Unpopular Football Opinions

[Guest]

Just now, Eco said:

This is more ignorant and incorrect than anything. 

If a country has a stadium that ranks in the top 5 in the WORLD for average attendance for domestic league football, then obviously parts of the country cares. 

Nah I disagree. Average attendance in the MLS is misleading. I've been a few MLS games and the people in the grounds don't have a fucking clue what they are watching. I remember when LAFC came here nobody knew who Vela was, even though he had been a figure in Europe for the longest time.

I'm under the impression that people just support their city, rather than the sport itself. Just ask @Spike, who has told me the same thing.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Nah I disagree. Average attendance in the MLS is misleading. I've been a few MLS games and the people in the grounds don't have a fucking clue what they are watching. I remember when LAFC came here nobody knew who Vela was, even though he had been a figure in Europe for the longest time.

I'm under the impression that people just support their city, rather than the sport itself. Just ask @Spike, who has told me the same thing.

Where's 'here'? Canada?

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Grizzly21 said:

Nah I disagree. Average attendance in the MLS is misleading. I've been a few MLS games and the people in the grounds don't have a fucking clue what they are watching. I remember when LAFC came here nobody knew who Vela was, even though he had been a figure in Europe for the longest time.

I'm under the impression that people just support their city, rather than the sport itself. Just ask @Spike, who has told me the same thing.

I didn't say anything about average attendance of the league. I'm speaking of the individual teams that have a high average attendance. And whether you perceive them to 'have a clue', doesn't mean shit. They are there watching the sport, so obviously they care otherwise they'd find something better to do with their time and money. 

There are 2 main factions of soccer fans here. Those are support their city team, and those that support their Euro team (and really a 3rd category for those that support both). I'm not sure what you mean by 'supporting the city rather than the sport itself". That makes zero sense as if you support the first, then you are also supporting the second. 

[Guest]

Just now, Stan said:

Where's 'here'? Canada?

Yep, but the mentality (at least in Ontario) is very similar if not almost identical to the USA. 

In the USA and where I live in Canada, people are sports enthusiasts and are willing to fill up. They have a city mentality and will support their team even if they don't care about the sport. I am not guilty of this, but I almost was. I so nearly went to see the Toronto Blue Jays in the playoffs, and I don't give a shit about baseball.

When I've went to MLS games, they are so clueless on what they are watching that it just makes me think they are really just supporting the city. I don't know if the same applies to Vancouver or Montreal because those are very different parts of Canada, but here in Toronto it's very comparable.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Eco said:

I didn't say anything about average attendance of the league. I'm speaking of the individual teams that have a high average attendance. And whether you perceive them to 'have a clue', doesn't mean shit. They are there watching the sport, so obviously they care otherwise they'd find something better to do with their time and money. 

There are 2 main factions of soccer fans here. Those are support their city team, and those that support their Euro team (and really a 3rd category for those that support both). I'm not sure what you mean by 'supporting the city rather than the sport itself". That makes zero sense as if you support the first, then you are also supporting the second. 

Well, for your first paragraph, fundamentally it does. Not only is the MLS cheaper than most other leagues in the USA and Canada, but also I firmly believe in that city mentality that the USA and southern Canada has. I've complained about this in regards to the CanMNT. Most people would rather watch Toronto FC for example. There was even a poll that showed this.

I agree on the 2 soccer fan factions, it's the same up here. However, when I see high attendances here I always think of my experience at the game and that is the people don't know what they are watching because nobody knows who's on the pitch, they only know the superstars like Ibrahimovic, etc. 

I've met very few actual fans here (all foreign, basically none that are pure Canadian) and I know many people in the USA who know almost no football fans. I thank Twitter for my footy friends up here because otherwise I would have to get very lucky to meet people who actually like the sport. Even @Spike has preached about the same thing.

Anyways, my post was how some British people overestimate how popular it ACTUALLY is in the USA. It's still the 5th sport and that for me, even within a big population, doesn't tell me anything.

[Guest]

No offence @Grizzly21 but @Eco lives in America so I expect he knows more 

[Guest]

Just now, Gunnersauraus said:

No offence @Grizzly21 but @Eco lives in America so I expect he knows more 

So does @Spike and he told me similar things to what I just said.

