Copa del Rey Final 2018: SEVILLA FC 0-5 FC BARCELONA

[SirBalon]

24 minutes ago, Blue said:

He was badly positioned, but I have no shame in admitting I was wrong about the deflections.

There’s no problem and I think I know what you were getting at which is if a keeper is well positioned he can sometimes have enough of the passage at goal covered to even manage to get contact on a deflection. That’s what I think you were getting at Although one must remember that a deflection is an action of luck and both executing player and defending element (the keeper in this case) have no idea how that deflection will go if it happens.  You can’t train anyone for deflections and they’re freak occurrences.  

[SirBalon]

16 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

Coming back to some comments up there.

Since football started in 1992() la copa del rey has seen 11 winners, while the FA cup has seen 8 winners during this time. As for the last 10 years, there have been 5 winners of the copa del rey, while 6 winners of the FA cup. Not much difference. As for the 10 years previous, it was more varied in Spain with 8 winners of the domestic cup in 10 years, none of them being Real Madrid, or the second most successful side in the competition, Athletic Bilbao.

It's a case of a brilliant generation of players and a club having a dominant decade than anything else. Especially when you consider the teams that have knocked Real Madrid out during this time in Real Union, Alcorcon, Leganes, etc. Without Barcelona's dominance, it would have been similar to the decade before in terms of winners, especially when you consider the amount of finalists during this time :- Real Madrid, Sevilla, Valencia, Getafe, Alaves, Athletic Bilbao, Atletico Madrid, etc.

To be fair, Barcelona's dominant decade has gotten in the way of Athletic in many ways as they'd have likely won a couple of them over the past 10 years after an underwhelming decade before it, where they reached no finals at all. 3 of those 5 finals that Barcelona have won over the last decade were actually against them . All 3 times, Messi was at his best while being back up by an incredible bunch of players, so what can you do? Against anyone else, they would have surely had a better chance.

Off topic in many ways, but Athletic have had a bit of a golden generation over the last 10 years after 15 years of mediocrity, although it was probably the wrong decade when you consider how brilliant Barcelona have been, the rise of Atletico(which prevented them winning the Europa league after a brilliant run), they have been unlucky in this regard. Athletic with this generation of players of the last decade, playing a decade previous would likely have won a few cups and maybe even a league.

 

 

I agree... The last 10 years (I’d even go back 15 years) has seen Athletic produce excellence and had it not been for a combination of two factors (Barça’s dominance and football becoming a marketplace only the rich can participate in) they’d have done some special things.  They’re an amazing football club when you consider their self imposed restrictions.

[Carnivore Chris]

2 hours ago, SirBalon said:

I agree... The last 10 years (I’d even go back 15 years) has seen Athletic produce excellence and had it not been for a combination of two factors (Barça’s dominance and football becoming a marketplace only the rich can participate in) they’d have done some special things.  They’re an amazing football club when you consider their restrictions.

They have done well to keep their players away from other Spanish clubs as well during this period, unfortunately for them, not English clubs and Pep Guardiola with Javi Martinez, Herrera, San Jose(who went back) and now Laporte all departing. Maybe with those players all in their squad at the same time, they could have prized away a few of the Real Sociedad players when they were younger to make their squad even stronger.

In saying this, they do have some quality young players coming through right now.

It's that clause nonsense though, as nobody has ever purchased a player during this period off Athletic without buying their clause out and they(Athletic) have never been willing to negotiate. Spanish football is its own enemy in this regard and even Barcelona have been subject to that this season with losing Neymar. The same will even happen to Atletico with Griezmann next year, he will leave for a sum that is below his worth in today's ever growing market. 100 million euros(which is about 90 in £s?) was a high fee 12 months ago but right now you would possibly fetch up to £160m. Martinez, if he leaves Real Sociedad will be for 35 million and that is laughably low now, even for a defender. The price for a defender has now sky rocketed after the recent Van Dijk deal, so these clauses then become outdated quickly. City would have paid 80 mil or so for Laporte if Athletic were able to demand it as money is nothing to them, 300 million on defenders says it all. 57 million could have been more, given the sudden change in the market. He's worth more than Van Dijk, he's younger and more talented.

Even though I've said before that I don't think Griezmann is the right fit for Barcelona currently(mainly due to the talent already available, it seems like an overkill), he's a quality player who has consistently been a stand out player in Spain for god knows how long now, considering he was quality for Real Sociedad as well and 90 million quid is not the amount he should be going for when you consider how much players are going for now. It's dangerous for Spanish football as there are only so many youth players you can bring through to replace players and only so many bargains you can find to replace them. The market has been massively inflated and to replace a player of Griezmann's quality now would probably cost more than the amount they will lose him for.

