Liverpool Discussion

[Rick]

Whether Klopp has loyalty to Origi or not doesn’t change the fact that, bar two Big performances, Origi has done very very little in a Liverpool shirt to really justify being the first choice back up to our front three. I am allowed my own judgement on a player. But I guess you’re going to make out Origi is something he isn’t to suit your argument? 

[LFCMadLad]

8 minutes ago, Rick said:

Whether Klopp has loyalty to Origi or not doesn’t change the fact that, bar two Big performances, Origi has done very very little in a Liverpool shirt to really justify being the first choice back up to our front three. I am allowed my own judgement on a player. But I guess you’re going to make out Origi is something he isn’t to suit your argument? 

Not at all, thats your opinion. If Origi is your only worry then thats fine. Just dont get too angry if we don't go out and spend shitloads on a new striker when Origi and Brewster are still here. 

[Stan]

11 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Not at all, thats your opinion. If Origi is your only worry then thats fine. Just dont get too angry if we don't go out and spend shitloads on a new striker when Origi and Brewster are still here. 

This is true, but I feel like if you don't put up a title challenge or compete like last season, then any Liverpool fan (Not just the dickheads ) who wanted to recruit with quality has a right to question the club's recruitment (or lack of) for not doing so... 

Like @RandoEFC said, there could be a few 'I told you so's' at some point during the season!

[LFCMike]

57 minutes ago, Rick said:

Whether Klopp has loyalty to Origi or not doesn’t change the fact that, bar two Big performances, Origi has done very very little in a Liverpool shirt to really justify being the first choice back up to our front three. I am allowed my own judgement on a player. But I guess you’re going to make out Origi is something he isn’t to suit your argument? 

I think people do under sell Origi's contributions. This being a prime example. I mean, stepping up in a European Cup semi final to score two goals when two of your front three are out injured is pretty big like. But it's just brushed off as if it doesn't mean much. I'm trying to think of times where two of the front three have been out of the starting line up in league and European games. I can only think of Barca 18/19 and Everton last season. Origi scored four goals in those two games. Everyone on here was fuming with that line up for the Everton game too! He does seem to take more of a back seat when he plays with two of the others. Two of the three are very rarely out at the same time and as long as Liverpool are winning the games though it's not really an issue. 

The concerns if he had to start multiple games in a row are understandable but then he never gets the chance to even start back to back games so we just don't know if he would be good enough over those games. The last time he was starting regularly for Liverpool was 15/16 and 16/17 and he did go on a bit of a scoring run both times if I remember rightly.

He's still only 25 too. Maybe Klopp sees something that is worth working with to keep him around at least for the time being. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

Willy Caballero is a shit gk, but everything else @RandoEFC said, I agree with

[LFCMadLad]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

This is true, but I feel like if you don't put up a title challenge or compete like last season, then any Liverpool fan (Not just the dickheads ) who wanted to recruit with quality has a right to question the club's recruitment (or lack of) for not doing so... 

Like @RandoEFC said, there could be a few 'I told you so's' at some point during the season!

Same was said at the beginning of last season. Then there is the financial aspect which keeps on been brought up but totally ignored.

Edited September 14, 2020 by LFCMadLad

[Stan]

18 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

Same was said at the beginning of last season. Then there is the financial aspect which keeps on been brought up but totally ignored.

Not ignored. No-one is saying to spend obscene amounts of money. Like mentioned above (that's been ignored?), you don't need to spend ridiculous amounts and no-one is expecting that? 

Also, you've just won the league and Champions League, and are one of the biggest clubs in the world. COVID has had an affect on literally every single club but let's not act like Liverpool are skint and can't afford anything.

[Cicero]

Fernan Torres at £20.8 million is a great example of a attacking player that could come and provide much needed depth. 

[LFCMadLad]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

Not ignored. No-one is saying to spend obscene amounts of money. Like mentioned above (that's been ignored?), you don't need to spend ridiculous amounts and no-one is expecting that? 

