere.

I understand mate.

I mentioned Frankfurt winning the Europa League last season and RB Leipzig reaching the semi-finals as just one example. I particularly pointed out what we have seen unfold in this season's Champions League, where Leverkusen got the better of Atletico Madrid(4-2 aggregate), Dortmund got the better of Seville(5-2 aggregate) and where Bayern embarrassed Spanish La Liga leaders Barcelona(5-0 on aggregate). While RB Leipzig beat what I believe to be Spain's strongest team Real Madrid 3-2. I take your point about Villareal, but I have shown you a number of consistent results, where German clubs are easily getting the better of their Spanish opponents.

German clubs generally do very well in Europe. I haven't even mentioned the likes of Freiburg or Union Berlin, because these clubs don't have the biggest budgets and they've only really started to play very well this season. But they are doing well in both Germany and in Europe. Union Berlin are on the verge of knocking out top Dutch side Ajax Amsterdam out of the Europa League. They drew 0-0 in the 1st leg in Amsterdam, where Union had numerous dangerous chances to win the match and Ajax didn't even manage a single shot on target.

I know Ajax aren't a Spanish side, but it's just another example of how well German clubs generally do in Europe. I think the numerous impressive results of most of the German teams in Europe this season, cannot be ignored. Spanish clubs have not done as well at all. I mean just look at Bayern ripping Barcelona to pieces in the Champions League, where Barcelona are leading the La Liga table. Bayern have found much harder opposition in the Bundesliga this season.