Fairy In Boots Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Appears organic and not directly influenced by another nation. I wish them well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted December 31, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted December 31, 2017 Hope it turns out better than the 2009 ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted December 31, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted December 31, 2017 @Dr. Gonzo any thoughts about this? It seems that the protests are very segmented, and it appears to have been originally started by the hardliners to create trouble for Rouhani's government, but now has developed into a number of chaotic protests against everything, including Rouhani, the mullahs and the theocracy. Seems really confusing, what do the protesters even want, are there any key points? Without proper leaders and agenda, this is just likely to die out or get taken over by external influences with their own agenda. Hope the country won't descend into chaos as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I don't know if the hardliners were behind it or not to start things off, but if they were they've sort of fucked up. The price of basically everything has gone way up, and wages haven't gone up. So there are a lot of pissed off people. And with the theocrats in power being obsessed with Israel and the Saudis, the government is more focused on arming Hezbollah and the Houthi rebels than economic recovery. The 2009 protests led to a bunch of protestors gunned down on my uncle's street in Tehran after they kicked the foreign media out... So I hope it goes better than it did then. I hope this leads to regime change because the Iranian government is so fucking horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Looks like they're shooting at protestors again https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/30/iranian-students-clash-police-tehran-protests-enter-third-day/ Cunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber nudge+ Posted December 31, 2017 Subscriber Share Posted December 31, 2017 17 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: I don't know if the hardliners were behind it or not to start things off, but if they were they've sort of fucked up. The price of basically everything has gone way up, and wages haven't gone up. So there are a lot of pissed off people. And with the theocrats in power being obsessed with Israel and the Saudis, the government is more focused on arming Hezbollah and the Houthi rebels than economic recovery. The 2009 protests led to a bunch of protestors gunned down on my uncle's street in Tehran after they kicked the foreign media out... So I hope it goes better than it did then. I hope this leads to regime change because the Iranian government is so fucking horrible. I don't know, it seems that the protests are way too general in nature to generate any real change at this stage. Even if it develops into something more organised than just channeling their frustration at the regime, recent examples of regime change in other Middle East countries haven't been encouraging, to put it mildly... I understand why people are pissed off, and to be honest, dire economic state has much more potential to spark a revolution than a lack of political and social liberties alone, but I wouldn't be too optimistic about the outcome, unless a well-organised entity with proper leadership and well-defined goals that are supported by most groups within the country arises in the process, which, let's be honest, is not usually the case with most of revolutions. Otherwise, there's a big chance of the country falling apart and outside forces using it as an opportunity to take down Iran for good (if those forces aren't at work already, that is). Which is sad, as I think that Iran with a stable, secular government and no sanctions would be an extremely flourishing and important country in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I'm sure foreign influences are always at play when it comes to Iran. For 100 odd years the country's history of one of constant meddling by the UK/Russia/USA. I think the fact it's the 2nd largest crude oil reserve in the world guarantees foreign intervention in Iran - let's not forget that pre-1979 Khoemeini had western ties as well, and stayed in Paris when he was exiled. I agree with you that with a stable & secular government Iran could be a really great place in the region. But tbh they had that, but the regime was also autocratic in it's own ways & had a brutal secret police... So post-revolution we ended up with a MORE authoritarian regime in Iran, which is kind of hilarious... but also incredibly sad and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panflute Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 This'll go well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 There's a media blackout and internet/phone lines have been cut for most of the country... so it's pretty hard to figure out what the fuck is going on now. I've got family in Tehran & Shiraz, I'd heard from my uncle last night US Pacific time. But today the government seems to have reacted by the blackout and cutting lines of communication. There've been rumours for a very long time that Khameini is dying/dead. There are rumours now that a lot of top level clerics and revolutionary guard officers have fled the country... which might make sense if Khameini is in fact dead. But I suspect that these rumours are similar to the rumours that Khameini is a heroin addict - likely unsubstantiated bullshit about a mysterious despot. Here's a nice video though: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Still no comment from Corbyn about it and mounting pressure given his tv work a few years