Also, you've just won the league and Champions League, and are one of the biggest clubs in the world. COVID has had an affect on literally every single club but let's not act like Liverpool are skint and can't afford anything.

As I said, financial aspects totally ignored. Stadium expansion, upcoming Stadium expansion, new/merged training facilities, most of the first 11 given new contracts....

Actual figures have been posted on here litterally explaining why money isn't readily available but again.. its ignored. 

Also, if we arent expecting obscene amounts spent on players, what are we expecting? Does anyone actually think we can replace players currently on our bench with cheap buys? No chance. Most of the players on our bench would walk into most Premier league sides. 

Matip, Fabinho, Ox, Milner, Tsimikas, Origi, Minamino etc all start for most clubs. Then we have Jones and Brewster pushing for a few games. 

I honestly don't know what some people expect?

[LFCMadLad]

3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Fernan Torres at £20.8 million is a great example of a attacking player that could come and provide much needed depth. 

He is also a player that wouldn't get into our team and wouldn't join without being paid stupid money which we simply don't pay for squad players. Hes also not a great example because he has played literally no minutes in this league. For all we know he could end up being an absolute flop. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by LFCMadLad

[The Artful Dodger]

I think you’re giving your owners too much credit there. You CAN spend but ultimately that would mean less profit for your owners. They are here to make money for themselves, nothing else. You’ve got arguably the best manager in the world and he will win things for you, they won’t spend unless they think it’s essential to increase revenue. That is all they care about...making money. You’re facing opponents who literally don’t care about that; they have so much it doesn’t matter. 

This is the erosion of football’s soul caused by Chelsea and Man City. They are literal cancers on our game. Just like their small time fans who know nothing about the history of the clubs they support. Liverpool should be better than that, they are a far bigger club and part of the pantheon of football history which neither of those clubs can ever hope to reach.

Edited September 14, 2020 by The Artful Dodger

[Stan]

7 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

As I said, financial aspects totally ignored. Stadium expansion, upcoming Stadium expansion, new/merged training facilities, most of the first 11 given new contracts....

Actual figures have been posted on here litterally explaining why money isn't readily available but again.. its ignored. 

Also, if we arent expecting obscene amounts spent on players, what are we expecting? Does anyone actually think we can replace players currently on our bench with cheap buys? No chance. Most of the players on our bench would walk into most Premier league sides. 

Matip, Fabinho, Ox, Milner, Tsimikas, Origi, Minamino etc all start for most clubs. Then we have Jones and Brewster pushing for a few games. 

I honestly don't know what some people expect?

 

6 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

He is also a player that wouldn't get into our team and wouldn't join without being paid stupid money which we simply don't pay for squad players. Hes also not a great example because he has played literally no minutes in this league. For all we know he could end up being an absolute flop. 

I think you overestimate those kinds of players. Brewster might go out on loan, right? Matip always injured (how would he start for most clubs?). Milner literally in the final years of his career. Ox buddies up with Matip in the physio room too regularly. Relying on those for depth in case the regular starting XI get injured? Risky. 

That leaves Fabinho, Tsimikas, Origi, Minamino, Jones and some youngsters. 

@Cicero brought up a perfect example of spending small amount to beef up the squad. I doubt he's on a lot at Man City even if they do spend obscene amounts generally.

Why would you think he doesn't get in to your team? It's about depth of the squad, no? Not everyone you sign has to be a starting player?

If you don't know what some people expect then you can't have been reading any of our posts . Just to clarify, no-one is expecting you to break the bank and/or bankrupt the club. It really isn't unreasonable to spend small amounts on good players that could fit in to your team and that Klopp would get to sync in to the current squad. 

There are bargains out there. Good deals for players that can work in a squad. Wijnaldum was only £15m (??) and look how good he has turned out to be. Same with Robertson. 

[Cicero]

14 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

He is also a player that wouldn't get into our team and wouldn't join without being paid stupid money which we simply don't pay for squad players. Hes also not a great example because he has played literally no minutes in this league. For all we know he could end up being an absolute flop. 

