SirBalon Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Marc said: Sir Balon called the win meaningless, someone said about Real getting easy draws, you made some completely random out of context point about winning the CL without playing top teams then ASF put you back in your place. You then amazingly came out and said they haven't played Barca @SirBalonwould you agree this is the most dominant european cup team since the first RM team in the 50s? 4 in 5, 3 in 3 remember. The meltdown is still on for 1k posts. If you want to get into football debate with me or some of the others here, you have to be serious and stop trying to troll. Since you've asked a normal question... It shows you haven't read my posts properly and my "meaningless" reference to their achievement was an error which I edited. But throughout I have commended Real Madrid on their feat and I've always stated that they're the greatest club in history. But in no way imaginable are they greater than the Barcelona of the the last 20 years in any way imaginable. In every aspect including what later came with Guardiola is accepted in Spain (where it counts) as dominance. I'm not even going to go into the semantics of Real Madrid and the greyer part of their history... Read through my posts word for word again and also Cicero who we've all maintained that the 3 in a row is a great feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, ASF said: There are two contenders in La Liga. I like Atlético, but unless both Spanish giants have a season off, it's almost impossible for another team to win La Liga. The same happens in most leagues. England are an exception. In England, you have 4-6 teams with budgets that can make them compete for the league. But in the rest of the major leagues, this doesn't happen. You have, realistically, 2-3 clubs battling for the title. And in some cases, I'm being optimistic. Just look at the Bundesliga, where it seems unlikely that Bayern will lose the title, in the next couple of years. In the CL, you have about 8-10 clubs with budgets that can allow them to compete for the title. Real, Barça, Bayern, Juventus, PSG, Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool. Then you have clubs with tradition, like Porto, Benfica, Roma, Dortmund, Arsenal, Napoli, Atlético. I've named 16 teams, that's half of the competition of the CL, that should/can compete for the trophy. The problem is that people talk about the CL like if it was a domestic Cup. 'With a bit of luck, and 1-2 good games, you can win the CL'. Not, it's not as easy like that. There's a reason why there has only been one new team, winning the competition, in the past 20 years (Chelsea). On the other hand, you see leagues being won by the same team over and over again. If this doesn't demonstrate the difficulty that it is to win the CL and become European Champion, then I don't know what can make you see it. It makes it a tougher competition. lol how can you not include atletico in the la liga contention but include the likes of man utd, liverpool, chelsea and psg in the CL contenders list? That doesnt make any sense. Also Benfica, Roma, Dortmund, Arsenal etc have the same probability to win the CL as villarreal, valencia, sevilla, Bilbao, winning the spanish league... You said that already but without any backup... I showed you the numbers and you can feel free to debate on those, except saying atletico dont have a chance to win spanish league while throwing porto, benfica in the CL mix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, ASF said: 15/16 - Roma, Man City and Atlético 16/17 - Bayern, Atlético and Juventus 17/18 - PSG, Juventus, Bayern and Liverpool And if you go even further into the past, you will see that the team that eventually wins the competition, very rarely have easy draws. I thought you like atletico but unless other teams have a season off its impossible for them to win the "relatively easier" league then how can you use them here? Also Roma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Marc said: Sir Balon called the win meaningless, someone said about Real getting easy draws, you made some completely random out of context point about winning the CL without playing top teams then ASF put you back in your place. You then amazingly came out and said they haven't played Barca @SirBalonwould you agree this is the most dominant european cup team since the first RM team in the 50s? 4 in 5, 3 in 3 remember. The meltdown is still on for 1k posts. what place are you talking about lol. He said Atletico are not title contenders in la liga but then in the next reply he again said they are one of the top teams to beat in CL since Real faced them, he also added Roma to that top teams to beat list in CL I suggest you better continue posting words like meltdown, rattled, etc and win your own little battle on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Marc disppears when he gets put in his place, shocker We all get that @SirBalon speaks an ancient type of English, but he's not biased at all. I'm in the middle in this conversation as I mentioned, I don't think there is any distinction and its all down to debate. For example, I think Liverpool have only been a close second for best side in England since January, yet they finished 4th (or 3rd, cba to check). They had a slow start and have grabbed form after Van Dijk joined. I think they are better than United and have more depth than Spurs (albeit not by a lot). Real Madrid is a tough one though. They started off the season very slowly and bettered their form over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Fed up of reply to trolls. Cicero is rattled and has resorted to name calling again. I'm above that This forum would be far better if there wasn't so many wind up merchants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Marc said: Fed up of reply to trolls. Cicero is rattled and has resorted to name calling again. I'm above that This forum would be far better if there wasn't so many wind up merchants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASF Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 On 5/31/2018 at 20:37, Asura said: lol how can you not include atletico in the la liga contention but include the likes of man utd, liverpool, chelsea and psg in the CL contenders list? That doesnt make any sense. Also