2017/18 FA Cup Fifth Round Match Chat - 16-19th February, 2018

[HK85]

13 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

I definitely get that point of view but it's the way things are going. In tennis you can hit an ace to win a grand slam final then have to wait for Hawkeye to check that it was in. In rugby you can score a try and have to wait for confirmation from the video referee. In F1 I remember Lewis Hamilton winning a race in 2008 and celebrating on the podium only to later have the win taken off him after officials reviewed the evidence and handed him a penalty. 

All those other sports are the utter pits so let's not go down that route. 

[Marc]

The best part of football is the euphoria of celebrating a goal, but how can you ever celebrate a goal the same if you know it’s going to be scrutinised by VAR?

I honestly think it’d kill my enthusiasm for the game and stop me attending matches. I’d probably watch more non league football instead. 

[Marc]

I also don’t care if the decisions are right or wrong or how quick it happens. I don’t want VAR. I want to be able to go fucking mental when Norwich score a goal.

 

Imagine scoring the last minute winner against Ipswich as we did but you couldn’t celebrate it properly. Fuck VAR

[Smiley Culture]

Another two VAR decisions called correctly by the referee, well done to him. 

[Marc]

Just had a look at this again. First goal disallowed that was never a foul, both were tugging each others shirts and if anything Llorente got his shirt pulled first. Really weird that people think it's a foul, it seems to be pro VAR weirdos that are determined to prove this little experiment is working when it clearly isn't.

As for the Son penalty by the laws of the game the penalty should've stood. The law as below states the stop has to be at the end of the run up, in Son's case he took another 2 steps after he stopped.

 

This is I assume what you're not allowed to do:

 

[Smiley Culture]

18 minutes ago, Marc said:

Just had a look at this again. First goal disallowed that was never a foul, both were tugging each others shirts and if anything Llorente got his shirt pulled first. Really weird that people think it's a foul, it seems to be pro VAR weirdos that are determined to prove this little experiment is working when it clearly isn't.

As for the Son penalty by the laws of the game the penalty should've stood. The law as below states the stop has to be at the end of the run up, in Son's case he took another 2 steps after he stopped.

 

This is I assume what you're not allowed to do:

 

Opinions, their like arseholes.

The ref’s opinion was no goal for the Llorente incident and I can see why. If the goal was given, I could understand that as well. It was a bit of a 50/50 in the sense that both were having a go at each other and the referee sided with the defending player. That’s not a fault of VAR though. The game is still under interpretation from the match official when it comes to VAR and that should be remembered and not used as a stick to beat VAR. 

[Bluewolf]

I can see why it becomes frustrating for all concerned when VAR is used too much, Its like the refs are either slightly over using it or being forced to overuse it.. It was supposed to be used to help with really difficult calls but don't tell me that VAR was needed to make a judgement call on Son when he took that penalty??? A ref could have made that call without that.. he was standing right there

[Marc]

9 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Opinions, their like arseholes.

The ref’s opinion was no goal for the Llorente incident and I can see why. If the goal was given, I could understand that as well. It was a bit of a 50/50 in the sense that both were having a go at each other and the referee sided with the defending player. That’s not a fault of VAR though. The game is still under interpretation from the match official when it comes to VAR and that should be remembered and not used as a stick to beat VAR. 

We can have opinions afterwards, but the ref and VAR officials are not there to give opinions, they are there to apply the laws of the game. The Son penalty by the laws of the game should've been a goal, that surely isn't up for debate.

 

And isn't VAR meant to only overule decisions when there was a clear and obvious mistake? ie the first goal was not a clear and obvious mistake it was a '50/50' (no foul)

[Smiley Culture]

25 minutes ago, Marc said:

We can have opinions afterwards, but the ref and VAR officials are not there to give opinions, they are there to apply the laws of the game. The Son penalty by the laws of the game should've been a goal, that surely isn't up for debate.

 

And isn't VAR meant to only overule decisions when there was a clear and obvious mistake? ie the first goal was not a clear and obvious mistake it was a '50/50' (no foul)

Not really sure why you’re piss is boiling over a penalty? It didn’t matter about the outcome in the end. They’re obviously trying to clamp down on it and the referee adjudged it to be against the laws of the game. He’s human, he can get things wrong (isn’t this the point of why people are so against VAR? They want errors). 

