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Özil and Gündogan criticised by German FA over Turkish president meeting

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https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12023/11372970/mesut-ozil-and-ilkay-gundogan-criticised-by-german-fa-over-turkish-president-meeting

Mesut Ozil and Ilkay Gundogan criticised by German FA over Turkish president meeting


The German Football Association (DFB) says Mesut Ozil and Ilkay Gundogan have "let themselves be exploited" after posing for pictures with Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

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Arsenal's Ozil and Manchester City midfielder Gundogan, who are both German internationals born in Gelsenkirchen and of Turkish origin, met Erdogan in London on Sunday alongside Everton striker Cenk Tosun.

All three handed Erdogan, who has been president of Turkey since 2014 having previously served as prime minister since 2003, signed shirts from their clubs. Erdogan is in the middle of campaigning after he declared snap elections last month.
However, the DFB says it now intends to speak with Ozil and Gundogan after photos of the meeting were used on social media by Erdogan's campaign team.

"The DFB of course respects the special situation for our players with migrant backgrounds, but football and the DFB stands for values that Mr Erdogan does not sufficiently respect," DFB president Reinhard Grindel said.
"Therefore, it is not a good thing that our internationals have let themselves be exploited for his election campaign stunt. It certainly hasn't helped the DFB's integration efforts."

DFB team coordinator Oliver Bierhoff said: "I still have absolutely no doubts about Mesut and Ilkay's commitment to playing for the Germany national team and how much they identify with our values.
"They were unaware of the symbolism of these pictures, but we cannot endorse it, and we will discuss the matter with the players."

 

Thoughts? :ph34r:

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My thoughts? Gundogan looks like a dodgy porn star. 

 

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Gündogan apparently signed the shirt with "With great respect to my dearest President" or something along those lines... Integration at its best, haha.

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So they both went to meet a real terrorist in the flesh! :o

Imagine all the things you can ask and find out about.  It's not everyday you get to meet people like that in real life.

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Ozil has always struck me as not very bright so I can kinda forgive him for getting roped into this, but Gundogan seems pretty smart whenever he speaks and he should definitely know the political implications for a person of his stature to lend credibility to an authoritarian leader. There's no safe conclusion but to assume that he is aware of and endorses Erdogan's policies, especially with his particularly fawning caption.

Pretty gutting, I always liked Gundogan.

Props to Can for having the dignity to refuse.

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6 minutes ago, Inverted said:

There's no safe conclusion but to assume that he is aware of and endorses Erdogan's policies

In my personal experience most (if not all) Turkish ex-pats endorse and support everything Erdogan is about.

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19 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Not surprised as both of them are Turkish or off Turkish origin.

Most Chileans or off Chilean origin don't support anything Pinochet was about.  Why does origin mean you have to support a terrorist?

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Just now, SirBalon said:

Most Chileans or off Chilean origin don't support anything Pinochet was about.  Why does origin mean you have to support a terrorist?

Actually he is an dictator, a terrorist makes terror attacks.

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2 minutes ago, True Blue said:

Actually he is an dictator, a terrorist makes terror attacks.

He endorses terrorism outside his borders and is (or wants to) ethnically cleansing the Kurdish population in his own country and elsewhere in the surrounding nations.  I would say he is a similar character to Milosović.

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Just now, SirBalon said:

He endorses terrorism in outside his borders and is (or wants to) ethnically cleansing the Kurdish population in his own country and elsewhere in the surrounding nations.  I would say he is a similar character to Milosović.

I know worse than him, for example the Israeli

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4 minutes ago, True Blue said:

I know worse than him, for example the Israeli

What's that supposed to mean mate?

So if my neighbour kills 10 people and 5 roads down some other guy kills 50 people (both indiscriminately), I should somehow warm to my neighbours?

A cunt is a cunt and I don't have grades of cuntishness.  Or maybe the lives of Kurdish men, women and children are worth less than Palestinians?

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1 minute ago, SirBalon said:

What's that supposed to mean mate?

So if my neighbour kills 10 people and 5 roads down some other guy kills 50 people (both indiscriminately), I should somehow warm to my neighbours?

A cunt is a cunt and I don't have grades of cuntishness.  Or maybe the lives of Kurdish men, women and children are worth less than Palestinians?

No don't get me wrong i don't like any of them, Erdogan is a modern Dictator who hides behind his state. He is God in Turkey and no one can or may oppose him. Probably gonna rule like Putin forever. Agreed in the less evil part, just a quick not thinking post.

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17 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

In my personal experience most (if not all) Turkish ex-pats endorse and support everything Erdogan is about.

