Champions League Final 2018 - LIVERPOOL 1-3 REAL MADRID

[Asura]

2 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

How many CLs has Barcelona with or without Messi has won back to back? 

How many extra medals do they get for winning back to back? Last time I checked they get 0 extra medals and trophies for winning back to back CL titles... 

Now how many league titles did show pony win with real madrid in 10 years? 

[Cicero]

[Marc]

808 replies I reckon we can get this to 1000. Well said Teso

 

History will remember the 3 successive CL wins. I think they could win another couple more to take it 5 in a row and 15 in total before CR7 moves on.

[ASF]

On 5/27/2018 at 23:51, SirBalon said:

Sometimes we can take things out of context. I don’t want to belittle Real Madrid’s amazing achievement of winning 3 Champions Leagues in a row at all. Infact their achievement is even more amazing this season seeing as they’ve been very average indeed...

It’s the talk of “Legendary” coupled with “The best in a lifetime”.  Sorry but that is ridiculous and far fetched.

Let me defend myself by stating that I’ve always said that at European club level it’s the Champions League (European Cup) that is the maximum trophy a club can win and from that point is where I agree that Real Madrid’s achievement is incredible.

But football doesn’t start and finish with the Champions League. There are these things in football called seasons and within seasons you are involved in many things including the most important of all which is your national championship, called the league. Then you have your national cup (in England’s case two of those but lets forget that League Cup nonsense) which is also there to compete in.

Well in this season’s case Real Madrid almost got knocked out by a third division side (Fuenlabrada) but just about made it through to then get knocked out by the other mighty club in Madrid called Leganés... We can forgive them for that one because Real didn’t get the easiest of ties in that one and let’s be honest... The national cup isn’t the biggest priority for clubs of the stature of Real Madrid.

Then we have the slightly bigger issue of the league... Real Madrid were defending champions this season after having won their second La Liga title in 10 years... I mean, I could be being harsh and I know league titles where you have to compete for 38 games instead of 13 in a cup competition isn’t the easiest of things to achieve, but I would say that at least a mere question mark could be given as permission to debate status? But maybe I’m being biassed there because of sympathies to another set of colours. But imagine I didn’t have those sympathies! Would that add an extra bunch of kilos of weight to my argument?

The defending champions in 38 games this season ended up 17 points behind the eventual champions and in third place behind Atlético Madrid who won... What was it? Yes, the Europa League (not at all belittling Atleti’s achievement because everyone here knows I appreciate that tournament too) because Atlético Madrid were knocked out of the Champions League this season in the group stage.  I wrote that last bit but I don’t want to add the weight of value it should have and I’ll leave that bit to each individual to make a valid and fair analytical decision on.

Finally my own long post is coming to its conclusion with another point of view for those that have been brave enough to read through it...

Legendary status can sometimes or infact most times be shared by various and it doesn’t have to be exclusive to one. I say that because we have the disection to overview what infact the best could actually mean (lets forget lifetimes because there’s a before and after in everything and we have the possibility to inform ourselves) and it’s connotations in relation to the most important thing in all walks of life which is the whole thing the global picture when being cold and coming to a decision.

Barcelona have the appreciation of football fans in recent history not just because of what they’ve won but ALSO because of the brand of football they played during that period (for a large percentage of that period, not all). Add to that, the fact that although their Champions League victories have been achieved over a longer spell compared to Real Madrid, allow me to say that this can be superseded by the fact that this particular period has also included 2 trebles which means winning the league, the national cup and of course, the Champions League.

Yes... I’ve come to the conclusion with my own personal writing on this particular post that I could also add the valued argument that Barcelona are legendary and that I raise you your hand and state that the greatest team this lifetime may have seen is FC Barcelona.

A footnote of sorts at the end of it all just to add more weight to winning league titles...

Manchester United and none other than Sir Alex Ferguson together made legendary status in over 20 years working in unison mainly for winning the English league title because within that very long period there were only 2 Champions Leagues to Real Madrid’s countless in that time. I say this because we could infact credibly be debating an unknown Man Utd fan coming on here (this part is obviously hypothetical) and stating that Fergie’s period is as valuable and important as this Real Madrid side.

