Subscriber Storts+ 2,424 Posted April 17, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted April 17, 2018 9 hours ago, Dan said: I think a lot of it is over your players rather than club. I was seeing comments calling you genuine CL contenders because of your result in Turin and I just read it thinking.... really? They aren't even through this yet. Sure enough, out you went. I do agree on Liverpool and have noticed it a lot myself this year. Liverpool get as much crap off fans as any club in the country, but in the media I agree they get an easy ride. I totally agree about your point about being bottlers. I think the way you threw points away at home to West Brom, away at Chelsea, and then next year away at West Ham is where a lot of it stems from. If you bottled the title, surely Man Utd did this weekend using that same metric? It amazes me how many of our fans call you bottlers. There was obviously needle that season, but calling you bottlers actually plays down our own achievement. I find it backwards. Yeah - you're right, although you just need to look at comments like Cicero's earlier about our squad to see that it's not just a media perception. I agree - that was over the top. However at the same time I look at it now as a massive missed opportunity. We really could have gone a long way in this competition. We've smashed Real Madrid already this season, we've smashed Liverpool already this season. Roma are on our level too. The opportunity was there for the taking as we missed out. Yeah - the West Brom one was big that year, the Chelsea one I don't agree with. They were still a quality side that raised their game against us and the league had already gone then. In actually fact the games we actually 'bottled' were West Ham away and Arsenal at home in the space of four day. We actually could have gone top but lost at West Ham, and then drew with 10 man Arsenal. People don't realise it or remember but that for me is where that season went wrong. Last year we were never in it at all, Chelsea were run away leaders. It really annoys me that we get stick for that West Ham game. We had a record breaking run in for us - we were on exceptional form, and lost one game against a team that always raises it against us. We got ludicrous stick for that which was completely unwarranted. And yes that's the same point I always say. Seems bizarre to play down your own achievements when you did so well to win it. As I said you only gave us one sniff at the top spot, that was that week with WH/Arsenal - and after that we didn't get close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 22 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: We don’t, we just enable ourselves to spend big by managing our money better. So in other words; 'spend more'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Spike said: So in other words; 'spend more'? If you look at both clubs financial reports only regarding transfers then no, we don’t spend more. In fact we spend less. We only buy well because we sell well. What is it you don’t understand? Do you only take money spent into consideration? If so that’s why you’re wrong. Since Klopp took over our transfer business has been almost impeccable. Not only has he improved the squad 10 fold, he’s actually done it whilst making a profit. That’s by being smart when selling players and then reinvesting. He’s actually took Rodgers team and got it to where it is now and not only that, he’s made the club a profit. Amazing isn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 People taking these things seriously need their head checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 7 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: If you look at both clubs financial reports only regarding transfers then no, we don’t spend more. In fact we spend less. We only buy well because we sell well. What is it you don’t understand? Do you only take money spent into consideration? If so that’s why you’re wrong. Since Klopp took over our transfer business has been almost impeccable. Not only has he improved the squad 10 fold, he’s actually done it whilst making a profit. That’s by being smart when selling players and then reinvesting. He’s actually took Rodgers team and got it to where it is now and not only that, he’s made the club a profit. Amazing isn’t it? To be fair Wenger did that for years. Its good but eventually fans will demand more. Top 4 won't be enough. Not saying he's not doing a good job though but you need to start winning things soon. I'm pretty certain klopp said he'd be disappointed if he hadn't won the title in 3 seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 4 hours ago, 6666 said: People taking these things seriously need their head checked. Its just an opinion. Don't think anyone is saying it's fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 11 hours ago, Storts said: Yeah - you're right, although you just need to look at comments like Cicero's earlier about our squad to see that it's not just a media perception. I agree - that was over the top. However at the same time I look at it now as a massive missed opportunity. We really could have gone a long way in this competition. We've smashed Real Madrid already this season, we've smashed Liverpool already this season. Roma are on our level too. The opportunity was there for the taking as we missed out. Yeah - the West Brom one was big that year, the Chelsea one I don't agree with. They were still a quality side that raised their game against us and the league had already gone then. In actually fact the games we actually 'bottled' were West Ham away and Arsenal at home in the space of four day. We actually could have gone top but lost at West Ham, and then drew with 10 man Arsenal. People don't realise it or remember but that for me is where that season went wrong. Last year we were never in it at all, Chelsea were run away leaders. It really annoys me that we get stick for that West Ham game. We had a record breaking run in for us - we were on exceptional form, and lost one game against a team that always raises it against us. We got ludicrous stick for that which was completely unwarranted. And yes that's the same point I always say. Seems bizarre to play down your own achievements when you did so well to win it. As I said you only gave us one