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Yep, but the mentality (at least in Ontario) is very similar if not almost identical to the USA. 

In the USA and where I live in Canada, people are sports enthusiasts and are willing to fill up. They have a city mentality and will support their team even if they don't care about the sport. I am not guilty of this, but I almost was. I so nearly went to see the Toronto Blue Jays in the playoffs, and I don't give a shit about baseball.

When I've went to MLS games, they are so clueless on what they are watching that it just makes me think they are really just supporting the city. I don't know if the same applies to Vancouver or Montreal because those are very different parts of Canada, but here in Toronto it's very comparable.

 

But if they're willing to support their city i.e. paying to go watch football, then does that not mean it is popular, when linked in with high attendances at certain grounds?

You'd think that if they weren't interested in football at all, they wouldn't spend their money on a football match - @Eco what are prices like for a game/season ticket? It must seem popular enough for them to go and watch week in, week out? 

It seems like a massive sweeping generalisation to say that a sport in a country isn't popular. A global and well-known sport, at that.

Based on these figures from 2017/18, it was far more popular than NBA and NHL, two sports you'd associate with being very popular in USA/Canada:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

TV figures have also gone up, apparently, from 20m in 2013 to 30m in 2015. 

How do you know that anyone who attends a game (several thousands in each ground?), is only willing to 'support their city' and 'doesn't care about the sport'?

 

Look at the total attendances, as well. Granted it can be influenced by stadium expansions but not in all cases - the popularity and publicity of the sport has helped no doubt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance#Season_averages

It's increased for the last 15 years consecutively. If a sport isn't popular, it surely doesn't increase that much in a fairly short space of time? 

[Eco]

I'm not saying it's on par with the MLB, NBA, or NFL...

But this statement - 

Quote

Football/Soccer is not popular in the USA, regardless of what people will have you believe.

Is absolute bullshit. 

[Guest]

Just now, Grizzly21 said:

So does @Spike and he told me similar things to what I just said.

Well then the correct answer is for you to say you don't know. If two different people tell me something I would say I don't know not go and say something is true if I don't have enough experience of it. 

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

But if they're willing to support their city i.e. paying to go watch football, then does that not mean it is popular, when linked in with high attendances at certain grounds?

You'd think that if they weren't interested in football at all, they wouldn't spend their money on a football match - @Eco what are prices like for a game/season ticket? It must seem popular enough for them to go and watch week in, week out? 

It seems like a massive sweeping generalisation to say that a sport in a country isn't popular. A global and well-known sport, at that.

Based on these figures from 2017/18, it was far more popular than NBA and NHL, two sports you'd associate with being very popular in USA/Canada:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

TV figures have also gone up, apparently, from 20m in 2013 to 30m in 2015. 

How do you know that anyone who attends a game (several thousands in each ground?), is only willing to 'support their city' and 'doesn't care about the sport'?

 

Look at the total attendances, as well. Granted it can be influenced by stadium expansions but not in all cases - the popularity and publicity of the sport has helped no doubt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance#Season_averages

It's increased for the last 15 years consecutively. If a sport isn't popular, it surely doesn't increase that much in a fairly short space of time? 

I just upgraded my ST's. 

But I used to sit in the Supporter's Section, and they were $500/year per ticket. 

I moved out of the supporter section as their were too many flags, and now sit about where the 35 yard line is in football, and they cost me $800/ticket per year. I have two tickets for I'm paying $1,600 for my two tickets. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Stan said:

But if they're willing to support their city i.e. paying to go watch football, then does that not mean it is popular, when linked in with high attendances at certain grounds?

You'd think that if they weren't interested in football at all, they wouldn't spend their money on a football match - @Eco what are prices like for a game/season ticket? It must seem popular enough for them to go and watch week in, week out? 

It seems like a massive sweeping generalisation to say that a sport in a country isn't popular. A global and well-known sport, at that.

Based on these figures from 2017/18, it was far more popular than NBA and NHL, two sports you'd associate with being very popular in USA/Canada:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/207458/per-game-attendance-of-major-us-sports-leagues/

TV figures have also gone up, apparently, from 20m in 2013 to 30m in 2015. 

