What is Wrong With Argentina?

[ScoRoss]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

I reckon this is one of those situations where they'll become loads better without Messi because they're not shoehorning a team in around one player.

#EwingTheory

[El Profesor]

Messi is and always will be the main topic for Argentina as long as he defending his national team, but the focus on him ends up overshadowing deep structural problems in argentinian football. 

Argentina is a great football nation with an amazing history and football structure, but in my opinion they´re suffering for not taking the development of youth players seriously.  In the 90s, Argentina had a project and a great football mind in José Pékerman to direct their under-17 and under-20 teams. It was not a coincidence that Argentina won the U-20 World Cup in 1995, 1997 and 2001, with names such as Juan Pablo Sorín, Walter Samuel, Esteban Cambiasso, Pablo Aimar,  Juan Román Riquelme, Maxi Rodríguez appearing in the scene.

That still carried away until 2007, but since then, Argentina´s results at the youth level have been embarassing. They haven´t qualified for U-20 World Cup in 2009 and 2013, and they were eliminated in the group stage in 2015 and 2017. From 2013 to 2016, Humberto Grondona, son of Julio Grondona, directed their youth teams teams. In 2016, at the Rio Olympics they were eliminated by Honduras in the group stage.

If you take a close look at the argentinian midfield and defence corps, this is not a group up to the historical standards of Argentina. Obviously they have Messi and other big names in the attack, but overall this is not a very good squad. I think the last great group of players Argentina had was in 2006, perhaps 2010?  Uruguay and Venezuela (yes, I´m not joking) recently have been doing a much better job than Argentina at the youth level. 

My hope is that with the creation of the Superliga Argentina, the clubs will be strenghtened and there will be more money invested in the youth level. 

@SirBalon

 

[Berserker]

3 hours ago, El Profesor said:

Messi is and always will be the main topic for Argentina as long as he defending his national team, but the focus on him ends up overshadowing deep structural problems in argentinian football. 

Argentina is a great football nation with an amazing history and football structure, but in my opinion they´re suffering for not taking the development of youth players seriously.  In the 90s, Argentina had a project and a great football mind in José Pékerman to direct their under-17 and under-20 teams. It was not a coincidence that Argentina won the U-20 World Cup in 1995, 1997 and 2001, with names such as Juan Pablo Sorín, Walter Samuel, Esteban Cambiasso, Pablo Aimar,  Juan Román Riquelme, Maxi Rodríguez appearing in the scene.

That still carried away until 2007, but since then, Argentina´s results at the youth level have been embarassing. They haven´t qualified for U-20 World Cup in 2009 and 2013, and they were eliminated in the group stage in 2015 and 2017. From 2013 to 2016, Humberto Grondona, son of Julio Grondona, directed their youth teams teams. In 2016, at the Rio Olympics they were eliminated by Honduras in the group stage.

If you take a close look at the argentinian midfield and defence corps, this is not a group up to the historical standards of Argentina. Obviously they have Messi and other big names in the attack, but overall this is not a very good squad. I think the last great group of players Argentina had was in 2006, perhaps 2010?  Uruguay and Venezuela (yes, I´m not joking) recently have been doing a much better job than Argentina at the youth level. 

My hope is that with the creation of the Superliga Argentina, the clubs will be strenghtened and there will be more money invested in the youth level. 

@SirBalon

 

Great post Ricardinho, my thoughts exactly.

[SirBalon]

5 hours ago, El Profesor said:

Messi is and always will be the main topic for Argentina as long as he defending his national team, but the focus on him ends up overshadowing deep structural problems in argentinian football. 

Argentina is a great football nation with an amazing history and football structure, but in my opinion they´re suffering for not taking the development of youth players seriously.  In the 90s, Argentina had a project and a great football mind in José Pékerman to direct their under-17 and under-20 teams. It was not a coincidence that Argentina won the U-20 World Cup in 1995, 1997 and 2001, with names such as Juan Pablo Sorín, Walter Samuel, Esteban Cambiasso, Pablo Aimar,  Juan Román Riquelme, Maxi Rodríguez appearing in the scene.