sniff at the top spot, that was that week with WH/Arsenal - and after that we didn't get close. Anyone who thinks you should get rid of pochentino is nuts I think. You would be hard pushed to get a better manager. Best manager in the league for me. Although dyche and guardiola have done better this season in my opinion long term he is the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 4/16/2018 at 13:53, Storts said: You say that - but that's half the problem. We cannot afford to buy ready made stars - we have to try and find these gems, and unfortunately those two haven't paid off. But it's a really difficult balancing act. Moura doesn't deserve to be mentioned with those two. He's a very good player - Poch just is slow to integrate players because he expects them to be so fit. He won't do it yet though - but continue to finish top 4 and when the new stadium is up and running and increased commercial revenue then I'm sure he will. As I said it's been a long slow process but you can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. I think that's all fine and well, you've got to try to develop players rather than buy the ready made stars in some situations. But when they hit stardom... if you want to keep them, you've got to be able to loosen the purse strings and give competitive wages. There becomes a time where the wage budget at Spurs no longer becomes less of something commendable and starts becoming a hindrance... unless CL qualification and the odd cup run are the ultimate goal for Levy. But to really turn a corner, some players will need to be given the insane money that clubs generally pay the very talented. That was more in response with regard to the first bit of what you said - rather than Moura's or Poch's method of integrating players into the first team, neither of which I can really comment on without just talking bollocks so I'll take your word on those points. But yeah, loosening the purse strings can obviously be more of a financial risk if things don't pan out over the course of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 10 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: If you look at both clubs financial reports only regarding transfers then no, we don’t spend more. In fact we spend less. We only buy well because we sell well. What is it you don’t understand? Do you only take money spent into consideration? If so that’s why you’re wrong. Since Klopp took over our transfer business has been almost impeccable. Not only has he improved the squad 10 fold, he’s actually done it whilst making a profit. That’s by being smart when selling players and then reinvesting. He’s actually took Rodgers team and got it to where it is now and not only that, he’s made the club a profit. Amazing isn’t it? Yes, I am only taking money spent into consideration. It doesn't matter where the money comes from, Liverpool spend more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 50 minutes ago, Spike said: Yes, I am only taking money spent into consideration. It doesn't matter where the money comes from, Liverpool spend more! No they don’t. Liverpool sell Coutinho - £146m Liverpool buy VVD - £75m Spurs don’t buy or sell anyone. Spike logic = Liverpool spend more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick 2,271 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Spike said: Yes, I am only taking money spent into consideration. It doesn't matter where the money comes from, Liverpool spend more! I mean, isn't that how a 'normal' business works? Speculate to accumulate and all that. I think it's bizarre that you are disregarding the fact we are in a net gain since Klopp took over. Yes, we've spent plenty on players but that money has only came from selling players. It's sounds like you're implying that we are completely bankrolled, which isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 4 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: No they don’t. Liverpool sell Coutinho - £146m Liverpool buy VVD - £75m Spurs don’t buy or sell anyone. Spike logic = Liverpool spend more. Just spent 75 mill tho. Just because the income is higher doesn't mean it isnt spending lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, Spike said: Just spent 75 mill tho. Just because the income is higher doesn't mean it isnt spending lmao It doesn’t work like that. Another example: We sell Benteke and Sakho for £50m. We buy Salah and Matip as replacements for £36m We haven’t actually spent a penny, in fact we have made £14m. Unless you are a Manchester club then that’s how things usually work regarding transfers and since Klopp came in we have done a wonderful job in the transfer market. You cant simply add up what we’ve spent and totally disregard what we’ve brought in through sales when selling big is what enables us to spend big. Anyway, I’m sure you totally understand but as it doesn’t suit your argument you’ll continue to stick fingers in your ears whilst repeating ‘you spend more’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 2 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: It doesn’t work like that. Another example: We sell Benteke and Sakho for £50m. We buy Salah and Matip as replacements for £36m We haven’t actually spent a penny, in fact we have made £14m. Unless you are a Manchester club then that’s how things usually work regarding transfers and since Klopp came in we have done a wonderful job in the transfer market. You cant simply add up what we’ve spent and totally disregard what we’ve brought in through sales when selling big is what enables us to spend big. Anyway, I’m sure you totally understand but as it doesn’t suit your argument you’ll continue to stick fingers in your ears whilst repeating ‘you spend more’ I think managing to sell Benteke for the amount you did is one of the greatest feats in the history of the game. You can almost forgive the ridiculous error your board made in signing him in the first place, but redemption and more has to be given on how you got rid of him. Without a doubt your board is second to none in the Premier League where it comes to selling players at a massive mark-up in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike 5,100 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 4 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: It doesn’t work like