I repeat... I’m no mug, I value and respect Real Madrid’s achievement tremendously over these past few years, and I’m not trying to devalue it in the slightest. It’s just that...

Context is always more important than conjecture.

Sorry mate, but you're contradicting yourself there. If the CL is the maximum trophy a club can win, then how come the league is more important?

At the end of the day, nobody cares about domestic doubles, apart from fans of that specific country where it happens. On the other hand, everyone wants to know who becomes the next European champion. It was always like this.

It's just the Real Madrid anti-bias that's clouding people's judgment. 

[Cicero]

#2in10 

[Philippe Coutinho]

Facts are facts. Barcelona has consistently bested Real Madrid in recent years' head-to-head results. In other words, Barcelona is the very last club Madrid wants to face at any stage of the Champions League, even the Final.

Barcelona would never ever have gotten complacent against Madrid as they did against Roma. They play up to the (perceived) quality of their rivals. Quality that Madrid does have in abundance, I think everyone would agree.

[Devil-Dick Willie]

On 28/05/2018 at 20:08, Cannabis said:

By winning a knockout competition where you can lose games and win the second leg to go through? The Champions League has what, 14 games? The league has 38. The league is more prestigious and defines the "true" great teams.

World cup is a knockout comp where you can get fucked by Switzerland and win. Spain weren't a great team then

[SirBalon]

12 hours ago, ASF said:

Sorry mate, but you're contradicting yourself there. If the CL is the maximum trophy a club can win, then how come the league is more important?

At the end of the day, nobody cares about domestic doubles, apart from fans of that specific country where it happens. On the other hand, everyone wants to know who becomes the next European champion. It was always like this.

It's just the Real Madrid anti-bias that's clouding people's judgment. 

André my friend (you know I aprreciate your friendship)... There's a reason why I didn't directly quote you and that is because I read this sort of stuff everyday on social media and I know you're not one of those types at all and it surprised me to read that from you with a swipe at Barcelona. People don't have to like an entity to respect their achievements and to say what Real Madrid have achieved over the past decade is more substantial than what Barça have is total nonsense.  Who cares if you make the same sum quicker than someone else?

Also, what you see as a contradiction actually is nothing of the sort.  I meant what I said and I'll explain that part very briefly which is rare for me ... The Champions League is is the maximum trophy because it has the maximum general exposure throughout the world, throughout every continent.  The name of the tournament (or better said, the name it used to have) tells you it all, it's a cup competition outside the borders of each individual club.  It's an international tournament.

But you're not even going to really believe that a season of football consisting of 38 games (38 in the majority of countries) isn't more important.

But I can add something more substantial to that part with these facts...

Why is a league sold as a package on diverse tv platforms throughout the world in every continent?

Did you know that buying either the Premier League or La Liga costs 3 times as much as buying the rights to the Champions League? (In the Premier League's case, 5 times as much)

What would be the point in fans outside where clubs those clubs reside be something that tv platforms would spend so much money on when they could kill two birds with one stone and buy the Champions League and then just simply buy the extended highlights access to the big leagues.  TV platforms (PPV and subscription modules) are businesses, they're not national services which is where these leagues are shown in the grand majority (if not all) of countries that have this product available.  Why would someone follow a product for almost a whole year with many mundane games if it doesn't brew interest outside what you said only interests the fans at home!

Being the Champions of Europe is massive, but it's value in the context of the campaign is questionable if you have a domestic season like Real Madrid had this year. I wouldn't have said absolutely anything (I swear to you on all that I most love) if Real Madrid had've come second a few points behind Barça because you can't win everything and that would've been a dignified season with an eventual magnificent victory in the Champions League, I swear to you I wouldn't have said any of this... With that I refer to everything else I said in the post you quoted.

International tournaments create more impact and that's a fact, especially in one particular continent...  But do you hold the World Club Cup as the ultimate club tournament of them all?  I know you don't, I know that for a fact and I don't even know you personally.

Anyway... (Because I know how this works with some on the forum, not directed at you) Once again, I want to reiterate that I am in no way whatsoever wanting or trying to belittle Real Madrid's achievement.  It's massive!  But the context is in each individual season and adding a decade's worth of football can't then be drawn down into who done something quicker... Come oooooon man!  Come on!  The consecutive wins are a great feat and only a fool would say otherwise.

