SirBalon 2,692 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Spike said: Given that he was so natural playing in whatever position he likes, wouldn't it be insincere to vote for him as 'best' CM/LW/ST/ad nauseum? Seeing as he was none of those but a transcendence? The thing is that I don't like the formation and the midfield is unbalanced to really create something proper tactically to be honest. I just thought that from a football purism perspective he had to be in it somewhere. If you take football globally and appreciating history too, then it is practically impossible to come to a just and coherent option for just XI footballers. I mean, we're gonna leave out people like Puskas, Kubala, Charlton, Best, Beckenbauer, Stanley Matthews, Garrincha and maybe people like Pelé, Eusebio, Bergkamp, Dalglish, Hagi, Stoichkov etc... etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, SirBalon said: The thing is that I don't like the formation and the midfield is unbalanced to really create something proper tactically to be honest. I just thought that from a football purism perspective he had to be in it somewhere. If you take football globally and appreciating history too, then it is practically impossible to come to a just and coherent option for just XI footballers. I mean, we're gonna leave out people like Puskas, Kubala, Charlton, Best, Beckenbauer, Stanley Matthews, Garrincha and maybe people like Pelé, Eusebio, Bergkamp, Dalglish, Hagi, Stoichkov etc... etc... I wasn't talking about formation or something tactically coherent, I even posted up a little that I was against an 'XI'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, Spike said: I wasn't talking about formation or something tactically coherent, I even posted up a little that I was against an 'XI'. The thing is that it's very easy to name 22 players or simply make a list of the greatest in each individual position. The hard part is trying to make a coherent statement as to an XI which is where I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Just now, SirBalon said: The thing is that it's very easy to name 22 players or simply make a list of the greatest in each individual position. The hard part is trying to make a coherent statement as to an XI which is where I agree with you. I find it even stupid to do an XI. Here are the best players I've watched live (I didn't really start watching football till I was a teenager, I only watched rugby league). I watched a lot of Barcelona from around 10-13 and they are the team I hold to the highest standard and I'm most critical of. Not a club I particularly care for but I'm a huge fan of the team they had. Ten positions GK; Gigi Buffon CB; Carles Puyol LB; Ashley Cole RB; Javier Zanetti DM; Sergio Busquets CM; Frank Lampard AM; Andres Iniesta LW; Arjen Robben RW; Critiano Ronaldo ST; Lionel Messi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoNose 2 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Spike said: I find it even stupid to do an XI. Here are the best players I've watched live (I didn't really start watching football till I was a teenager, I only watched rugby league). I watched a lot of Barcelona from around 10-13 and they are the team I hold to the highest standard and I'm most critical of. Not a club I particularly care for but I'm a huge fan of the team they had. Ten positions GK; Gigi Buffon CB; Carles Puyol LB; Ashley Cole RB; Javier Zanetti DM; Sergio Busquets CM; Frank Lampard AM; Andres Iniesta LW; Arjen Robben RW; Critiano Ronaldo ST; Lionel Messi Robben on the right surely, cutting in on his left? (Or is it the other way round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 10 minutes ago, WhoNose said: Robben on the right surely, cutting in on his left? (Or is it the other way round I just mixed up Ronaldo and Robben is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Never seen Messi this mad. Absolutley stunning defending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Chris 2,606 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 14 hours ago, SirBalon said: That was the period but I stress, he wasn't a striker and if you speak to Real Madrid fans from that era, they'll be adamant he wasn't... He would place himself deep in midfield and literally just play by intelligently moving around the field depending on what the scene was performance wise. For the real football aficionado and those that speak real football they'll tell you to forget Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi or whoever... They'll say with the most serious believing face that Di Stéfano is the greatest player to have ever graced the field. I've seen a hell of a lot of video footage of him, read books, watched documentaries and actually lived (remember it decently) through part of his managerial career. It's not the same as watching players at the time they were performing for sure. I mean, watching a player consistently enough at the ground has nothing to do with seeing him on tv. I've seen players that look amazing until I see them a few times at the ground and then I'm not all that impressed while I've seen others that don't get much media protagonism and then they stick out to me when I see them play their on the pitch. So I can't make a proper assessment which is why further up I said that I couldn't opt for players like that from the past even though I KNOW they should be in there. There are even some that I don't have to have watched because it so bloody evident they were on a different stratosphere that leaving them out and talking real football is a sacrilege. I would have had Di Stefano myself but I only included players from my time or that I have seen tons of material of to give a fairer judgement. There isn't enough out there available of Di Stefano to do so, atleast not that I have found as I spent a bit of a time a while back searching for material of players such as Di Stefano and others from his generation. It's easy with the likes of Maradona and Cruijff as there is a lot more out there to give you an idea of how truly great they actually were. In general I tried to only really include players I lived, with a few exceptions of players from the past who I've seen a lot of material of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura 319 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 3:31 PM, SirBalon said: That was the period but I stress, he wasn't a striker and if you speak to Real Madrid fans from that era, they'll be adamant he wasn't... He would place himself deep in midfield and literally just play by intelligently moving around the field depending on what the scene was performance wise. For the real football aficionado and those that speak real football they'll tell you to forget