When Dortmund sold Dembele in the summer they made sure they got more than his worth, when Liverpool sold Coutinho, they again made sure they got more than his worth. Only Barcelona and Real Madrid dare try and sign big names from the Premier League and there is a reason for that:- it takes about 2 summers of nonsense and you end up paying double what the players worth should probably be. I bet there are plenty of players in England who would be tempted by some big clubs abroad like Bayern, Juventus, even Atletico in Spain, but these clubs wouldn't bother even trying to buy players from over here due to the ridiculous prices. They can just go and buy out a clause in Spain instead.

Get rid of these clauses and clubs like Atletico, Athletic, Real Sociedad and probably Valencia and Sevilla now they have balanced their books, suddenly become among the worst teams in the world to want to negotiate with. There was a period very recently where these big Spanish clubs needed to sell(and doing so helped them greatly, look at all the recent success), but this is no longer necessary and their priorities now are keeping their best players and growing.

 

[Carnivore Chris]

Oh yeah and Coutinho showed plenty in his little cameo last night. If there was one thing people criticised him for in England it was perhaps a lack of consistency, but around better and more consistent players, that can make a big difference. He could become a big player, and without needing too long to settle in.

He was linked with the club back when he had a loan spell at Espanyol(and impressed in his half season in la liga before returning to Inter, then Liverpool later), back then it was way too early and now is the perfect time to purchase him, albeit the fee being ridiculous. He's learnt a lot and developed into a top talent at Liverpool over the last few years.

 

[SirBalon]

7 hours ago, The Rebel CRS said:

They have done well to keep their players away from other Spanish clubs as well during this period, unfortunately for them, not English clubs and Pep Guardiola with Javi Martinez, Herrera, San Jose(who went back) and now Laporte all departing. Maybe with those players all in their squad at the same time, they could have prized away a few of the Real Sociedad players when they were younger to make their squad even stronger.

In saying this, they do have some quality young players coming through right now.

It's that clause nonsense though, as nobody has ever purchased a player during this period off Athletic without buying their clause out and they(Athletic) have never been willing to negotiate. Spanish football is its own enemy in this regard and even Barcelona have been subject to that this season with losing Neymar. The same will even happen to Atletico with Griezmann next year, he will leave for a sum that is below his worth in today's ever growing market. 100 million euros(which is about 90 in £s?) was a high fee 12 months ago but right now you would possibly fetch up to £160m. Martinez, if he leaves Real Sociedad will be for 35 million and that is laughably low now, even for a defender. The price for a defender has now sky rocketed after the recent Van Dijk deal, so these clauses then become outdated quickly. City would have paid 80 mil or so for Laporte if Athletic were able to demand it as money is nothing to them, 300 million on defenders says it all. 57 million could have been more, given the sudden change in the market. He's worth more than Van Dijk, he's younger and more talented.

Even though I've said before that I don't think Griezmann is the right fit for Barcelona currently(mainly due to the talent already available, it seems like an overkill), he's a quality player who has consistently been a stand out player in Spain for god knows how long now, considering he was quality for Real Sociedad as well and 90 million quid is not the amount he should be going for when you consider how much players are going for now. It's dangerous for Spanish football as there are only so many youth players you can bring through to replace players and only so many bargains you can find to replace them. The market has been massively inflated and to replace a player of Griezmann's quality now would probably cost more than the amount they will lose him for.

When Dortmund sold Dembele in the summer they made sure they got more than his worth, when Liverpool sold Coutinho, they again made sure they got more than his worth. Only Barcelona and Real Madrid dare try and sign big names from the Premier League and there is a reason for that:- it takes about 2 summers of nonsense and you end up paying double what the players worth should probably be. I bet there are plenty of players in England who would be tempted by some big clubs abroad like Bayern, Juventus, even Atletico in Spain, but these clubs wouldn't bother even trying to buy players from over here due to the ridiculous prices. They can just go and buy out a clause in Spain instead.

Get rid of these clauses and clubs like Atletico, Athletic, Real Sociedad and probably Valencia and Sevilla now they have balanced their books, suddenly become among the worst teams in the world to want to negotiate with. There was a period very recently where these big Spanish clubs needed to sell(and doing so helped them greatly, look at all the recent success), but this is no longer necessary and their priorities now are keeping their best players and growing.

 

Great post!

Yeah, it’s always been very difficult to sign Athletic 0ayers historically because of the fact they can only play players that are in some way connected to the Basque region.  But then again during the 80s Barcelona signed plenty of Basque players albeit from both main Basque clubs Athletic and La Real.  But on the main they’ve always managed to hang on to most of them...

