Honey Honey 3,767 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 Are you going to the solidarity with Catalonia march in London today @SirBalon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 33 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said: Are you going to the solidarity with Catalonia march in London today @SirBalon? I wouldn't mind to be honest... Problem is I do Spanish Guitar lessons at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God is Haaland 618 Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 4 hours ago, SirBalon said: I wouldn't mind to be honest... Problem is I do Spanish Guitar lessons at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowabunga 313 Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 On 21/10/2017 at 11:11 AM, BartraPique1932 said: More than a thousand companies moved their HQs out of Catalonia already. Codorníu, Gallo, Zurich, Servihabitat, Pangaea Oncology...... That doesn't matter, what matters is German overlords will look back to the past and will realize the european civilization's been Catalan all along and that for the next 1700 years the western world will live and think the Catalan way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God is Haaland 618 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 14 hours ago, Kowabunga said: That doesn't matter, what matters is German overlords will look back to the past and will realize the european civilization's been Catalan all along and that for the next 1700 years the western world will live and think the Catalan way. What's the Catalonian way? Self destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 39 minutes ago, BartraPique1932 said: What's the Catalonian way? Self destruction? Indoctrination to start with... Then, having a very curious but fantastical habit of making history up as you go along... One of the best ones (there's been dozens) I've heard in recent times was Carles Puigdemont a few months ago visiting Harvard in the US where he stated that the Catalan Parliamentary system was one of the oldest in the world and the oldest in Spain. Obviously a total lie as the oldest in Spain is the Parliamentary system in León and the Catalan system is actually one of the youngest having never been an independent state in its history (being part of Aragón isn't an independent state) and never having a monarchical throne of its own. Infact, they've been owned by various systems during their whole existence. They've got it into their head that having a language is the basis for building borders. Also, just to note! Carles Puigdemont is a very wealthy man! A multi millionaire! Not of his own making mind you because he inherited it all from his father... Not that there's anything wrong with that as it's a father's duty and love that tries to put his children on a good path for the future. The issue there is the fact his father was a fervent Francoist and made his fortunes off the back of the regime... If there's an ounce of dignity in this man, he knows what to do! But because him and so many others involved in all of this are based on such bullshit, then this is the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 2 hours ago, SirBalon said: They've got it into their head that having a language is the basis for building borders. Why not? All democracies require boundaries. They wouldn't have a regional parliament in the first place if there wasn't sufficient cultural and historical reason for it, so the boundary has been legitimized by the rest of Spain. You're taking the starting position of what is the point of Catalonia, but what is the point of Spain? If there was a good answer to that then support for independence wouldn't be so high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said: Why not? All democracies require boundaries. They wouldn't have a regional parliament in the first place if there wasn't sufficient cultural and historical reason for it, so the boundary has been legitimized by the rest of Spain. You're taking the starting position of what is the point of Catalonia, but what is the point of Spain? If there was a good answer to that then support for independence wouldn't be so high. Every region has an autonomous parliament in Spain. Catalonia aren’t unique on that stance and 6 other regions have official different lnguages in Spain, again they’re not unique on that stance. Infact there are other regions in Spain with legitimate calls for independence if we’re to go down that route... Catalonia isn’t and never has been one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, SirBalon said: Every region has an autonomous parliament in Spain. Catalonia aren’t unique on that stance and 6 other regions have official different lnguages in Spain, again they’re not unique on that stance. Infact there are other regions in Spain with legitimate calls for independence if we’re to go down that route... Catalonia isn’t and never has been one of those. They don't have to be unique. Other regions act to serve as an indicator that Spain is a collection of groups and as such is susceptible to losing its purpose of bringing that collective together. Its purpose obviously isn't at a micro local level which is where Catalonia's purpose and current power is. Since many macro powers were signed away in European treaties what is the point of Spain? Nothing about this is actual national independence. It's an ethnic facade that cuts out the middle man (Spain) who has become useless and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God is Haaland 618 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 hours ago, SirBalon said: Indoctrination to start with... Then, having a very curious but fantastical habit of making history up as you go along... One of the best ones (there's been dozens) I've heard in recent times was Carles Puigdemont a few months ago visiting Harvard in the US where he stated that the Catalan Parliamentary system was one of the oldest in the world and the oldest in Spain. Obviously a total lie as the oldest in Spain is the Parliamentary system in León and the Catalan system is actually one of the youngest having never been an independent state in its history (being part of Aragón isn't an independent state) and never having a monarchical throne of its own. Infact, they've been owned by various systems during their whole existence. They've got it into their head that having a language is the basis for building borders. Also, just to note! Carles Puigdemont is a very wealthy man! A multi millionaire! Not of his own making mind you because he inherited it all from his father... Not that there's anything wrong with that as it's a father's duty and love that tries to put his children on a good path for the future. The issue there is the fact his father was a fervent Francoist and made his fortunes off the back of the regime... If there's an ounce of dignity in this man, he knows what to do! But because him and so many others involved in all of this are based on such bullshit, then this is the result. Great post! Thank you, mate. Altough I'm generally against regionalism, I actually think Catalonia deserves autonomy for historical reasons. I feel sympathy for the people in this reagion, because of what happened during the Franco era. However it's pretty