Benfica, Roma, Dortmund, Arsenal etc have the same probability to win the CL as villarreal, valencia, sevilla, Bilbao, winning the spanish league... You said that already but without any backup... I showed you the numbers and you can feel free to debate on those, except saying atletico dont have a chance to win spanish league while throwing porto, benfica in the CL mix... Did you even read my post? I said that the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, PSG, Liverpool have budgets that can allow them to compete, for the CL, which is true. Atlético don't have the budget to compete with Barça and Real for the league, but they should be able to compete in the CL because it's a shorter competition, where the difference in budgets is narrowed, despite the high quality teams participating. For Barça and Real, it's easier to win the league, because they are stronger than the remaining 18 teams of the league. In the CL, the competitiveness is higher, thus it's more difficult to win it for them than the league. Capisce? Plenty of back up in my posts, if you bothered to read them properly. Porto, Benfica, Dortmund, are clubs with history in the CL, former European champions. With their background, they should be always aiming to, at least, a quarter-final place. On 5/31/2018 at 20:38, Asura said: I thought you like atletico but unless other teams have a season off its impossible for them to win the "relatively easier" league then how can you use them here? Also Roma? I think it's pretty easy to understand that it's more difficult to beat Roma, on a Wednesday night, than to beat Las Palmas on a Sunday morning. 23 hours ago, Asura said: what place are you talking about lol. He said Atletico are not title contenders in la liga but then in the next reply he again said they are one of the top teams to beat in CL since Real faced them, he also added Roma to that top teams to beat list in CL I suggest you better continue posting words like meltdown, rattled, etc and win your own little battle on the side. Atlético are not title contenders in La Liga, but the way they play, added with their quality, makes them difficult to beat over 2 games/a final. Roma are a quality team. Never said they are a top team. Certainly a bigger challenge than Las Palmas, Deportivo, Alavés, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, ASF said: Did you even read my post? I said that the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea, PSG, Liverpool have budgets that can allow them to compete, for the CL, which is true. Atlético don't have the budget to compete with Barça and Real for the league, but they should be able to compete in the CL because it's a shorter competition, where the difference in budgets is narrowed, despite the high quality teams participating. For Barça and Real, it's easier to win the league, because they are stronger than the remaining 18 teams of the league. In the CL, the competitiveness is higher, thus it's more difficult to win it for them than the league. Capisce? Plenty of back up in my posts, if you bothered to read them properly. Porto, Benfica, Dortmund, are clubs with history in the CL, former European champions. With their background, they should be always aiming to, at least, a quarter-final place. I think it's pretty easy to understand that it's more difficult to beat Roma, on a Wednesday night, than to beat Las Palmas on a Sunday morning. Atlético are not title contenders in La Liga, but the way they play, added with their quality, makes them difficult to beat over 2 games/a final. Roma are a quality team. Never said they are a top team. Certainly a bigger challenge than Las Palmas, Deportivo, Alavés, etc. Sure, its legit to compare Roma to Las Palmas, Deportivo and Alves (they are actually comparable to zagreb, malmo, APOEL in CL) but not to the likes of Valencia, Sevilla, Villarreal and Bilbao. Budget always doesnt mean they are contenders, the prime example of that is no one really believes PSG can win this tournament against the likes of Barca, Madrid, Bayern and Juve whose budgets are probably smaller than PSG. You are trying too hard and its totally evident when you tried to put Atletico in the CL contender but not on league contender list. And seriously you are putting Roma in the same bracket as Alaves and Las Palmas instead of Sevilla and Villarreal? Have a day off mate, you had a mare in this thread already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASF Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Asura said: Sure, its legit to compare Roma to Las Palmas, Deportivo and Alves (they are actually comparable to zagreb, malmo, APOEL) but not to the likes of Valencia, Sevilla, Villarreal and Bilbao. Budget always doesnt mean they are contenders, the prime example of that is no one really believes PSG can win this tournament against the likes of Barca, Madrid, Bayern and Juve whose budgets are probably smaller than PSG. You are trying too hard and its totally evident when you tried to put Atletico in the CL contender but not on league contender list. And seriously you are putting Roma in the same bracket as Alaves and Las Palmas instead of Sevilla and Villarreal? Have a day off mate, you had a mare in this thread already. Big budgets give you an upper hand over small ones. This is pretty obvious. And no one doubts that, sooner or later, PSG will be able to be up there thanks to their money. Just like it happened with Chelsea and is now happening with City. It takes time, but they'll get there. Nah mate, you haven't been able to dispute my points, but just spout absolute nonsense, without understanding what I said. And because it's futile to keep a debate with someone who has language problems, have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, ASF said: Big budgets give you an upper hand over small ones. This is pretty obvious. And no one doubts that, sooner or later, PSG will be able to be up there thanks to their money. Just like it happened with Chelsea and is now happening with City. It takes time, but they'll get there. Nah mate, you haven't been able to dispute my points, but just spout absolute nonsense, without understanding what I said. And because it's futile to keep a debate with someone who has language problems, have a nice day. Ofcourse big budgets give you an edge over smaller teams, I didnt deny that