That still carried away until 2007, but since then, Argentina´s results at the youth level have been embarassing. They haven´t qualified for U-20 World Cup in 2009 and 2013, and they were eliminated in the group stage in 2015 and 2017. From 2013 to 2016, Humberto Grondona, son of Julio Grondona, directed their youth teams teams. In 2016, at the Rio Olympics they were eliminated by Honduras in the group stage.

If you take a close look at the argentinian midfield and defence corps, this is not a group up to the historical standards of Argentina. Obviously they have Messi and other big names in the attack, but overall this is not a very good squad. I think the last great group of players Argentina had was in 2006, perhaps 2010?  Uruguay and Venezuela (yes, I´m not joking) recently have been doing a much better job than Argentina at the youth level. 

My hope is that with the creation of the Superliga Argentina, the clubs will be strenghtened and there will be more money invested in the youth level. 

@SirBalon

 

Great post mate!  

[ScoRoss]

 

[Guest]

I have to agree with Spike on the whole Messi's friends thing. It's something I've been saying for 3 years now. The whole selection process is really fickle, the fact Armani is about to get his first cap when he's been Argentina's best keeper for a long time is a disgrace. Messi not being on the team could be a good or a bad thing. You could redo the whole team for the new process or you could risk losing the best player in the world.

[ScoRoss]

Lucas Biglia and Javier Mascherano have already announced retirement from International football. Hopefully, this will free the way for a younger, quicker and more dynamic midfield to take shape before the Copa America. Leandro Paredes is the first figure that springs to mind.

[Stan]

16 minutes ago, ScoRoss said:

Lucas Biglia and Javier Mascherano have already announced retirement from International football. Hopefully, this will free the way for a younger, quicker and more dynamic midfield to take shape before the Copa America. Leandro Paredes is the first figure that springs to mind.

He and Lo Celso can take over.

[The Artful Dodger]

I really hope Messi doesn't retire, even if it looks like there will be no honours for his efforts. Argentina are on the brink of a generation with no stand out players, certainly not to the standard we are used to. They could do with him sticking around, guiding younger players and helping to mould a team. 

[RandoEFC+]

I think they've redeemed themselves to an extent. Now you'd say they put up a good fight before going out despite having a weak squad by their standards. You wouldn't have said that after Croatia.

They look like England a few years ago. Need someone to come in and instil a fresh perspective. Whether Messi is a part of that remains to be seen. I don't think he should be exempt from criticism for his international achievements due to the players around him. At the same time you can't make sweeping judgements about his career based on this or any international tournament.

[Berserker]

1 hour ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

They lack a true leader and a proper coach. Time for that fat tatted up clown to fuck off and let Schelotto take over. I could go back and search the Argentina new coach thread were I predicted this catastrophe. Completely against the appointment of that fat tatted up clown just like the great Carlos bilardo:

Si bien en un principio, hace un par de años, Bilardo defendía y respaldaba al casildense, la banca no se mantuvo. Y en esta ocasión al "Doctor" le consultaron sobre Sampaoli y este respondió sin pelos en la lengua: "Háblenme de técnicos en serio, pero no de un técnico de cuarta. Tienen que hablarme de Beckenbauer, hasta de Menotti, pero no de cualquiera como este Don Paoli".
Tal fue su "enojo" que hasta mencionó por encima de Jorge Sampaoli a César Luis Menotti, entrenador de la otra vereda con quien protagonizaba dos distintas corrientes de fútbol como el "bilardismo" y "menottismo".
Además en su programa radial "La hora de Bilardo", exseleccionador contó que "Sampaoli no sirve para nada y sólo es amigo de dos o tres periodistas chilenos que le dieron cuerda". Incluso se animó a postular al "Pelado" Díaz, recientemente campeón del fútbol de Arabia Saudita, para la Selección Argentina. "Ramón ya estuvo en las quinielas para dirigir al seleccionado. Demostró en River que es un técnico ganador".
Y por último, refiriéndose a Jorge Sampaoli, redoblando la apuesta Carlos Bilardo avisó: "¿Ustedes dicen que va a ser el técnico de la Selección? Ya lo veremos. Si viene a Argentina me tomo un barco y me voy a Uruguay".