Pelé, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi or whoever... They'll say with the most serious believing face that Di Stéfano is the greatest player to have ever graced the field. I've seen a hell of a lot of video footage of him, read books, watched documentaries and actually lived (remember it decently) through part of his managerial career. It's not the same as watching players at the time they were performing for sure. I mean, watching a player consistently enough at the ground has nothing to do with seeing him on tv. I've seen players that look amazing until I see them a few times at the ground and then I'm not all that impressed while I've seen others that don't get much media protagonism and then they stick out to me when I see them play their on the pitch. So I can't make a proper assessment which is why further up I said that I couldn't opt for players like that from the past even though I KNOW they should be in there. There are even some that I don't have to have watched because it so bloody evident they were on a different stratosphere that leaving them out and talking real football is a sacrilege. All these days I was thinking he was a striker or winger. Some great information in this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 4 hours ago, Asura said: All these days I was thinking he was a striker or winger. Some great information in this post Many people think that or that he was an attacking midfielder, but mainly outside Spain. There are so many stories about him from both his colleagues and his rivals about him commanding practically the whole pitch. He would even join in defensive work if there were games where Real Madrid weren't dominating like they usually did by slotting in as a centre halve. That era wasn't what football is today and it all changed radically with Helenio Herrera when tactics became extremely important with players fixed in their positions... Johan Cruyff and Rinus Michels would go onto change that later on with "Total Football". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura 319 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 8 hours ago, SirBalon said: Many people think that or that he was an attacking midfielder, but mainly outside Spain. There are so many stories about him from both his colleagues and his rivals about him commanding practically the whole pitch. He would even join in defensive work if there were games where Real Madrid weren't dominating like they usually did by slotting in as a centre halve. That era wasn't what football is today and it all changed radically with Helenio Herrera when tactics became extremely important with players fixed in their positions... Johan Cruyff and Rinus Michels would go onto change that later on with "Total Football". Isnt what he (Di Stefano) was doing called as Total Football? A player playing in almost every possible position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, Asura said: Isnt what he (Di Stefano) was doing called as Total Football? A player playing in almost every possible position? You could say that but wheras the theory of a player being able to cover everywhere was different with him. At that time he was the best in every position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Asura said: Isnt what he (Di Stefano) was doing called as Total Football? A player playing in almost every possible position? Not really, Total Football would have players switch positions freely, there was always a set formation but no player was set in a single position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura 319 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Anyways where do we stand on the main topic? Do we have a second midfielder yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,265 Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 6 minutes ago, Asura said: Anyways where do we stand on the main topic? Do we have a second midfielder yet? Nope. You lot felt the need to post best all time XI rather than a second midfielder.... Maradona (5) Zidane (3) Xavi (3) Ronaldinho (2) Scholes (1) Lampard (1) Schweinsteiger (1) Matthaus (1) Pirlo (1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura 319 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cicero said: Nope. You lot felt the need to post best all time XI rather than a second midfielder.... Maradona (5) Zidane (3) Xavi (3) Ronaldinho (2) Scholes (1) Lampard (1) Schweinsteiger (1) Matthaus (1) Pirlo (1) Dont blame me, its the bible writer's fault @SirBalon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I had already made my two votes in the one post, in my defence. Or are we meant to vote again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura 319 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 30 minutes ago, Inverted said: I had already made my two votes in the one post, in my defence. Or are we meant to vote again? I guess he is waiting for more folks to vote before declaring the second midfielder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 I think there's meant to be a third midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 20 hours ago, SirBalon said: I think there's meant to be a third midfielder. Well we've got Busquets down. Then we got asked to vote for the 2 #8s at the same time, and afaik everyone did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, Inverted said: Well we've got Busquets down. Then we got asked to vote for the 2 #8s at the same time, and afaik everyone did. When I done an XI I did it out of curiosity and not to derail Cicero's thread. I think he then asked for a further midfielder and I've added Di Stéfano to Iniesta and Maradona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,265 Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 As things stand, Maradona will partner Iniesta. I'll give it another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 2,201 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Messi C. Ronaldo - Zidane - Makalele - Xavi - Iniesta Cole - Maldini - Puyol - Cafu VDS I realise I've done this wrong but I got too far into my team until then. The team is also fairl modern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,265 Posted April 3, 2017 Author Share Posted April 3, 2017 Forgot about this. TalkFootball365 All time Centre Midfielder... Diego Maradona ST LW------------------------------RW Iniesta---Maradona Busquets Maldini----Puyol---Nesta---Lahm Buffon We will begin the nomination of LW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,265 Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Lads let's finish this up, I'll start by nominating Cristiano Ronaldo for LW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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