Premier league proven is the biggest horse shit 

I think if that is the case, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to see you lot back down to 8th-6th in the coming years when your starting XI age. Not unless your owners want to compete with the likes of us, City, and United. It's the way football is moving forward, not unless you expect Klopp to work miracles and find hidden gems at lower costs season after season. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Cicero

[The Artful Dodger]

3 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Premier league proven is the biggest horse shit 

I think if that is the case, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to see you lot back down to 8th-6th in the coming years when your starting XI age. Not unless your owners want to compete with the likes of us, City, and United. It's the way football is moving forward, not unless you expect Klopp to work miracles and find hidden gems at lower costs season after season. 

Can tell you’re American. Spend loads of money!!!

Chelsea fans are just bitter because all their success is completely morally bankrupt and nobody cares about it. Liverpool proved that even giant clubs can win fair and square.

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Can tell you’re American. Spend loads of money!!!

Chelsea fans are just bitter because all their success is completely morally bankrupt and nobody cares about it. Liverpool proved that even giant clubs can win fair and square.

Thank you for sharing your diary.

You obviously care about it given you can't go 4 weeks without mentioning it in some fashion. 

 

 

 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Lampard getting shirty about Klopp in his interview. What bit of what Klopp said was wrong? Chelsea are backed by an oligarch ffs. Public school boy tit.

[Rick]

Nobody is saying that Klopp hasn’t worked wonders with what he has been given in relation to the spend of other clubs. But he hasn’t spent really anything in 4 windows. In that time we have sold players for profit. Don’t tell me that we are penniless cause it’s bollocks. It comes down to the owners choosing not to invest into the club. It’s worked for them up to this point, but like I’ve said numerous times, I think this squad has hit its peak and without some freshening up it’s only going to fall behind. It’s not sustainable. 
 

 

[Cicero]

10 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Lampard getting shirty about Klopp in his interview. What bit of what Klopp said was wrong? Chelsea are backed by an oligarch ffs. Public school boy tit.

Shirty 

Talk about making something out of nothing. He's virtually praised Klopp and how they've operated as a club. The only thing he mentions is spending, and how in order to compete, you need to spend. Blimey,  must be the American in me talking. 

Ignoring how the funds were generated, Liverpool broke the record for a GK and CB at the time. It's the very point I was making how I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool fall out of the top 4 in the coming years if they don't continue to invest as compared to their rivals. Not unless they expect Klopp to work miracles every season with transfers or expect more Coutinho situations.

 Even Arsenal have spent as much as us before this summer. 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Cicero

[LFCMadLad]

17 minutes ago, Rick said:

Nobody is saying that Klopp hasn’t worked wonders with what he has been given in relation to the spend of other clubs. But he hasn’t spent really anything in 4 windows. In that time we have sold players for profit. Don’t tell me that we are penniless cause it’s bollocks. It comes down to the owners choosing not to invest into the club. It’s worked for them up to this point, but like I’ve said numerous times, I think this squad has hit its peak and without some freshening up it’s only going to fall behind. It’s not sustainable. 
 

 

You said exactly the same last season. And how have they not invested into the club? Did you see the state of the club when they took over?

Fuck me.

Edited September 14, 2020 by LFCMadLad

[The Artful Dodger]

22 minutes ago, Cicero said:

Shirty 

Talk about making something out of nothing. He's virtually praised Klopp and how they've operated as a club. The only thing he mentions is spending, and how in order to compete, you need to spend. Blimey,  must be the American in me talking. 

Ignoring how the funds were generated, Liverpool broke the record for a GK and CB at the time. It's the very point I was making how I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool fall out of the top 4 in the coming years if they don't continue to invest as compared to their rivals. Not unless they expect Klopp to work miracles every season with transfers or expect more Coutinho situations.

 Even Arsenal have spent as much as us before this summer. 

Ignoring how funds are generated is the key phrase.

