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As @VanPaddy has touched on many times in the past, part of the problem is losing players from the Eredivisie at a very young age when they're just starting to make headlines back home.  The hunger for Europe's clubs with more money does a disservice to their development and also helps to destroy Dutch domestic football.  It's not just about money for these young players, but also the "fame" of playing in more renowned leagues these days.  Look at what happened to Memphis Depay who had the looks of being able to do things and his decisions too early stunted anything that could've happened...

What's the point in the top Dutch academies doing all that hard work when those players leave so early and in many cases for very low transfer fees.  Where's the benefit for anyone? 

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Maybe it's just a coincidence. We are too quick to diagnose a problem in young players development these days.

De Bruyne and Lukaku both recovered from Chelsea's child abuse. Go back before that and Robin van Persie took several years to materialise.

Maybe there actually isn't a diagnosable problem and the whole thing is just a coincidence.

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7 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Maybe it's just a coincidence. We are too quick to diagnose a problem in young players development these days.

De Bruyne and Lukaku both recovered from Chelsea's child abuse. Go back before that and Robin van Persie took several years to materialise.

Maybe there actually isn't a diagnosable problem and the whole thing is just a coincidence.

It has to do with the development of the players bodies also, Van Persie was a very gifted player, he won more at Feyenoord in a few years then he ever did at Arsenal, he won the league, cup and UEFA Cup as well as staring at a young age with Feyenoord but was not physically ready for Arsenal, its a complete different way of bringing players up in Holland and England.  In Holland they do not make them physically strong they prefer them to be this slim skillful player.   Robben as well left at a young age to Chelsea but his quality was already good enough for the first team,  a lot of these players In Holland have the quality but not the mentality, they start getting involved in other things instead of concentrating on football, Van der Wiel, Babel, Drenthe were all of the same generation but thought they get involved in clothing ranges as well as trying to be a rapper as well, this did really effect their football career.    Education is another factor as once these players receive a large amount of money they kind of stop playing football and their own career goes out of the window. 

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5 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Maybe it's just a coincidence. We are too quick to diagnose a problem in young players development these days.

De Bruyne and Lukaku both recovered from Chelsea's child abuse. Go back before that and Robin van Persie took several years to materialise.

Maybe there actually isn't a diagnosable problem and the whole thing is just a coincidence.

But you're naming a few players amongst dozens mate.

Aside from those Chelsea players you mentioned which I think went on loan to better themselves, Van Persie was part of an era when Arsenal were really providing top young talent they were poaching from abroad.

Many young players going to "top" clubs don't play and they need to be rescued in one manner or another whether it be through loan deals or signed by medium clubs in competitive leagues so as to advance.

Obviously that's not the only reason and the lack of a decent generation in itself which can be attributed to coincidence is the main factor.  There are many things that have been very wrong in the Dutch football system for a number of years though and the KNVB has a large proportion of the blame stuck to itself.

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3 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

But you're naming a few players amongst dozens mate.

Aside from those Chelsea players you mentioned which I think went on loan to better themselves, Van Persie was part of an era when Arsenal were really providing top young talent they were poaching from abroad.

Many young players going to "top" clubs don't play and they need to be rescued in one manner or another whether it be through loan deals or signed by medium clubs in competitive leagues so as to advance.

Obviously that's not the only reason and the lack of a decent generation in itself which can be attributed to coincidence is the main factor.  There are many things that have been very wrong in the Dutch football system for a number of years though and the KNVB has a large proportion of the blame stuck to itself.

Every big club in Europe has a few Dutch players in their youth, there are more Dutch players playing abroad in Youth teams then their are in the first teams.    The likes of Ajax are finding it hard compete as soon as they have a star in the making, he is gone for free at the age of 16.  There should be a rule in Holland that the players should not be allowed to leave until they are at least 21 unless there a specific circumstances,  they have tried to do this so many times but it is more a problem with UEFA/FIFA then with the KNVB regarding this problem. 

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Why should every good young player turn top class? That's never been the case. I recall the Dutch doing well at tournaments with a fair few bang average players in the team, particularly defensively. Historically they are proof you don't need 11 world class players. That they only ever had 2 to 5 and now have none is open to possibly being a statistical coincidence.

The Dutch are on a pedestal because of distant history. Another possible theory is that everyone has caught up with their youth setups, there is now a greater pool of talent at a young age, there are now less discrepancies between youth setups. If any element of that theory is true then again it is plausible that the overall talent would regress to a mean level and those who were previously in an advanced possession would start to regress to a mean level.