I guess it’s easier for expats to support authoritarian nationalists. The fascist rhetoric gives them an artificial sense of belonging to a country that they didn’t grow up in and know little of, and not living there means they don’t have to experience the gritty reality of life under legal repression.

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26 minutes ago, Inverted said:

I guess it’s easier for expats to support authoritarian nationalists. The fascist rhetoric gives them an artificial sense of belonging to a country that they didn’t grow up in and know little of, and not living there means they don’t have to experience the gritty reality of life under legal repression.

There are all sorts of reasons as to why Turkish ex-pats and many living in Turkey support Erdogan.  It's a very complicated situation...

Without going into all the ins and outs because there are good things that he's done like giving free health care to all (a mask of the ilk many authoritarians use to mislead statistics of power)... I'm being basic as I said and I could go on.  But basically he's put Turkey on the map, he's made them a sort of power house, a nation that has to be listened to and with plenty of influence with an economy that isn't to be laughed at especially considering (as I mentioned) the influence in the surrounding areas they are geographically positioned in with part of the country also being in Europe... This is something Turks of past generations couldn't even dream about. I repeat that I'm being very general and this could be a 20 page post where even then it wouldn't give justice.

But his authoritarianism is a power he wields indiscriminately and with all sorts of terrible underlying actions that if done by a lesser nation with no influence would've been castigated severely by the usual suspects.

Özil and Gündogan are just typical Turks born elsewhere.  Any German that for a second ever thought they were genuine Germans other than the political inevitability and fact that they're born on German soil are truly mistaken. 

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1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

Most Chileans or off Chilean origin don't support anything Pinochet was about.  Why does origin mean you have to support a terrorist?

I'm Australian of English origin and I don't fecking support Theresa May.:433_cricket: Using that logic you are a Falangist because Franco is Galician as well...

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3 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm Australian of English origin and I don't fecking support Theresa May.:433_cricket: Using that logic you are a Falangist because Franco is Galician as well...

Actually your Franco and Galicians is even better than mine on Chileans and Pinochet. xD

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1 hour ago, SirBalon said:

 

Özil and Gündogan are just typical Turks born elsewhere.  Any German that for a second ever thought they were genuine Germans other than the political inevitability and fact that they're born on German soil are truly mistaken. 

@Tommy @Faithcore @nudge Is this true? That the Turkish expats in Germany don't integrate well? How does it make you feel when people treat the national team as something to win a trophy with rather than playing for the sake of Germany? Someone (a German) even told me that Volga Germans aren't even really considered German even though they are ethnically.

Personally it'd annoy me for someone to play for Australia just to win trophies but that isn't going to happen anytime soon, ahaha
 

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4 minutes ago, Spike said:

@Tommy @Faithcore @nudge Is this true? That the Turkish expats in Germany don't integrate well? How does it make you feel when people treat the national team as something to win a trophy with rather than playing for the sake of Germany? Someone (a German) even told me that Volga Germans aren't even really considered German even though they are ethnically.

Personally it'd annoy me for someone to play for Australia just to win trophies but that isn't going to happen anytime soon, ahaha
 

I'm only half German myself, and was born and grew up abroad haha. The rest of the Bundesliga folks are better suited to answer your questions, but in general, it's no secret that the Turkish immigrants are very poorly integrated, worse than any other large immigrant group, I think.

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Just now, nudge said:

I'm only half German myself, and was born and grew up abroad haha. The rest of the Bundesliga folks are better suited to answer your questions, but in general, it's no secret that the Turkish immigrants are very poorly integrated, worse than any other large immigrant group, I think.

Oh, I thought you were Lithuanian that grew up in Germany. I guess I got it mixed up.

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Just now, Spike said:

Oh, I thought you were Lithuanian that grew up in Germany. I guess I got it mixed up.

Nah, I'm Lithuanian with a German father, grew up mostly in Lithuania.

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The only German I know of an expat background was a Wolgadeutscher. Actually, he was from a family historically deported to Kazakhstan who then made their way to Germany, but he just called his background Russian.

He seemed pretty completely integrated, and his family was a pretty comfortable family of music teachers. Despite it he seemed to be a slight Putin apologist, and he had aunts and other relatives who were crazy right-wingers who looked down on Germans and hated non-whites and gays.

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5 minutes ago, Inverted said:

The only German I know of an expat background was a Wolgadeutscher. Actually, he was from a family historically deported to Kazakhstan who then made their way to Germany, but he just called his background Russian.

He seemed pretty completely integrated, and his family was a pretty comfortable family of music teachers. Despite it he seemed to be a slight Putin apologist, and he had aunts and other relatives who were crazy right-wingers who looked down on Germans and hated non-whites and gays.