Look at Kepa, he’s stayed now but in this case not because he wanted to but because the Real Madrid move was thwarted by none other than Zinedine Zidane himself who also (it hasn’t come to light today) refused the signing of Alexis Sánchez which was apparently quite advanced over the past month or so.

Athletic Bilbao’s problem has always been the fact they’ve never been allowed to sign that little bit extra to accompany they’re amazing youngsters that continuously come from Lezama (Athletic’s academy).  They would’ve won a lot more but then again they may have not been as loved as they are by everyone because they’re everyone’s second team in Spain (obviously not for Real Sociedad fans  and are the exception).  They are a beacon for what football once was many many moons ago pre-war everywhere and never changed. People everywhere love their philosophy and their fans are proud of it and even though every fan wants to win things, they’re more proud of what they stand for than all that.

[Carnivore Chris]

 

 

 

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, The Rebel CRS said:

 

 

 

Espanyol fans are banned from the Camp Nou when both clubs play eachother. But because of Barça’s unique old fashioned way they sell tickets at the box office, they subjected themselves to this where they situated themselves above the Barcelona Ultras. 

[Carnivore Chris]

It was funny when Pique said Espanyol de Cornella to be honest. He kept casually repeating it throughout the interview. He doesn't give a fuck.

[SirBalon]

5 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

It was funny when Pique said Espanyol de Cornella to be honest. He kept casually repeating it throughout the interview. He doesn't give a fuck.

Sergio Busquets joined in too when he took his turn in the post match press conference 

Although in all seriousness Valverde (as is becoming of him) calmed things down today when he said Espanyol are from Barcelona and nobody need worry. 

[Carnivore Chris]

15 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Sergio Busquets joined in too when he took his turn in the post match press conference 

Although in all seriousness Valverde (as is becoming of him) calmed things down today when he said Espanyol are from Barcelona and nobody need worry. 

The rivalry is healthy and the fact it even affects the players of both teams shows how they belong at their respective clubs. They get into it and that was a very difficult tie, which in the end could have even gone Espanyol's way.

It's one of the oldest derbies in Spanish football and will always be a heated battled, even if some of the games can be one way and the 2 teams are often at the opposite end of the table. Unfortunately, as seen in the video above, you still have idiots who go out of their way to cause trouble and fight.

 

 

As for Valverde  creating the peace, that's Valverde for you, he never says anything in the media and is wise in this regard. You won't see him getting into slanging contests with other managers like the Mourinhos and Contes of this world any time soon. He's a different type of character.

It's also got to be noted that he has managed Espanyol before and has a lot of respect for them. If you remember(which you will of course), it was he who got them to the UEFA cup final over a decade ago and of course, also played for them, where they also reached a UEFA cup final. The only 2 in their history in fact.

[SirBalon]

17 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

The rivalry is healthy and the fact it even affects the players of both teams shows how they belong at their respective clubs. They get into it and that was a very difficult tie, which in the end could have even gone Espanyol's way.

It's one of the oldest derbies in Spanish football and will always be a heated battled, even if some of the games can be one way and the 2 teams are often at the opposite end of the table. Unfortunately, as seen in the video above, you still have idiots who go out of their way to cause trouble and fight.

 

 

As for Valverde  creating the peace, that's Valverde for you, he never says anything in the media and is wise in this regard. You won't see him getting into slanging contests with other managers like the Mourinhos and Contes of this world any time soon. He's a different type of character.

It's also got to be noted that he has managed Espanyol before and has a lot of respect for them. If you remember(which you will of course), it was he who got them to the UEFA cup final over a decade ago and of course, also played for them, where they also reached a UEFA cup final. The only 2 in their history in fact.

Didn’t he win the UEFA CUP as a player with Espanyol?  I haven’t bothered to check to be honest as per usual 

Valverde is a mild character in press conferences and very respectful which is a good thing.  They even asked him about Real Madrid’s situation and Zidane possibly getting fired now or in the summer where he responded with; “I find that disrespectful for a coach that has delivered what he has in his time in charge there. Also what he gave the club as a player.  I think we should all respect him, I know I do”. Totally defused the situation and the press knew they weren’t getting anymore and just moved onto football related questions again.

[Carnivore Chris]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

Didn’t he win the UEFA CUP as a player with Espanyol?  I haven’t bothered to check to be honest as per usual 

Valverde is a mild character in press conferences and very respectful which is a good thing.  They even asked him about Real Madrid’s situation and Zidane possibly getting fired now or in the summer where he responded with; “I find that disrespectful for a coach that has delivered what he has in his time in charge there. Also what he gave the club as a player.  I think we should all respect him, I know I do”. Totally defused the situation and the press knew they weren’t getting anymore and just moved onto football related questions again.

Nah, I think they have only ever reached 2 finals in their history, but not actually won it.

Same as Athletic in fact.