[Cicero]

#2in10 is now trending on twitter 

[The Artful Dodger]

The Champions League is meaningless because of the domestic season Real Madrid have? Really plumbing the depths now.

[Marc]

The more rattled SirBalon gets the longer his posts are. 

 

Bringing up some amazing points though..: the cost of TV rights for each competition. What the fuck  I also highly doubt the rights cost 3x more for La Liga than CL! Fake news  

 

[Storts+]

1 hour ago, Cannabis said:

It's just hard to rim Real Madrid when they have an absolutely embarrassing domestic record. 

Understand it's not been their best season...

However 

Being the Champions of Europe is massive, but it's meaningless if you have a domestic season like Real Madrid had this year.

Meaningless  FFS. Being Champions of Europe is never meaningless under any circumstances. 

Should have told those Liverpool fans not to bother because if they had won it then it would have been meaningless as they finished 4th. It's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on here. 

[Stan]

yeah that's a pretty dumb thing to say. 

[SirBalon]

2 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

The Champions League is meaningless because of the domestic season Real Madrid have? Really plumbing the depths now.

Who said that?

[SirBalon]

I write two long posts explaining things and then I'm taken out of context and the rest is ignored... Ok I'll amend that part.

[SirBalon]

10 hours ago, SirBalon said:

Being the Champions of Europe is massive, but it's value in the context of the campaign is questionable if you have a domestic season like Real Madrid had this year.

Sorted and it still means what I wanted it to but isn't so cutting. 

[Devil-Dick Willie]

And the 2018 cornflake tears award goes to.... Sir Balon.

[bozziovai]

i'm no spaniard, but i'm guessing that Catalunya's bad history has made them stronger and tighter as a people and that reflected on Barcelona.    The one thing i admire about Barca is their unity, well, except for that cunt of a person Pep when there were a lot of internal fighting with Eto'o and Zlatan and all that play-acting, but overall, they showed the essence of what it means to be a "team".No matter who their manager is, they are still winning bcoz everyone knows their roles.  on the other hand, Madrid, the elitist that they are and that self absorbing and control freak of a president in Perez has handed down that aura to his spanish players making them pricks and acting like they're bigger than the coaches.   We've seen it against Manuel, Carlo, Jose and Rafa, pricks like Guti and Ramos and Casillas, they're only united when they are winning but clearly divided when they are losing .... 

[Lucas]

Real's 3 in a row will not be bettered for a while, it's an incredible feat. I think it's best to let sleeping dogs lie with some arguments because factually, they will always be down as one of the greatest now, no getting away from it.

But to be fair, the club is still a bunch of detestable cunts (No disrespect to you Bozziovai)

[SirBalon]

39 minutes ago, bozziovai said:

i'm no spaniard, but i'm guessing that Catalunya's bad history has made them stronger and tighter as a people and that reflected on Barcelona.    The one thing i admire about Barca is their unity, well, except for that cunt of a person Pep when there were a lot of internal fighting with Eto'o and Zlatan and all that play-acting, but overall, they showed the essence of what it means to be a "team".No matter who their manager is, they are still winning bcoz everyone knows their roles.  on the other hand, Madrid, the elitist that they are and that self absorbing and control freak of a president in Perez has handed down that aura to his spanish players making them pricks and acting like they're bigger than the coaches.   We've seen it against Manuel, Carlo, Jose and Rafa, pricks like Guti and Ramos and Casillas, they're only united when they are winning but clearly divided when they are losing .... 

Spanish football has a hell of a lot of internal politics sewn into it from ideologies, to cultural differences all over the peninsula, to class status.  It causes havoc when things aren't going well.

People must also take into account that the reason you have two big clubs in either every major city or region is basically because of all the different statuses I just wrote in the first paragraph.  Take for example Sevilla and Betis... You have traditional historical right-wing and left-wing ideologies with the working class supporting Betis and the middle classes supporting Sevilla.

[Beelzebub]

16 hours ago, Asura said:

Its a disgrace to actually count the super cups in the official tally, you dont win a proper trophy by playing one match or a two legged tie... super cups shouldnt be counted as official trophies for any club

Amazes me people don't consider Confederations cup worthwhile but consider supercups as important.