That pretty much describes what I've heard of Volga Germans!

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_101571579_turkplayersreut13may.jpg

 

_101571574_turkozilepa13may.jpg

 

The German Football Federation (DFB) has criticised its internationals Mesut Özil and Ilkay Gündogan for posing in photos with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

The two German-born players, both of Turkish origin, gave Mr Erdogan signed shirts at an event in London on Sunday.

Gündogan wrote: "For my honoured President, with great respect." Mr Erdogan is campaigning for re-election.

Özil plays for Arsenal and Gündogan for Manchester City.

Both players are preparing for next month's Fifa World Cup in Russia, in which Germany is among the favourites. Turkey did not qualify.

Many German politicians have also criticised the footballers, questioning their loyalty to German democratic values.

DFB president Reinhard Grindel said: "Football and the DFB defend values which are not sufficiently respected by Mr Erdogan.

"That's why it's not good that our international players let themselves be manipulated for his electoral campaign. In doing that, our players have certainly not helped the DFB's work on integration."

DFB director Oliver Bierhoff said: "Neither one of them was aware of the symbolic value of this photo, but it's clearly not right and we'll be talking to them about it".

In his youth, before entering politics in the 1990s, Mr Erdogan played football semi-professionally for an Istanbul team, Kasimpasa.

After the criticism erupted, Gündogan issued a statement defending himself, Özil and Cenk Tosun over their meeting with Mr Erdogan.

They met on the sidelines of an event at a Turkish foundation that helps Turkish students, he explained.

"Are we supposed to be impolite to the president of our families' homeland?" he asked.

"Whatever justified criticism there might be, we decided on a gesture of politeness, out of respect for the office of president and for our Turkish roots."

He said "it was not our intention to make a political statement with this picture".

Turkish-origin Cem Özdemir, a prominent German Green MP and sharp critic of Mr Erdogan, attacked Gündogan's "my President" message.

"The federal president of a German international footballer is called Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the chancellor is Angela Merkel and the parliament is called the German Bundestag," he said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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After the WW2 Pakistan lent 120 million Rupees to West Germany in 1963 and Germany even requested to send 10,000 Paki labours to Germany as thier work force was depleted after the world war but we refused so they went after Turkey which agreed to send its labour.

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5 hours ago, Tommy said:

If true, well done Can - proud of you son, even if you do fuck off on a free transfer to Juve.

I think it's pretty poor to have 2 representatives of Germany palling around with a man shitting on the idea of a secular and democratic Turkey and a man who's jailing German journalists in Turkey because of criticism they've written about him. Erdogan is scum, his party is scum, and he's not someone any player who's supposed to be representing Germany should be calling "my president."

And the idea that you should support a dictator just because he's ruling your country is fucking insane. So they're either willingly letting themselves be a propaganda tool for Erdogan, which deserves no respect. Or they're too stupid to realise that's what would happen, which deserves no respect.

In short, fuck these two.

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6 hours ago, SirBalon said:

So they both went to meet a real terrorist in the flesh! :o

Imagine all the things you can ask and find out about.  It's not everyday you get to meet people like that in real life.

At the same time, I find it hard to criticise Ozil and Gundogan without knowledge of all circumstances. I mean, if they both have relatives living in Turkey and were invited by Erdogan, it could be difficult to refuse an invitation, out of fear of making the lives of their relatives tough. 

Footballers, much like most people, compromise. The 1970 Brazil team, for example, was a 100% in line with the military dictatorship, which used the title as a marketing tool for the regime. A freaking torturer was part of the staff.

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1 minute ago, El_Loco said:

At the same time, I find it hard to criticise Ozil and Gundogan without knowledge of all circumstances. I mean, if they both have relatives living in Turkey and were invited by Erdogan, it could be difficult to refuse an invitation, out of fear of making the lives of their relatives tough. 

Footballers, much like most people, compromise. The 1970 Brazil team, for example, was a 100% in line with the military dictatorship, which used the title as a marketing tool for the regime. A freaking torturer was part of the staff.

The same with the '78 Argentina side. This could be the case but I doubt it mate.

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Just now, SirBalon said:

The same with the '78 Argentina side. This could be the case but I doubt it mate.

I mean, if Ozil and Gundogan willingly served as propaganda tools, the criticism is well deserved.

My point is that it´s kind easy to criticise an authoritarian regime from the outside. But if you´re in the inside and have something to lose, the decision to resist is much more difficult.

The example you mentioned is a good one. While the final against Netherlands was being played at Monumental de Núñez, people were being tortured nearby at the Escuela de Mecánica de la Armada.

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