Chelsea are the public school kid (much like your Tory voting cunt of a manager) who gets everything on a platter.

Liverpool have been the petit bourgeois type, have to buy and sell accordingly.

Leicester were the street kid urchin battering the public school kids. Which is my dream most nights.

Edited September 14, 2020 by The Artful Dodger

[Rick]

13 minutes ago, LFCMadLad said:

You said exactly the same last season. And how have they not invested into the club? Did you see the state of the club when they took over?

Fuck me.

Okay, replace ‘club’ with ‘team’. 

[Cicero]

7 minutes ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Ignoring how funds are generated is the key phrase.

Chelsea are the public school kid (much like your Tory voting cunt of a manager) who gets everything on a platter.

Liverpool have been the petit bourgeois type, have to buy and sell accordingly.

Leicester were the street kid urchin battering the public school kids. Which is my dream most nights.

Nice. 

Anyway, what exactly did Lampard say was wrong or how did you find his response bad tempered? 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Cicero

[The Artful Dodger]

1 hour ago, Cicero said:

Nice. 

Anyway, what exactly did Lampard say was wrong or how did you find his response bad tempered? 

There’s not really much objectionable reading back. I just hate people who went to private school. 

[LFCMike]

2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I think you’re giving your owners too much credit there. You CAN spend but ultimately that would mean less profit for your owners. They are here to make money for themselves, nothing else. You’ve got arguably the best manager in the world and he will win things for you, they won’t spend unless they think it’s essential to increase revenue. That is all they care about...making money. You’re facing opponents who literally don’t care about that; they have so much it doesn’t matter. 

This is the erosion of football’s soul caused by Chelsea and Man City. They are literal cancers on our game. Just like their small time fans who know nothing about the history of the clubs they support. Liverpool should be better than that, they are a far bigger club and part of the pantheon of football history which neither of those clubs can ever hope to reach.

They don't take profits out of the club. The profit will come when they sell. And it will be huge given how cheap they got it.

2 hours ago, Rick said:

Nobody is saying that Klopp hasn’t worked wonders with what he has been given in relation to the spend of other clubs. But he hasn’t spent really anything in 4 windows. In that time we have sold players for profit. Don’t tell me that we are penniless cause it’s bollocks. It comes down to the owners choosing not to invest into the club. It’s worked for them up to this point, but like I’ve said numerous times, I think this squad has hit its peak and without some freshening up it’s only going to fall behind. It’s not sustainable. 
 

 

It's just not true that they haven't invested though. They took on the debt left by Hicks and Gillett. They've invested in the stadium and training facilities. They want the club to be self sufficient when it comes to investment in the playing side. I've absolutely no issue with that. I've said previously that when we had Hicks and Gillett all I wanted was the club to be able to spend the money it makes. That is now happening.

[Dr. Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Cicero said:

Shirty 

Talk about making something out of nothing. He's virtually praised Klopp and how they've operated as a club. The only thing he mentions is spending, and how in order to compete, you need to spend. Blimey,  must be the American in me talking. 

Ignoring how the funds were generated, Liverpool broke the record for a GK and CB at the time. It's the very point I was making how I wouldn't be surprised to see Liverpool fall out of the top 4 in the coming years if they don't continue to invest as compared to their rivals. Not unless they expect Klopp to work miracles every season with transfers or expect more Coutinho situations.

 Even Arsenal have spent as much as us before this summer. 

The thing is Lampard seemed to get a bit offended at what Klopp said... but I think it was more of the reporter looking to cause offense with the way he worded what Klopp had said. Because if you look at what Klopp's said, he's said there's a pandemic and not all clubs can be spending like Chelsea can right now.

Yeah that doesn't account for the fact that Chelsea didn't spend for a year because of their transfer ban - but he's not wrong, Chelsea are spending more than most clubs do during this pandemic and most clubs won't be coming anywhere close to that kind of spending.

You also have to remember those "Coutinho situations" are essentially what allowed us to make those record signings - so I wouldn't necessarily expect us to always make signings like that.