but all Im saying is if you ask someone who are the favourites to win the CL this season hardly 1 out of 10 pr 20 would say PSG despite them having the highest budget. Infact I will say there will be more people who would say Atletico's name over PSG. You havent had any points to begin with. You compared apples to oranges and tried to prove your non existent point. You still havent responded to my points about how you believed Roma as a bigger threat in CL over Atletico in the spanish league. You also conveniently put Roma in the same bracket as Las Palmas and Alaves while in reality Roma in CL is comparable to Valcencia and Sevilla in the league and Las Palmas, Alves in the league are about Zagreb and APOEL level in CL. Just because you have comprehension issues about what people write, dont call me names about my language. lol Im always up for agreeing to disagree when people have different opinions but its ridiculous to even think you had a point to begin with when you compared two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozziovai Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 On 6/1/2018 at 01:27, Asura said: what difference does it make if they all just participate but while you dont have to face them to win the trophy? the difference this year is .... Madrid faced the champions of France, Italy and Germany on their way to the Finals. Liverpool has beaten the most dominating team in their league - CITY.... like i always say, that's the beauty of the champions league. in the case of liverpool when they faced City, the all conquering team in the EPL, but in two games, got butt-facked by a liverpool, a team that's very much below City in the EPL standings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 minute ago, bozziovai said: the difference this year is .... Madrid faced the champions of France, Italy and Germany on their way to the Finals. Liverpool has beaten the most dominating team in their league - CITY.... like i always say, that's the beauty of the champions league. in the case of liverpool when they faced City, the all conquering team in the EPL, but in two games, got butt-facked by a liverpool, a team that's very much below City in the EPL standings. This year was different mate, Real definitely beat some great teams on their way and I didn't say otherwise. But the reply of mine you quoted above was of a different context. I was saying that you dont face ALL the top teams in champions league is what I said there. Even though Real faced Liverpool, Juve, Bayern and PSG, I was referring there that they didnt face City and Barcelona, arguably the two best teams of this season in entire europe. Even then Real faced 4 great teams on their way which is considered the maximum number of top teams you face in CL campaign so on an average you meet 2 or 3 top teams in CL which is probably equivalent to how many top teams you face in the league too. Isnt it? So I was saying that CL is not really special and all this "CL has the best teams from the continent" is a myth and you dont really face ALL of those top teams but 2-3 on an average or a maximum of 4 like Real did this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozziovai Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 minute ago, Asura said: This year was different mate, Real definitely beat some great teams on their way and I didn't say otherwise. But the reply of mine you quoted above was of a different context. I was saying that you dont face ALL the top teams in champions league is what I said there. Even though Real faced Liverpool, Juve, Bayern and PSG, I was referring there that they didnt face City and Barcelona, arguably the two best teams of this season in entire europe. Even then Real faced 4 great teams on their way which is considered the maximum number of top teams you face in CL campaign so on an average you meet 2 or 3 top teams in CL which is probably equivalent to how many top teams you face in the league too. Isnt it? So I was saying that CL is not really special and all this "CL has the best teams from the continent" is a myth and you dont really face ALL of those top teams but 2-3 on an average or a maximum of 4 like Real did this season. having to face each and every team in the CL would only mean that they'll opt to go on the ROUND ROBIN scenario, which will take a toll on the players. but if you say that the UCL is nothing special, then better tell it to the fans of Barcelona who had won two trebles, tell them they should take out their UCL crown. Tell the Chelsea fans who jumped with ecstasy when Drogba scored that Penaly Shootout. Throw out the achievement of Seedorf for winning in three different teams. Or tell the liverpool fans to go fack their arses for that amazing comeback against AC MIlan ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, bozziovai said: having to face each and every team in the CL would only mean that they'll opt to go on the ROUND ROBIN scenario, which will take a toll on the players. but if you say that the UCL is nothing special, then better tell it to the fans of Barcelona who had won two trebles, tell them they should take out their UCL crown. Tell the Chelsea fans who jumped with ecstasy when Drogba scored that Penaly Shootout. Throw out the achievement of Seedorf for winning in three different teams. Or tell the liverpool fans to go fack their arses for that amazing comeback against AC MIlan ..... maybe wrong choice of words by me... I apologise and I didnt mean to say its nothing special. I meant to say its not the greatest trophy to win as league is the best tournament due to all the factors me and few others mentioned here. CL is more prestigious while league is the toughest to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozziovai Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, Asura said: maybe wrong choice of words by me... I apologise and I didnt mean to say its nothing special. I meant to say its not the greatest trophy to win as league is the best tournament due to all the factors me and few others mentioned here. CL is more prestigious while league is the toughest to win. sorry for the harsh words also ....... yes, that's the best thing to put it .... each has it's own charisma and charm. what's more fascinating is how two teams have dominated in these past years. Barca trolling everyone in La Liga