stupid to try to achieve autonomy in this self-destructive manner. If you want to leave a country or a big market like the EU you need careful preparations and a lot of patience. It's important to minimise the time period in which you have no access to the EU market as mucha s possible. In other words you need the EU on your side first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 11 hours ago, BartraPique1932 said: Great post! Thank you, mate. Altough I'm generally against regionalism, I actually think Catalonia deserves autonomy for historical reasons. I feel sympathy for the people in this reagion, because of what happened during the Franco era. However it's pretty stupid to try to achieve autonomy in this self-destructive manner. If you want to leave a country or a big market like the EU you need careful preparations and a lot of patience. It's important to minimise the time period in which you have no access to the EU market as mucha s possible. In other words you need the EU on your side first. Thanks mate... But let me make a few points here on things you may or may not be aware of after reading your post. The bit about Catalonia deserving autonomy I don't understand as every region has autonomy in Spain with their own parliament where then central government is involved very little. As for the historical reason you have sympathies for, I don't understand and you'd have to elaborate. As for what happened in the Franco era... Catalonia didn't suffer more than anyone else or better said, some select regions in Spain. Various regions in Spain suffered in the same manner as they did and practically the whole of Spain suffered unless you were with the regime. I'll add a small anecdote but in Galicia (which ironically is where the Generalisimo was from) they (the Galicians) were down trodden there... The region became poverty stricken under his rule and my grandfather had an eye gouged out by that lot. As with Catalonia, you couldn't speak Gallego (Galician) because you would be found and sorted out by the Guardia Civil and their hoards... Anything you said in confession to the pries would curiously be found out by the regime and you would be sort after and made an example of. Infact one of my grandfather's uncles was murdered in front of his children when they barged in one night, pulled him out of bed by his hair and shot in the head strapped to a cow. Another neighbour had his tongue cut out and sewn to his throat... That's not to say that my grandparents harvest would be stolen by the regime every year for the army and the family would have to live off almost nothing. I could go on and I'm sure there are similar stories in many parts of Spain, certainly in Galicia that I know of and in the Basque region. If there was one region Franco helped so as to keep them quiet it was actually Catalonia where he would buy the bourgeois' "yes" with benefits ranging from land, money and preference in taking factories from other parts of Spain into Catalonia. Catalonia was strategic for General Franco and they didn't suffer as much as other regions although like I said, I won't say they didn't because anyone that was against him or ignored the draconian rules would be downtrodden. Obviously as the years went by his power wained and things became easier, but there were moments at the hight of the regime where it was nigh on impossible to live unless you were extremely wealthy and if you were wealthy and living in Spain not having left the country, you were in an extremely high majority with the regime. They have no more righteous right for anything than anyone else in that aspect. And like I pointed out to briefly which isn't near enough in something as complicated as this, if we go into the real history and rights for any sort of independence, then Catalonia come very very low in that aspect. What I will say for them is that they have always been more vocal in the sense of their identity for various reasons and in that sense the noise makes more impact than other areas that have more or less assimilated or even with a proud identity, are more conservative in their approach. Spain is a complicated situation but it isn't the old Yugoslavia by a long stretch... It's very different and unique with its differing cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozziovai 195 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41780116 what's next ................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 22 minutes ago, bozziovai said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41780116 what's next ................... Quebec and Arequipa gain independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ 15,325 Posted October 27, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted October 27, 2017 Bavaria secedes from Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God is Haaland 618 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, he did it, the absolute mad man! Puigdemont, you fool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honey Honey 3,767 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 They're fishing for violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panflute 670 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 special delivery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 It’s going to get ugly now, which is what Puigdemont wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Catalans are proud people so the tactic of "listen to us or we'll kick your ass" from the Spanish government was always going to make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt 1,282 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 5 hours ago, bozziovai said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41780116 what's next ................... This. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41783289 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots 607 Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 I think this situation needs Shia with a 24/7 webcam screaming “he (Puigdemont) will not divide us” somewhere just off las ramblas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozziovai 195 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 11 hours ago, Bluebird Hewitt said: This. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41783289 as expected, right ?? as what's discussed before that this declaration is out of the spanish constitution. this will drag on and on ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Things will remain as they are, the nationalists have their moment and can cry oppression without actually having any responsibility, they knew this would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 The shame on all of this is the fact there is no oppression. At least if a group of people are screaming "oppression" it makes it more interesting if there actually is some of that. But I'm sure they'll make something up as they go along like everything else... The latest one is Santa Teresa and Cervantes were Catalan apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 More than 1 million Catalans on the streets of Barcelona marching for a united Spain REAL DEMOCRACY WILL BE ON THE 21st DECEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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