back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berserker Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said: There's a media blackout and internet/phone lines have been cut for most of the country... so it's pretty hard to figure out what the fuck is going on now. I've got family in Tehran & Shiraz, I'd heard from my uncle last night US Pacific time. But today the government seems to have reacted by the blackout and cutting lines of communication. There've been rumours for a very long time that Khameini is dying/dead. There are rumours now that a lot of top level clerics and revolutionary guard officers have fled the country... which might make sense if Khameini is in fact dead. But I suspect that these rumours are similar to the rumours that Khameini is a heroin addict - likely unsubstantiated bullshit about a mysterious despot. Here's a nice video though: You're of Iranian descent?, would have never imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 6 hours ago, Berserker said: You're of Iranian descent?, would have never imagined. Half. Or less than half from the results of some DNA test lol. 6 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said: Still no comment from Corbyn about it and mounting pressure given his tv work a few years back. Tbf it's pretty reckless to comment on for anyone in an official government role. Especially with how difficult it is right now to figure out what's going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I'll be reckless and predict what will happen though. Iran will load up a bunch of desperate and poor Syrians and Palestinians onto planes. They'll be paid to crack protestors skulls open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Western meddling incoming.... https://www.voanews.com/a/state-department-official-says-iranians-afte-biggest-victim-of-government/4188432.html I like this gem... Q: President [Donald] Trump has voiced his support to the protesters and people in Iran. How does the United States respond to calls and appeals to lift the travel ban which limits Iranians coming to the United States? Peek: "Well, the president has made it very clear that his support is with the Iranian people, I think all of us is. The travel restrictions are a measure imposed as an effort to limit some of Homeland Security vulnerabilities. And I think the United States continues to assess what the vulnerabilities and the best way you address them going forward." So Iranians were banned to limit Homeland Security vulnerabilities despite the fact that there have been a grand total of 0 incidents of terror from Iranian nationals. Meanwhile a bunch of Saudi's fly airplanes into the WTC and Pentagon and they're not on the list of banned countries. And then they expect to maintain credibility? The US politicians (and political talking heads) that have been most vocal about doing something in the aftermath of these protests are namely: 1.) Donald Trump, an unabashed Islamophobe who's now saying he stands with the Iranian people after banning them from entering his country; 2.) John McCain, who cares so deeply about the Iranian people he's been wanting to drop bombs on Tehran for fucking decades; and 3.) Bill Kristol, who has also been advocating to bomb Iran for decades as well. These people are not to be trusted when they talk about standing with the Iranian people, because if these protests never happened but there was a push to bomb Iran... they'd be more than happy and willing to drop bombs on the same innocent people who are taking to the streets now. Foreign interference has never gone well in Iran, even though the US/UK/Russia have spent the last 100 odd years dipping their fingers into the country and fucking things up. Interestingly, some of the loudest voices for the west to get involved with Iran now come from the People's Mujahedin of Iran (MEK) - who've been protesting in Paris to pressure for western intervention. MEK was a part of the fairly diverse group that took part in the 1979 revolution, but once Khomeini decided to purge political opposition in the 80s and MEK was part of the political opposition being detained, tortured, and murdered... they obviously have turned on the regime. And normally I'd think "yeah that's a good thing, fuck the Islamic Republic of Iran" - but MEK have commit acts of terror in Iran since the 80s and the purge began. During the Iran-Iraq war, MEK fought alongside Sadam's forces against Iranians - subsequently, most Iranians, even those who hate the regime, absolutely hate MEK and they're viewed as terrorists and traitors. MEK has also been alleged to work with ISIS (as Iran is one of the major forces on the ground against ISIS). They've also got this weird cult of personality around their leader Maryam Rajavi - it sort of seems cultlike when/if you ever talk to one of these people. So MEK are a bunch of cunts and be careful about the shit they say and the propaganda they push. Because while a shitload of Iranians and the Iranian diaspora want to see regime change and an end to the Islamic Republic... very few people want to have their government handed over to a group like MEK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 1/3/2018 at 1:23 AM, Berserker said: You're of Iranian descent?, would have never imagined. Shh! He could be Persian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 25 minutes ago, Spike said: Shh! He could be Persian I am Persian... but not all Iranians are (there's Azeris, Kurds, Arabs, Baluchis, Lors, Yazidis, and Armenians). But yeah, the overwhelming majority of Iranians are Persians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted January 8, 2018 Author Share Posted January 8, 2018 I’d picked up James Clavell’s “Whirlwind” in a charity shop a week before this had kicked off to. Iran have reported banned English