Again, that last point is the referee’s interpretation of the incident. He saw foul, others might not have overruled. 

I’m not sure why VAR is getting the blame here. It’s not a faultless system and it probably needs tweaks but ultimately, the referee has the final say and errors will occur. 

[Marc]

18 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

Not really sure why you’re piss is boiling over a penalty? It didn’t matter about the outcome in the end. They’re obviously trying to clamp down on it and the referee adjudged it to be against the laws of the game. He’s human, he can get things wrong (isn’t this the point of why people are so against VAR? They want errors). 

Again, that last point is the referee’s interpretation of the incident. He saw foul, others might not have overruled. 

I’m not sure why VAR is getting the blame here. It’s not a faultless system and it probably needs tweaks but ultimately, the referee has the final say and errors will occur. 

I couldn't give a fuck about the outcome of the game  the debate is over VAR

You don't seem to understand that the ref is there to apply the laws of the game, not interpret them as he sees fit. VAR is getting the blame because not only is it shit and kills the game but it has also came to the wrong decisions, again.

I guess from what storts said you don't go to games? There's a clear split between supporters that attend matches being anti VAR and 'football fans' that don't attend matches being pro VAR.

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Marc said:

I couldn't give a fuck about the outcome of the game  the debate is over VAR

You don't seem to understand that the ref is there to apply the laws of the game, not interpret them as he sees fit. VAR is getting the blame because not only is it shit and kills the game but it has also came to the wrong decisions, again.

I guess from what storts said you don't go to games? There's a clear split between supporters that attend matches being anti VAR and fans that don't attend matches being pro VAR.

 I attend matches and am pro-VAR. It really isn't cut and dry as 'attend and be anti-VAR or don't attend and be pro-VAR'  

1 hour ago, Marc said:

We can have opinions afterwards, but the ref and VAR officials are not there to give opinions, they are there to apply the laws of the game. The Son penalty by the laws of the game should've been a goal, that surely isn't up for debate.

 

And isn't VAR meant to only overule decisions when there was a clear and obvious mistake? ie the first goal was not a clear and obvious mistake it was a '50/50' (no foul)

Correct.

But this works both ways. If the referee didn't award Lamela's goal because he's seen Llorente pull the defender's shirt, then it wouldn't be over-turned.

Alternatively, if the referee did award the goal and thought Llorente's shirt-pull was neither here not there, then the goal would have stood. Hence no clear and obvious error. The decision (or lack of in whatever case) stems from the on-field referee and then VAR is there to check if a clear and obvious error has been made. 

[Marc]

11 minutes ago, Stan said:

 I attend matches and am pro-VAR. It really isn't cut and dry as 'attend and be anti-VAR or don't attend and be pro-VAR'  

 

? That isn't what I said, but from what I've seen and read there is a clear split, which is what I did say.

Have you thought about how VAR will change celebrating a goal? it'll never be the same again.

11 minutes ago, Stan said:

Correct.

But this works both ways. If the referee didn't award Lamela's goal because he's seen Llorente pull the defender's shirt, then it wouldn't be over-turned.

Alternatively, if the referee did award the goal and thought Llorente's shirt-pull was neither here not there, then the goal would have stood. Hence no clear and obvious error. The decision (or lack of in whatever case) stems from the on-field referee and then VAR is there to check if a clear and obvious error has been made. 

So what did the ref originally give a free kick or a goal? I thought he gave a goal which would mean the Llorente 'shirt pull' was deemed a clear and obvious error that the ref missed.

Bt Sport did a poll and 7000 people voted and 78% said they thought the goal should've stood. That doesn't necessarily mean it should have but shows the majority are on my wave length.

 

 

 

 

[Storts]

Marc is hitting the nail on the head.

I love my manager - Pochettino just gets it.

Mauricio Pochettino has slammed VAR as "embarrassing" following a sequence of controversial decisions during the #thfc match last night.