Teso and bilardo tried to warn y'all. 

Let Schelotto take over and send Messi back to the only culture/country he gives a fuck about, Spain or better yet, Catalonia

Schelotto?, he's one of the worst managers i have ever seen, not even Boca fans like him.

[Guest]

I thought the same thing, Schelotto has been carried by a good team and still almost bottled the title. I hate to admit it but I think Gareca is the clear candidate to take over. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

They lack a true leader and a proper coach. Time for that fat tatted up clown to fuck off and let Schelotto take over. I could go back and search the Argentina new coach thread were I predicted this catastrophe. Completely against the appointment of that fat tatted up clown just like the great Carlos bilardo:

Si bien en un principio, hace un par de años, Bilardo defendía y respaldaba al casildense, la banca no se mantuvo. Y en esta ocasión al "Doctor" le consultaron sobre Sampaoli y este respondió sin pelos en la lengua: "Háblenme de técnicos en serio, pero no de un técnico de cuarta. Tienen que hablarme de Beckenbauer, hasta de Menotti, pero no de cualquiera como este Don Paoli".
Tal fue su "enojo" que hasta mencionó por encima de Jorge Sampaoli a César Luis Menotti, entrenador de la otra vereda con quien protagonizaba dos distintas corrientes de fútbol como el "bilardismo" y "menottismo".
Además en su programa radial "La hora de Bilardo", exseleccionador contó que "Sampaoli no sirve para nada y sólo es amigo de dos o tres periodistas chilenos que le dieron cuerda". Incluso se animó a postular al "Pelado" Díaz, recientemente campeón del fútbol de Arabia Saudita, para la Selección Argentina. "Ramón ya estuvo en las quinielas para dirigir al seleccionado. Demostró en River que es un técnico ganador".
Y por último, refiriéndose a Jorge Sampaoli, redoblando la apuesta Carlos Bilardo avisó: "¿Ustedes dicen que va a ser el técnico de la Selección? Ya lo veremos. Si viene a Argentina me tomo un barco y me voy a Uruguay".

Teso and bilardo tried to warn y'all. 

Let Schelotto take over and send Messi back to the only culture/country he gives a fuck about, Spain or better yet, Catalonia

To be fair you wanted Bianchi and Basile as manager ffs, that's about 100 times worse than Sampaoli

[Cicero]

Lo Celso needs to leave PSG and find first team football

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

That's an assumption, just like your failed assumption (along with others here) that sampaoli was the right man.. It turned out to be the worst appointment LIKE TESO predicted, not assumed. You got a lot to learn boy, no wonder ur tweets average about 1.5 likes.

There is levels to this shit son and  it looks like your still stuck on the tutorial part. Have a nice day 

 

Could have been a failed assumption but the chances of Bianchi and Basile succeeding now at Argentina are almost nil, Sampaoli at the very least had something about him.

[Berserker]

1 minute ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

Higuain continues to be the bust he was at real Madrid. Re-watch the CL final and you will notice why benzema was picked over El pipita... You always Wana blame he was alone up front or the passes/ball didn't come to him but that's because he is a lazy fuck that lacks what makes benzema so great, the constant movement around to open up space or draw players away. Shame he missed the world cup

What the fuck are you talking about you complete mong? Higuain outscored Benzema when he wasn't injured and when they were given about the same game time. Florentino preferred Benzema because he bought him himself unlike Higuain which was bought by the past president, but still Higuain took his spot and sat him in the bench when he arrived and he was always better except for the injuries. Higuain also has much better stats for the NT than the baldy. And it's Benzema who's the lazy one, Higuain always puts the team goals above his own and sacrifices himself a lot to help the team rather than have the team playing for him to score. You can watch some of Juve's games this past season if you don't wanna take my word.

And besides, what the fuck do Higuain and Benzema have to do with that quote or anything for that matter?