being taught in schools in a move to counter westernisation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 7 hours ago, Fairy In Boots said: I’d picked up James Clavell’s “Whirlwind” in a charity shop a week before this had kicked off to. Iran have reported banned English being taught in schools in a move to counter westernisation It's a stupid move to ban English being taught in schools as all it does is punish poorer kids from getting a chance to learn it, while rich families can hire private tutors. The best hope Iranian youth has for a better life is to be a part of the brain drain. Do well in school and try to get the fuck out ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Iran will always keep mendling in middle eastern affairs. Its because of the 'Superiority Complex' of the Iranian people. The Persian Empire, Cyrus The Great blah blah all those things makes them think they are better then the rest of Asian nations. They are physicaly more robust then other Asian people, this adds to their fuel. They think they are Europeons struck in Asia. I even read some Persians saying Iran should be part of UEFA because if former provinces of Persia like Azerbaijan,Georgia etc can be a part then why not Iran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Azeem98 said: Iran will always keep mendling in middle eastern affairs. Its because of the 'Superiority Complex' of the Iranian people. The Persian Empire, Cyrus The Great blah blah all those things makes them think they are better then the rest of Asian nations. They are physicaly more robust then other Asian people, this adds to their fuel. They think they are Europeons struck in Asia. I even read some Persians saying Iran should be part of UEFA because if former provinces of Persia like Azerbaijan,Georgia etc can be a part then why not Iran I have a friend from Iran (very affluent and very well off) who comes into the categories you’ve just written... He definitely doesn’t associate himself at all with the rest of the Middle East and I won’t repeat what he says here on this forum because it’s not apt for consumption. I just wanted to mirror everything you’ve written there from experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azeem Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, SirBalon said: I have a friend from Iran (very affluent and very well off) who comes into the categories you’ve just written... He definitely doesn’t associate himself at all with the rest of the Middle East and I won’t repeat what he says here on this forum because it’s not apt for consumption. I just wanted to mirror everything you’ve written there from experience... Well Iranian's that left that the country after the revolution are mostly like that. They are not Muslims either. I can't say how much a person living in Iran behaves like that. I visit a Persian football forum it mostly has Iranian expats. I read a lot of thing there and i know what youre saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Persians from my experience tend to be of a similar culture to the Greco roman Mediterranean. They love a party and are lively expressive souls. Where as the rest of the Middle East has been overrun with Arabs hence the spread of Islam & stoic miserable nature from the desert Bedouin types. Culturally it’s interesting because we’ve got to a point where the Middle East and by that I mean (Northern Africa, Arabian peninsula, Asia Minor Upto Bactria and the Hindu Kush mountains) were 100 years ago under the caliphate and the Ottoman Empire. The dissolution of that has exposed all the ethnic tensions which are surfacing as nation states start to form. It’s very much how I imagine Europe was after the collapse of the Roman Empire. History is so cyclical, it’s why I love the topic. I’d love it if Iran modernised and sacked off the Shah I’d love to go and have a look around, there’s some absolutely beautiful landscapes to explore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 53 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said: I’d love it if Iran modernised and sacked off the Shah I’d love to go and have a look around, there’s some absolutely beautiful landscapes to explore. You must mean the Supreme Leader... because they sacked off the Shah and then unmodernised (at least in my opinion) lol. Yeah Iran looks pretty fucking great. My mum and my sister went last year, it was my mum's first time back since 1979. I didn't go - but I really wish I could have gone. Tehran looks a great city, Persepolis is a historically significant site, Isfahan looks gorgeous. But as to how Persians view the Middle East & the routine meddling in foreign affairs and whatnot... I don't think they're any different to the vast majority of the people in the Middle East. Pretty much every different ethnic group has some ethnic tensions between them and they all think they're fucking superior. It's an old-school and stupid mentality. But it's pretty rife in the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairy In Boots Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said: You must mean the Supreme Leader... because they sacked off the Shah and then unmodernised (at least in my opinion) lol. Yeah Iran looks pretty fucking great. My mum and my sister went last year, it was my mum's first time back since 1979. I didn't go - but I really wish I could have gone. Tehran looks a great city, Persepolis is a historically significant site, Isfahan looks gorgeous. But as to how Persians view the Middle East & the routine meddling in foreign affairs and whatnot... I don't think they're any different to the vast majority of the people in the Middle East. Pretty much every different ethnic group has some ethnic tensions between them and they all think they're fucking superior. It's an old-school and stupid