Pochettino: "I am so happy because the job is done and we are in the quarter-final. That was our objective, but the first-half was a little bit embarrassing for everyone."

Pochettino: "I think it is difficult to keep focus on playing football. I am not sure that that system is going to help. I love the football as football was born. That is why we love the game that we know."

Pochettino: "I think football, we are talking about emotion, the context of emotion. If we are going to kill the emotion then the fans, the people who love football, I do not think are so happy about what they saw today.

 

 

 

 

[Smiley Culture]

44 minutes ago, Marc said:

I couldn't give a fuck about the outcome of the game  the debate is over VAR

You don't seem to understand that the ref is there to apply the laws of the game, not interpret them as he sees fit. VAR is getting the blame because not only is it shit and kills the game but it has also came to the wrong decisions, again.

I guess from what storts said you don't go to games? There's a clear split between supporters that attend matches being anti VAR and 'football fans' that don't attend matches being pro VAR.

It’s not “as a referee sees fit” though, it’s his interpretation of the incidents in accordance to the laws of the game. The referee saw foul last night for Llorente’s “goal”, others didn’t. Ultimately, as with every decision, it was down to the opinion of the referee that he disallowed the goal. That isn’t the fault of VAR. 

The ‘wrong decisions’ as you say aren’t necessarily as a result of VAR, though, those errors (in your opinion) are as a result of the referee’s performance, which is a completely different argument. You could rewatch last night’s game and pick out numerous events where the referee got something wrong, that isn’t VAR’s fault.

I’ve never met Storts, so I’m not sure how he can tell you how often I attend games. I watch Football regularly, not that I should have to say that, and I’m pro VAR. 

I’m also a massive fan of it because it boils piss. 

[Marc]

The incorrect decisions add fuel to my fire and help my argument, but if VAR got every decision correct, every time I still wouldn't want it.

 

I want emotion, I want to be able to go mental when we score a goal. I don't want goals to be celebrated halfheartedly like a try in rugby or a wicket in cricket. Fuck that.

[Smiley Culture]

14 minutes ago, Marc said:

The incorrect decisions add fuel to my fire and help my argument, but if VAR got every decision correct, every time I still wouldn't want it.

 

I want emotion, I want to be able to go mental when we score a goal. I don't want goals to be celebrated halfheartedly like a try in rugby or a wicket in cricket. Fuck that.

No, it doesn’t add any fuel to any argument from anyone ‘Pro’ or ‘Anti’ VAR. Ultimately, it’s always a human behind the decision making process and even with a video replay system, some footage, similar to last night’s Llorente decision, will be inconclusive and some will be left aggrieved. It’s not like we have a super computer or something equally as insane with a 99.99% success rate. We have humans making decisions.

Every goal won’t be going to VAR though so there will be more than enough time to “go mental” and I’m sure you would go mental if Norwich City scored a VAR-assisted goal to beat Ipswich Town in the 96th minute.

It’s a poor argument that emotion will be sucked out of Football from VAR. Football is an emotive game anyway and there will still be countless emotive moments within a 90-minute period without the use of VAR. 

[Marc]

6 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

No, it doesn’t add any fuel to any argument from anyone ‘Pro’ or ‘Anti’ VAR. Ultimately, it’s always a human behind the decision making process and even with a video replay system, some footage, similar to last night’s Llorente decision, will be inconclusive and some will be left aggrieved. It’s not like we have a super computer or something equally as insane with a 99.99% success rate. We have humans making decisions.

Every goal won’t be going to VAR though so there will be more than enough time to “go mental” and I’m sure you would go mental if Norwich City scored a VAR-assisted goal to beat Ipswich Town in the 96th minute.

It’s a poor argument that emotion will be sucked out of Football from VAR. Football is an emotive game anyway and there will still be countless emotive moments within a 90-minute period without the use of VAR. 

Of course it adds to the argument. If VAR is causing delays to games and still getting decisions wrong then what is the point in it?

Every goal could potentially go through VAR though, when the ball hits the back of the net you can't celebrate the same.

I'm not sure you'll ever understand the point about celebrating goals, as from from what you said, you don't regularly attend matches.