Football is very different to the early 00s and 90s. Keeping players in the Eredivisie for longer because that was the enviornment back then is not replicable today. It may be detrimental for some players and beneficial for others, but knowing who fits what can sometimes be total guess work.

The so called problems of young players such as distractions, money and fame is not unique to people who are Dutch. It is universal and yet the game is still producing top drawer players. As said at the top of the post all good young players don't become good pro's. The obsession with diagnosing the failure of the kids who massive expectations were placed on creates a perception that something is going wrong when it might be the hype that was wrong, or it might just be a natural filtering process that has always existed in football, that has always created a gap between who becomes the best and who doesn't.

Because we are desperate to find a reason for everything that happens sheer luck and coincidence is deleted from thinking when it is likely to account for at least some proportion of the outcome. 

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2 hours ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Why should every good young player turn top class? That's never been the case. I recall the Dutch doing well at tournaments with a fair few bang average players in the team, particularly defensively. Historically they are proof you don't need 11 world class players. That they only ever had 2 to 5 and now have none is open to possibly being a statistical coincidence.

The Dutch are on a pedestal because of distant history. Another possible theory is that everyone has caught up with their youth setups, there is now a greater pool of talent at a young age, there are now less discrepancies between youth setups. If any element of that theory is true then again it is plausible that the overall talent would regress to a mean level and those who were previously in an advanced possession would start to regress to a mean level.

Football is very different to the early 00s and 90s. Keeping players in the Eredivisie for longer because that was the enviornment back then is not replicable today. It may be detrimental for some players and beneficial for others, but knowing who fits what can sometimes be total guess work.

The so called problems of young players such as distractions, money and fame is not unique to people who are Dutch. It is universal and yet the game is still producing top drawer players. As said at the top of the post all good young players don't become good pro's. The obsession with diagnosing the failure of the kids who massive expectations were placed on creates a perception that something is going wrong when it might be the hype that was wrong, or it might just be a natural filtering process that has always existed in football, that has always created a gap between who becomes the best and who doesn't.

Because we are desperate to find a reason for everything that happens sheer luck and coincidence is deleted from thinking when it is likely to account for at least some proportion of the outcome. 

Well Holland as a country are always one lf the teams in youth then alot of the others, even some with huge finance. Every year Ajax hold the future cup, they batter teams like Barcelona. Its just when they get to a certain age they dont seem to fulfil their potential, maybe it is the expections are too much.  

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Ruud Gullit words during a speech.

 


"There are young players coming around, only people don't see it," he said at a promotional event in Luxembourg last Saturday.

"The biggest problem in Holland is that young players, when there is a talent, they get them away to the academies abroad and they don't play first-team football."

Gullit joined the current Premier League champions, Chelsea, in 1995 after a very successful period in Italy in which he won two European Cups and three Serie A titles with AC Milan.

The former Ballon d'Or winner said his former club signed Dutch defender Nathan Ake at the age of 17, only for him to be sent away on loan.

"That's the biggest problem that we have," he said. "If they don't play, then Ake for instance sits on bench with Chelsea for two years, then finally he can play in Bournemouth and then he goes back, so it's a year again on the bench.

"That is already 10 percent out of your career.

"So therefore we warned players, young players, to stay in Holland and play first-team football. Because then, later on when you're good enough, you will get to places anyway."

But Gullit, 55, conceded that teenagers' heads can be turned by lucrative deals to the Premier League.

"We say 'don't do it'. But if you get an offer of £800,000 ($1.05 million) a year and you're 17 years old, what do you do then?"

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 11/10/2017 at 3:13 PM, VanPaddy said:

One of the best young players we had is quincy Promes  but he fucked off to Russia,  i mean what talent goes to Russia if it isnt for money.

He must have been a lost promes then.

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  • 3 months later...

The league has got a lot better this year,  PSV have got some very strong players this year, they have scouted Mexico and South america but also have talented Dutch players. Feyenoord have a number of young Dutch players as has Ajax as well as the talented David Neres.

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17 hours ago, Cicero said:

Biggest bullet we've ever dodged. 

Imagine if we had gotten him ahead of Azpilicueta xD

Van der wiel was a very talented player until he got his head turned getting involved in Music and Fashion,  Bellerin really is heading in the same way I can see a mirror image. 

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  • 1 month later...
15 minutes ago, Stan said:

Bas Dost retires from international football only aged 28

https://twitter.com/Official_T4O/status/986203096178184192?s=19

He is very upset because no one rates him in Holland, they do not take him seriously, for Lisbon, they are putting crosses in and using his strengths but when he plays for Holland he is used as some of kind of player as a last minute gamble sub to throw long balls in.     He could of been the Dutch Jan Koller :(

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