that. Another example: We sell Benteke and Sakho for £50m. We buy Salah and Matip as replacements for £36m We haven’t actually spent a penny, in fact we have made £14m. Unless you are a Manchester club then that’s how things usually work regarding transfers and since Klopp came in we have done a wonderful job in the transfer market. You cant simply add up what we’ve spent and totally disregard what we’ve brought in through sales when selling big is what enables us to spend big. Anyway, I’m sure you totally understand but as it doesn’t suit your argument you’ll continue to stick fingers in your ears whilst repeating ‘you spend more’ Spending is spending bro, not all clubs reinvest like Liverpool do. Liverpool is a well run, luxky club but spending is still spending no matter where the cash comes from. Mate, if I sell £200 worth of stuff and buy £100 ive still spent £100, i have a £100 more but that doesnt mean i didnt spend. Money in, money out is spending. You are talking about net gain and loss which is different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,400 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 8 hours ago, LFCMadLad said: It doesn’t work like that. Another example: We sell Benteke and Sakho for £50m. We buy Salah and Matip as replacements for £36m We haven’t actually spent a penny, in fact we have made £14m. Unless you are a Manchester club then that’s how things usually work regarding transfers and since Klopp came in we have done a wonderful job in the transfer market. You cant simply add up what we’ve spent and totally disregard what we’ve brought in through sales when selling big is what enables us to spend big. Anyway, I’m sure you totally understand but as it doesn’t suit your argument you’ll continue to stick fingers in your ears whilst repeating ‘you spend more’ I want to rep you for the thought and effort behind this post but in what fucking world were they replacements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 1 hour ago, The Palace Fan said: I want to rep you for the thought and effort behind this post but in what fucking world were they replacements? Well Benteke is a forward and so is Salah and Sakho is a CB and so is Matip. It was just an example to simplify things for Spike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,180 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Spike said: Spending is spending bro, not all clubs reinvest like Liverpool do. Liverpool is a well run, luxky club but spending is still spending no matter where the cash comes from. Mate, if I sell £200 worth of stuff and buy £100 ive still spent £100, i have a £100 more but that doesnt mean i didnt spend. Money in, money out is spending. You are talking about net gain and loss which is different Maybe recently. Like very... very recently. I think the first few years under FSG were very much them finding their feet. But I think we've been pretty poorly run for decades and FSG now look to have us looking much better both on the pitch and off it. But it's not like they came in and immediately fixed all of the problems we had with the G&H leadership (who almost had us at administration) or David Moores (who was better than G&H and I believe was always well intentioned and did try to keep us ambitious... he just made mistakes & a lot of them). There's still no evidence that we are prepared to spend the kind of money we spent this season without having to sell a player first. If that extrapolates over time, we'll always struggle to progress on previous seasons as we'll have to keep selling our best players if we want to fill in the gaps in our current side. And more gaps would be in the squad when you sell off world class players (at least theoretically, I think there's a decent argument to be made though that Coutinho was not a player as ideally suited for a Klopp midfield than others - so he's not as much of a loss... but that's not always going to happen). I think a big test of our ambition will be how much we can spend without making a huge sale of one of our best players. I don't think we'll ever be able to compete with what Citeh can do, or what United have done the last few years. But while we made some expensive signings, some of our players came on absolute bargain deals (Andy Robertson in particular, but now that Karius is looking like a real keeper his value is looking quality as well). But if we can't throw around money to compete for the players that can take us to the next level without first selling, I'm not sure how much we'll realistically be able to improve. Similar to Spurs and their wage bill issue - at some point, there becomes a time where the financial stability provided might be a hindrance to trying to compete. Especially when the clubs we're primarily competing with are 2 oil money clubs and the club that paved the way for the shite soulless corporate football culture that took over England in the 90s and beyond and saw great success both in terms of titles & cash money coming its way. And we've also got Arsenal to contend with as well... and who knows if their downward slide will carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber RandoEFC+ 7,644 Posted April 27, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted April 27, 2018 Just skimmed back through this thread and realised the article has Carvalhal in the top 5? One of the worst shouts I can remember. Imagine getting sacked by Sheffield Wednesday and ending up in the top 5 Premier League managers for two fluky wins against distracted Arsenal and Liverpool sides. Pathetic journalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,400 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 15th place Roy Hodgson is on Manager of the Year shortlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebird Hewitt 1,282 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Thought this deserved a bump as the 5th best manager in the prem this season is very close to taking Swansea down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,400 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Bluebird Hewitt said: Thought this deserved a bump as the 5th best manager in the prem this season is very close to taking Swansea down. Swap him with Woy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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