while Madrid has painted the UCL white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, ASF said: Big budgets give you an upper hand over small ones. This is pretty obvious. And no one doubts that, sooner or later, PSG will be able to be up there thanks to their money. Just like it happened with Chelsea and is now happening with City. It takes time, but they'll get there. Nah mate, you haven't been able to dispute my points, but just spout absolute nonsense, without understanding what I said. And because it's futile to keep a debate with someone who has language problems, have a nice day. Yeah but the sides that are significantly better than their much weaker league opposition seldom ever make the final, let alone win the competition. Yes, it's happened before. But it's rare. So while I think PSG can one day make the final, maybe even win it... I doubt they'll be up there on the list of European royalty. The last time there was a "surprise" winner, it was us in 2005. The season before that it was you and Monaco in the final. Those aren't exactly common circumstances. Before that it was Ajax in the 90s, and that team was torn apart by wealthier clubs after they won it (as was your Porto, if I remember right). I think competing in a stronger league is better "practice" for going up against Europe's elite clubs, you face more quality opposition so you're going to be used to playing up against the very best. I don't think it's a coincidence that Italian football has done worse and worse in the years following the Calciopoli scandal and the general quality of that league gradually getting worse over the years coincided with only Inter doing anything of note in Europe for Italian clubs until fairly recently. And I don't think it's a coincidence that the club that regularly has to do battle with Barca has the quality and mental fortitude to keep making (and winning) CL finals. I think it's a double edged sword though, because if your league has too many sides competing at the top you don't end up with the same concentration of quality at the top sides - there is more wealth to be shared. Which is why I don't think it's coincidental that English clubs are doing worse in Europe than they've done since 2005 - because I think the top sides in that league had more general quality. Don't get me wrong, I love the CL. In my eyes, it's the best cup tournament in the world - it's the best sides in the world competing for an incredibly prestigious football. But just as I don't think the World Cup indicates that the winner is the "best team in the world' (because the best teams in the world are club teams - they practice with each other all the time, if you got this Real Madrid side or Barca side up against the best national sides - I think the club sides would wipe the floor with them)... I don't think the CL winner indicates the best side in Europe. I honestly don't know if there's any real metric to judge the best league/best side in Europe/the World though. But that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber Viva la FCB+ Posted June 1, 2018 Subscriber Share Posted June 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Marc said: Fed up of reply to trolls. Cicero is rattled and has resorted to name calling again. I'm above that This forum would be far better if there wasn't so many wind up merchants. Ill try to help you out; None of them are rattled or having a melt. they where having a good debate imo and you threw yourself in the middle without reading from the start what the debate was even about and further more jumped on a few words taken out of context. Is this finally where this thing finally applies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, bozziovai said: having to face each and every team in the CL would only mean that they'll opt to go on the ROUND ROBIN scenario, which will take a toll on the players. but if you say that the UCL is nothing special, then better tell it to the fans of Barcelona who had won two trebles, tell them they should take out their UCL crown. Tell the Chelsea fans who jumped with ecstasy when Drogba scored that Penaly Shootout. Throw out the achievement of Seedorf for winning in three different teams. Or tell the liverpool fans to go fack their arses for that amazing comeback against AC MIlan ..... I'll stick my neck out on the fact that Real Madrid wouldn't have won none of the three in a row had it been a league system in the Chanpions League all the way through, via points with the leader winning it. I am 100% sure of that! Cup football is very different to a league system. That doesn't mean Real Madrid don't possess a great side and are able to compete! Another thing... This budgets thing isn't the be all and end all. Obviously being able to purchase better players gives you a better quality of player. But if we go on that scenario, what happened between Man Utd and Sevilla? Infact let me go even further... What happened between Liverpool and Sevilla?... No! Let me go further still... Aside from Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atlético Madrid practically every team in the Premier League has a higher budget than the rest of La Liga probably even Valencia and Athletic Bilbao... But I'm pretty certain both those clubs would make more than a decent account of themselves against many of those sides. There's more to football than just budgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Brilliant reading this page 23. Never before I have seen people so united under one flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 @Devil-Dick Willie What the fuck are cornflake tears? Do you mean 'crocodile tears' you absolute wild cunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machado Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, Machado said: This emoji is just about the only thing I like that's tangentially related to this final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil-Dick Willie Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Spike said: @Devil-Dick Willie What the fuck are cornflake tears? Do you mean 'crocodile tears' you absolute wild cunt? No. Cornflake tears are the tears you cry into your morning cornflakes knowing you have to live with yourself for another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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