[Cicero]

43 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Real's 3 in a row will not be bettered for a while, it's an incredible feat. I think it's best to let sleeping dogs lie with some arguments because factually, they will always be down as one of the greatest now, no getting away from it.

But to be fair, the club is still a bunch of detestable cunts (No disrespect to you Bozziovai)

It is an incredible feat. To deny that is absurd. 

However the point still stands. Real's league form during this CL dominance should always be into question when there is a discussion regarding one of the greatest teams of all time. 

At the end of the day, we need to remember the European Cup is a cup competition. This is the same competition that a 6th place Liverpool and the worst Chelsea side in the Abramovich era won. The notion that putting all your eggs in one basket being seen greater than a club winning two trebles and a sixtuplet within 6 years, is also absurd. 

With how incredible this feat is, it is equally as incredible that this same club has 2 league titles in 10 years. 

This current Real Madrid are a glorified cup team. A rich man's Arsenal. Nothing more, nothing less. 

[bozziovai]

52 minutes ago, Lucas said:

Real's 3 in a row will not be bettered for a while, it's an incredible feat. I think it's best to let sleeping dogs lie with some arguments because factually, they will always be down as one of the greatest now, no getting away from it.

But to be fair, the club is still a bunch of detestable cunts (No disrespect to you Bozziovai)

none taken.    i'm a madrid fan but i'm always fair.   as you guys have seen, i've been very critical of Ramos and Pepe and that flip-floppin president Perez.   In the case of Ronaldo, a lot of people hate him, but that's their opinion, no one can change that, but for me, Christiano's "arrogance" comes from his will to be always on top, his ego has helped Madrid for many years, his record of 6th straight top scorer in the UCL is testament to that.

[Guest]

To me, there is no distinction between being the champion of Europe and being the champion of your own league, but it also depends on which league you are in.

If Ajax were to win the UCL one day again, but didn't win their league, it would be unfair to them as they would want to focus on one competition and its really the only place they have to prove themselves in. In the Eredivisie, they aren't going to get the same competition that you'd get in the PL or Serie A for example.

If you win a league title, you are the best and most consistent team in your country. If you win the UCL, you probably are the best team in Europe bar a very, very lucky win (like Chelsea in 2012). Now what happens if you win the UCL and finish 3rd in your league, 20 points behind first? I've argue in most circumstances, you probably still are the best team in Europe as the key part of winning a cup competition is momentum. Its not all style. If you grab some form in the second half the season and improve your side, then you'll do well in the UCL and that also requires doing well in the league. Its not always the norm, but I think its fundamental to a deserved CL win.

Now as for my controversial opinion, enough of this 1 leg final nonsense. A 2 legged final takes away from the drama, but not only can you win it in front of your own fans, it also determines who really is the best, where as a 1 legged final you could dominate all game only for them to score a last minute winner on their first shot. It doesn't determine who really is the best side. Now in the past few years, the best sides have won. I still think a 2 legged final would be a better way to determine who really is the best team. Think Derby in the 2014 playoff final vs QPR. I'm not having for one second that QPR was the better team.

If you win a top league by a lot, then the debate is which league had the best winner. You could have a near perfect first half the season and then grind out results playing terribly in the second half and then being found out in the UCL knockout stages. That is why to me, its really all debate. In the UCL you face the best teams in the world and you absolutely need to build momentum to win it but less matches to show consistency. In the league, you need good form too but you can afford a few slip ups here and there. Its more forgiving.

[bozziovai]

8 minutes ago, Cicero said:

 

However the point still stands. Real's league form during this CL dominance should always be into question when there is a discussion regarding one of the greatest teams of all time. 

 

let's put in some stats here coz this has been always your jab against Madrid.    coz it seems like Madrid have failed miserably in the league during their Champions League reign ....

2014 - the first Madrid UCL Final derby - Real won.    in la liga, Atleti are champions and Real are just 3 points away from them.

2016 - the second Madrid derby - Real won.   in la liga only ONE POINT behind Barca.

2017 - of course, the Double.    UCL and La Liga Winners.

2018 - 3rd successive UCL crown and a facking miles away from Barcelona.

 

if you look at those facts, they haven't done badly in the league as you might think, only in this year that they've fallen in deep shit in the league.  it's clear that you're only exaggerating things .......