[Smiley Culture]

2 minutes ago, Marc said:

Of course it adds to the argument. If VAR is causing delays to games and still getting decisions wrong then what is the point in it?

Every goal could potentially go through VAR though, when the ball hits the back of the net you can't celebrate the same.

I'm not sure you'll ever understand the point about celebrating goals, as from from what you said, you don't regularly attend matches.

You’re never going to get a 100% success rate with a human making decisions. Come on mate, you can’t use that as a valid argument. 

Excuse me? How can “I attend football matches regularly” be turned into “I don’t regularly attend matches”? That makes no fucking sense. 

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

The incorrect decisions add fuel to my fire and help my argument, but if VAR got every decision correct, every time I still wouldn't want it.

 

I want emotion, I want to be able to go mental when we score a goal. I don't want goals to be celebrated halfheartedly like a try in rugby or a wicket in cricket. Fuck that.

they're not  

[HK85]

Can agree with the correlation between those in favour of VAR and not going the match. They're all nerds that take an interest in stuff like xG as well. 

[Storts]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

Of course it adds to the argument. If VAR is causing delays to games and still getting decisions wrong then what is the point in it?

Every goal could potentially go through VAR though, when the ball hits the back of the net you can't celebrate the same.

I'm not sure you'll ever understand the point about celebrating goals, as from from what you said, you don't regularly attend matches.

Yeah every goal is checked, watched the game back and Foy said every goal is automatically reviewed with VAR.

Its just not nonsense to suggest it doesn’t effect the emotive aspect of football. Pochettino is spot on.

Ask Smiley when the last time he went to Orient was. 

[Burning Gold]

3 hours ago, Marc said:

I thought he gave a goal which would mean the Llorente 'shirt pull' was deemed a clear and obvious error that the ref missed.

It was? Llorente clearly pulled the defender's shirt, which is against the laws of the game. I'm really baffled by the outrage over a decision that's clearly correct.

Pochettino's talking out of his arse yet again. Fans in every other sport celebrate moments (tries, TDs, wickets, whatever) as they happen even though they're about to be reviewed, but somehow football is different? What, are football fans more level-headed and less emotional than fans of other sports? Absolute nonsense

[Marc]

11 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

It was? Llorente clearly pulled the defender's shirt, which is against the laws of the game. I'm really baffled by the outrage over a decision that's clearly correct.

Pochettino's talking out of his arse yet again. Fans in every other sport celebrate moments (tries, TDs, wickets, whatever) as they happen even though they're about to be reviewed, but somehow football is different? What, are football fans more level-headed and less emotional than fans of other sports? Absolute nonsense

I've seen it from one angle which is the video on the BT sport twitter feed and both are grabbing each others shirts at the same time when he camera goes to Llorente and the defender. Show me a video or screenshot where you can see Llorente grabbing the Rochdale defenders shirt and not the other way round.

As said before 78% of people think it was the wrong decision, you are in the vast minority. 

I'm not sure Liverpool fans can look at Tottenham penalties with a clear mind after the meltdown the other week.

[Burning Gold]

47 minutes ago, Marc said:

I've seen it from one angle which is the video on the BT sport twitter feed and both are grabbing each others shirts at the same time when he camera goes to Llorente and the defender. Show me a video or screenshot where you can see Llorente grabbing the Rochdale defenders shirt and not the other way round.

As said before 78% of people think it was the wrong decision, you are in the vast minority. 

I'm not sure Liverpool fans can look at Tottenham penalties with a clear mind after the meltdown the other week.

Lucky we're not talking about a penalty then, isn't it?

I couldn't care less if I'm in the minority (not that a Twitter poll is an accurate representative sample), I'm right

[HK85]

58 minutes ago, Burning Gold said:

It was? Llorente clearly pulled the defender's shirt, which is against the laws of the game. I'm really baffled by the outrage over a decision that's clearly correct.

Pochettino's talking out of his arse yet again. Fans in every other sport celebrate moments (tries, TDs, wickets, whatever) as they happen even though they're about to be reviewed, but somehow football is different? What, are football fans more level-headed and less emotional than fans of other sports? Absolute nonsense

Yes, football is different.