How do you know that anyone who attends a game (several thousands in each ground?), is only willing to 'support their city' and 'doesn't care about the sport'?

 

Look at the total attendances, as well. Granted it can be influenced by stadium expansions but not in all cases - the popularity and publicity of the sport has helped no doubt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer_attendance#Season_averages

It's increased for the last 15 years consecutively. If a sport isn't popular, it surely doesn't increase that much in a fairly short space of time? 

Is it growing? Absolutely, but some people here have tried to convince me it's become a powerhouse sport in the country and that just isn't true at all. Attendances can honestly be misleading.

When I was in Peru, 1/3 people was a football fan, a country that struggles to get more than 10K attendances per team regularly in their league, where as in Canada and in the USA, I'd say about 1/15 people I meet like the sport. It's not popular here mate, it's growing and I expect it to keep growing but it's still far below the other sports I'm afraid.

It also depends on the state though. The USA is probably the least centralized country in the world.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Eco said:

I'm not saying it's on par with the MLB, NBA, or NFL...

But this statement - 

Is absolute bullshit. 

Well, that statement was a response to some people here who have told me the sport is huge over here, as well as on other British football forums I've been on.

It has a fanbase no doubt but when you compare it to other countries and the other sports in the USA, it's not popular.

That said, I do think it's bigger than the MLB in Canada nowadays. I don't think I've met a baseball fan in my 13 years total living here.

[Eco]

2 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Is it growing? Absolutely, but some people here have tried to convince me it's become a powerhouse sport in the country and that just isn't true at all. Attendances can honestly be misleading.

When I was in Peru, 1/3 people was a football fan, a country that struggles to get more than 10K attendances per team regularly in their league, where as in Canada and in the USA, I'd say about 1/15 people I meet like the sport. It's not popular here mate, it's growing and I expect it to keep growing but it's still far below the other sports I'm afraid.

It also depends on the state though. The USA is probably the least centralized country in the world.

Who here has mentioned that soccer and the MLS are a powerhouse?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Gunnersauraus said:

Well then the correct answer is for you to say you don't know. If two different people tell me something I would say I don't know not go and say something is true if I don't have enough experience of it. 

When I say Peru is a good team, you try to argue against it. 

And I do know on this. Granted, some of these argument come across as generalization, but I know people in the USA (like Spike) who have told me similar and given I live in the most USA centric part of Canada, things are similar here than to there.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Is it growing? Absolutely, but some people here have tried to convince me it's become a powerhouse sport in the country and that just isn't true at all. Attendances can honestly be misleading.

 

Ah so this is the issue then.

Not being a powerhouse and not being popular is totally different. They're 2 totally different statements.

You've translated one for the other. It's fine for people to tell you that it's become a powerhouse sport and it's equally fine for you to tell them their wrong and dispute it.

But then you've come on here and said 'football/soccer is not popular in the USA'.

Which is not true. It is popular. And it is growing (so will become more popular given recent trends?). 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Eco said:

Who here has mentioned that soccer and the MLS are a powerhouse?

Lucas and Stan in the "why football failed" thread. And I've also seen it on other British football forums.

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Grizzly21 said:

Lucas and Stan in the "why football failed" thread. And I've also seen it on other British football forums.

So you are saying that @Stan and @Lucas both said that the MLS, as well as football/soccer in America is a powerhouse? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Stan said:

Ah so this is the issue then.

Not being a powerhouse and not being popular is totally different. They're 2 totally different statements.

You've translated one for the other. It's fine for people to tell you that it's become a powerhouse sport and it's equally fine for you to tell them their wrong and dispute it.

But then you've come on here and said 'football/soccer is not popular in the USA'.

 Which is not true. It is popular. And it is growing (so will become more popular given recent trends?). 

Yeah, it's what I'm saying. It has a fanbase, but when you put it into comparison it's far from being a big sport over here.

Kind of like Anime. It's popular in west because it has a fanbase and even has fan fiction and events, but it's nowhere near big enough to say it is something you'll find in most people.