[SirBalon]

18 minutes ago, Blue said:

Could have been a failed assumption but the chances of Bianchi and Basile succeeding now at Argentina are almost nil, Sampaoli at the very least had something about him.

Id be very surprised is Jorge Sampaoli is permitted to continue. He's become a puppet... Some of the clips they've been showing in Italian tv this evening where he's asking players whether or not to make certain substitutions won't help him either. Argentina need a clean out and I'm gonna be controversial... Messi needs to either retire from the NT or they need to let him go so they can suffer the transition properly.

Mascherano retired from international football this evening. That's a start.

[Spike]

2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

I really hope Messi doesn't retire, even if it looks like there will be no honours for his efforts. Argentina are on the brink of a generation with no stand out players, certainly not to the standard we are used to. They could do with him sticking around, guiding younger players and helping to mould a team. 

? 

Dybala, Icardi, Pavon, Lo Celso, Martinez, are all fantastic players. Argentina have a great crop of younger players.

[Spike]

Benzema is atrocious. A literal moron that blamed racism for his exile for Le Bleus and not his shit form and attitude. The sport in a while will be better when he fucks of from it.

[The Artful Dodger]

4 minutes ago, Spike said:

? 

Dybala, Icardi, Pavon, Lo Celso, Martinez, are all fantastic players. Argentina have a great crop of younger players.

In comparison to the past 20 years that list is not very inspiring. Messi can drop to become a genuine midfielder and have dybala play behind Icardi or Higuain. 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, The Artful Dodger said:

In comparison to the past 20 years that list is not very inspiring. Messi can drop to become a genuine midfielder and have dybala play behind Icardi or Higuain. 

Icardi is probably their best CF since Batistuta and Dybala is magic, Argentina has been riddled with selection issues for years. Messi has never played that well as a midfielder and as long as he plays for Argentina they can’t be a team, they’ll be Messi + 10 others.

The new crop doesn’t have a decade of media hounding and failure under their belts. 

[SirBalon]

7 minutes ago, Spike said:

Icardi is probably their best CF since Batistuta and Dybala is magic, Argentina has been riddled with selection issues for years. Messi has never played that well as a midfielder and as long as he plays for Argentina they can’t be a team, they’ll be Messi + 10 others.

The new crop doesn’t have a decade of media hounding and failure under their belts. 

In my opinion Messi has all the qualities to be the best creative midfielder in the world. That’s part of what makes him the greatest player on earth. He can so so many things as the best. 

[Spike]

Just now, SirBalon said:

In my opinion Messi has all the qualities to be the best creative midfielder in the world. That’s part of what makes him the greatest player on earth. He can so so many things as the best. 

I know but that doesn’t mean he has done well in that position so far. I’m not arguing his quality or ability at all. I think going for goal himself is too ingrained in his style to be as effective as other creators. Besides he isn’t competent enough defensively to be a CM and the old school #10 is dead. Unless of course it comes back in fashion 

[SirBalon]

1 minute ago, Spike said:

I know but that doesn’t mean he has done well in that position so far. I’m not arguing his quality or ability at all. I think going for goal himself is too ingrained in his style to be as effective as other creators. Besides he isn’t competent enough defensively to be a CM and the old school #10 is dead. Unless of course it comes back in fashion 

Don’t get me wrong... Even though anything Argentina have achieved (three finals) with also qualification to participate in this very World Cup and anything positive (not much) during the tournament is down to him. For Argentina’s sake and a transition, Messi should quit international football. I said it further up in a previous post and even though it may be controversial, it’s probably for the best. 

[Spike]

1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

Don’t get me wrong... Even though anything Argentina have achieved (three finals) with also qualification to participate in this very World Cup and anything positive (not much) during the tournament is down to him. For Argentina’s sake and a transition, Messi should quit international football. I said it further up in a previous post and even though it may be controversial, it’s probably for the best. 

I agree, because I said the same thing! When Messi plays he brings baggage unfortunately. Probably without realising it players don’t give it there all because they have ‘Messi’.