In many ways Spanish clubs have underperformed in Europe over history when you consider that Atletico have lost 3 Champions league finals(more than ever other club without actually winning it), Valencia have lost 2 then you have the likes of Athletic and Espanyol never winning the UEFA cup, but both reaching various finals.

Didn't Real Zaragoza win the Cup winners cup though? They also won an Inter-city fairs cup, which was the predecessor of the UEFA Cup. Barcelona themselves have never won the UEFA cup while on the topic, although did win the Inter City fairs cup which came before it.

 

 

 

[SirBalon]

13 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

Nah, I think they have only ever reached 2 finals in their history, but not actually won it.

Same as Athletic in fact.

In many ways Spanish clubs have underperformed in Europe over history when you consider that Atletico have lost 3 Champions league finals(more than ever other club without actually winning it), Valencia have lost 2 then you have the likes of Athletic and Espanyol never winning the UEFA cup, but both reaching various finals.

Didn't Real Zaragoza win the Cup winners cup though? They also won an Inter-city fairs cup, which was the predecessor of the UEFA Cup. Barcelona themselves have never won the UEFA cup while on the topic, although did win the Inter City fairs cup which came before it.

 

 

 

I think the Fairs Cup constitutes a UEFA Cup win because it was the previous name of the competition in the same manner we have the European Cup changing its name to the Champions League.

I don’t know where I heard or read that Valverde had won the UEFA Cup... Must’ve dreamt it. 

[Stan]

what an assist that was by Messi. Dinks it over from the byline to find Suarez to power a header in. Been a tough game so far as Valencia difficult to break down! 1-0. 

[Carnivore Chris]

It's been a tight and difficult game as both teams have cancelled each other out in what has been a tactical battle. It took a moment from Messi and a goal from Suarez to change this.

Umtiti has been quality by the way. Man of the match for me.

[Stan]

16 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

It's been a tight and difficult game as both teams have cancelled each other out in what has been a tactical battle. It took a moment from Messi and a goal from Suarez to change this.

Umtiti has been quality by the way. Man of the match for me.

Liked Umtiti as well but thought the barge on the Valencia player was a bit OTT  

[SirBalon]

Barcelona absolutely overran Valencia in the first half and how they didn’t score goals (plural) I will never know. The only thing Valencia done in the first half all happened in the final 60 seconds of that period.

In the second half it was all a lot more tempered by both sides with Valencia coming more into it although Barça were always in control and then came the goal by Luis Suárez.  The result is short for what Barcelona displayed today and it should’ve been sorted for the second leg and instead it’s still game on although an away goal by Barça at the Mestalla will leave Valencia with a lot to do.  But Valencia this season havehad some amazing games at home although they’ve gone slightly off the boil since Christmas compared to their first half of the season.

[Asura]

I saw Iniesta take a bad touch and the ball run out of field in today's match, miracles do happen.

[Asura]

Also, I thought Messi was selfish today, he should have passed in few instances which probably could have led to goals or better shots on target. He was shooting way too much despite 2-3 guys covering the angle, not seen him do that before.

Umtiti and Sergi Roberto were brilliant defensively and Busquets was at his usual best. 

[SirBalon]

27 minutes ago, Asura said:

Also, I thought Messi was selfish today, he should have passed in few instances which probably could have led to goals or better shots on target. He was shooting way too much despite 2-3 guys covering the angle, not seen him do that before.

Umtiti and Sergi Roberto were brilliant defensively and Busquets was at his usual best. 

Umtiti was indeed very good but then again Barcelona didn’t really have all that much to do defensively...  But he was there for those moments where Valencia had chances.

For me Sergio Busquets played the puppet master game last night.  An absolute delight to see such incredible control of the whole situation.

[Carnivore Chris]

10 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Umtiti was indeed very good but then again Barcelona didn’t really have all that much to do defensively...  But he was there for those moments where Valencia had chances.

For me Sergio Busquets played the puppet master game last night.  An absolute delight to see such incredible control of the whole situation.

It's not just in defence mate, but what he was doing in the oppositions half as well.

Quality defender. Comfortable on the ball, likes to win the ball back in his opposition's half, he presses them, has a good short pass on him, great from a positional sense...He's perfect for Barcelona.

 

[Stan]

2nd legs this week

Wednesday 7th Feb
Sevilla (1) vs (1) Leganes, 19.45

Thursday 8th Feb
Valencia (0) vs (1) Barcelona, 20.30

[SirBalon]

SEVILLA FC 2-0 CD LEGANÉS

SEVILLA FC FINALIST (3-1 agg)

[Stan]

Sevilla's 17th final in 12 years. 

[SirBalon]

Coutinhoooooooooooooooooooo 0-1