I'm seen some Brits claim that football is "huge over here" because of MLS attendances and whatnot. I don't remember if you said that specifically Stan but I have seen it on other forums.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Eco said:

So you are saying that @Stan and @Lucas both said that the MLS, as well as football/soccer in America is a powerhouse? 

I don't know if they meant it like that, but they ridiculed me for saying football formerly failed in the USA, which is true and to an extent, still is as rednecks aren't fans of the sport for the most part.

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Grizzly21 said:

I don't know if they meant it like that, but they ridiculed me for saying football formerly failed in the USA, which is true and to an extent, still is as rednecks aren't fans of the sport for the most part.

What the absolute hell are you talking about? 

I live in the South....the home of said 'rednecks', yet we are applauded overseas for our fan base. We got the South American player of the year to choose us over going to Europe. 

'Rednecks' aren't a fan of the sport....you need to learn more about topics before spouting absolute nonsense. Here, watch this video of us 'rednecks'. 

 

[Guest]

Just now, Eco said:

What the absolute hell are you talking about? 

I live in the South....the home of said 'rednecks', yet we are applauded overseas for our fan base. We got the South American player of the year to choose us over going to Europe. 

'Rednecks' aren't a fan of the sport....you need to learn more about topics before spouting absolute nonsense. Here, watch this video of us 'rednecks'. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

I don't know if they meant it like that, but they ridiculed me for saying football formerly failed in the USA, which is true and to an extent, still is as rednecks aren't fans of the sport for the most part.

Since it applies to Canada and for the longest time, Australia, I assumed USA would be similar. Again though, attendances can be misleading as I showed in a comparison above.

[Eco]

1 minute ago, Grizzly21 said:

 

Since it applies to Canada and for the longest time, Australia, I assumed USA would be similar. Again though, attendances can be misleading as I showed in a comparison above.

You are still clueless. Highlight 'for the most part' all you want, but you just called out a group of people 'rednecks' which is referred to Americans in the Southeast, which just happens to the be area where the largest fanbase in the MLS is located. 

You are full of contradictions and inaccurate information, that it gives me nothing but a mild headache and worn out keyboard. 

It's your opinoin, which luckily we are all allowed to have, but you've said nothing but absolute crap, basing it on what two people in England said, an Australian living in the U.S, and that on Twitter. 

[Stan]

17 minutes ago, Grizzly21 said:

Lucas and Stan in the "why football failed" thread. And I've also seen it on other British football forums.

Well we didn't say that, did we?

@Lucas said:

Quote

 

Laughable and quite ignorant to say Football has failed in America. If anything, it's very much on the rise.

MLS is growing all the time. David Beckham is starting his own franchise in Miami soon which has created more interest. Top players are choosing to finish their careers there so the fans are seeing the likes of Rooney, Ibrahimovic, Kaka, Pirlo, David Villa etc which boosts popularity and profile.

The Women's World Cup finals in 2015 had tremendous viewing figures, so much so that statistically viewership was higher than the NBA Finals and Stanley Cup Finals.

The figures for kids aged 12 to 17 year olds playing Football is so much higher. It's doubled since 1990. There are far more Football academies available now. Kids of tomorrow are choosing Football over some of the more 'popular' US Sports.

There has been over a 40% rise in attendances in the MLS over the last 10 years. Seattle and Orlando now average consistently over 30k for home games which is a solid figure.

European Leagues are growing in the States. Not only viewing figures of leagues such as the Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, but as a result in the surge of popularity, we now see more and more pre season friendlies being staged over in the States to appease the public and letting them see the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern Munich, Man City, Liverpool etc. It's even at the point where La Liga are staging a proper league match over there because of the interest and financial bonuses.

And to top it all off, they have the 2026 World Cup over there meaning this will only generate more and more interest. 

Football in America is very, very much on the rise. Far from a failure.

 

No mention of 'powerhouse there'. Just saying it was on the rise and growing in popularity. 

Likewise my post:

Quote

 

that's not the question though, whether it has 'history'.

The case in point is 'why football has failed in...?' America in this case.

Who said it's failed? I don't think it has and I agree that it could be argued it's a laughable statement to make. Football in America is definitely on the rise. 

 

 

[Stan]

3 minutes ago, Eco said:

basing it on what two people in England said

even then that wasn't correctly quoted