mentality. But it's pretty rife in the Middle East. Yes sorry I meant Supreme Leader. And the Persians are the superior people in the Middle East. It’s why there was an Islamic golden age, it was driven by the third caliphate basically being another Persian Empire who are similar in culture to Greeks. It’s doesn’t take a genius to work out when the moguls smashed through Central Asia and shattered Persian dominance of Islam thus empowering the Arabs that Islam has been in full regression ever since. It’s telling really that there’s literally been no real learning done in hundreds of years and any secular country in the region that once showed promise has gone backwards under a regressive religious regime seizing power or influx of Arabs. Who’s the two power brokers now Arabia & Iran or Persians v Arabs. Iranian modernisation and dominance of the Middle East is probably the best possible solution the world can hope for. Arabic dominance is regressive, Ataturk is great on it. Arabic influences on Eastern Asian Islam is concerning to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, Fairy In Boots said: Yes sorry I meant Supreme Leader. And the Persians are the superior people in the Middle East. It’s why there was an Islamic golden age, it was driven by the third caliphate basically being another Persian Empire who are similar in culture to Greeks. It’s doesn’t take a genius to work out when the moguls smashed through Central Asia and shattered Persian dominance of Islam thus empowering the Arabs that Islam has been in full regression ever since. It’s telling really that there’s literally been no real learning done in hundreds of years and any secular country in the region that once showed promise has gone backwards under a regressive religious regime seizing power or influx of Arabs. Who’s the two power brokers now Arabia & Iran or Persians v Arabs. Iranian modernisation and dominance of the Middle East is probably the best possible solution the world can hope for. Arabic dominance is regressive, Ataturk is great on it. Arabic influences on Eastern Asian Islam is concerning to. I don't believe that anyone is inherently better than anyone because of their nationality or ethnicity... but in this case... I'll take it lol. The Shah's biggest mistake, other than being totally shite at managing an economy and creating massive inflation that probably got more people to turn against him than he otherwise could, was the way he tried to force about being secular. Now you and I have had debates on whether or not Islam is inherently bad... but I think all religion is inherently bad, especially in extremes. The Shah did a lot to offend a lot of moderate Muslims and push them towards the open arms of hardline Shiite Fundamentalists that would ultimately create the Islamic Republic, especially by having his police going around Tehran pulling headscarves off people. I think a secular country should still be tolerant of those who want to practice religion (so long as those people aren't hurting anybody). Obviously now... there's far less religious tolerance in Iran. And a lot of the many groups that stood alongside the mullahs in 1979 for the revolution were quickly betrayed and purged from the government. And when I say purged, I mean they were rounded up and tortured and killed. I don't think I need to tell you how fucking brutal and barbaric the current regime is - the Shah was bad for the people of Iran as an authoritarian... but the Islamic Republic of Iran makes him look like a fucking saint. Right now, Iran is screaming out for modernisation. The fact the Guardian Council (12 old extra-religious hardliners men appointed by Khameini) has a say in who can/cannot run for any sort of political office puts a huge barrier on any sort of political reformation though. There are two major factions in Iran, as I'm sure you know, the hardliners and the reformists. But how much reformation can we really expect from politicians who are still largely clerics and allowed to hold office by the Guardian Council. The "democracy" in Iran is inherently undemocratic - and it's got the same problems with election rigging found in some of Iran's closest allies in Syria and Russia. So unfortunately, for us to see the sort of change we want in Iran... it's likely going to take another revolution toppling the Islamic Republic over a political movement to fundamentally change the system - because the system is rigged against that. And the regime has done a good job of consolidating power and making certain political views disappear from the scope of political discourse in the country. And I think for any revolution to be successful in Iran, it has to come within the country (because if democracy is government for the people, by the people - we can't fall into the US trap of "democracy building," which is government for the people, by the US government. I'm sure we both agree that the US fucking failed massively in Iraq and Afghanistan with that. And considering that for the last 100 years, the US/UK/Russia have all interfered with Iran's domestic politics (strangely, the US and UK are traditionally reviled for this - but Russia's been doing it the longest and they've maintained good relations with Iran, despite their crackdown on the Tudeh party and other leftists the USSR was funding in the Cold War) with disastrous results for the American people. Ultimately, it's just a very shite situation for Iranians. It's easy for us to sit on the sidelines and hope for a revolution, but we're talking about a brutal government that's got no qualms torturing and killing it's dissidents to silence them. But still, I'm hoping for a revolution that brings about a secular democracy to Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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