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Danny

How Many Goals Until A Striker Is Finished?

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So a very valid point has been raised today, Cristiano Ronaldo has scored 44 goals this season, 15 in the Champions League, 5 of those 15 in the knock out stages and has just helped win a Champions League title. Why hasn't he retired after such a pitiful showing? Hopefully Mo Salah can retire through injury to hide the embarrassment of his slightly higher goal tally of 44 goals.

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I don't think the likes of Pele and '1000 goal' Romario are finished tbqhwy

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1 in 1 is the new 1 in 2. Anything below call it a day and let someone else have a go.

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Benzema is the lead striker in a team that dominates most games. In La Liga as well where goal difference won't matter for teams that don't finish level on points with Real Madrid meaning they have less incentive to put in effort if the game's already gone. In that context you'd expect him to score a lot of goals. He scored 5 goals in the league. In 32 games.

He's always been a striker that looks bothered for about 10% of the time but he's been truly been shit this season. Karius making him score a goal in the Champions' League doesn't change that. Finished.

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The reason is that it's not about goals in all cases and since Cristiano Ronaldo has been made the showcase of this particular thread, then a lot more methodology has to be put into context.  Cristiano Ronaldo is measured by his football because when you're at the level he's created for himself with hard grafting over the years... The fact he's been eternally measured against Lionel Messi and both those players have been also been measured against the greatest of all time last and present... Then where you get benefits, you are also subjected to more scrutiny. This is how it works in all walks of life and anyone trying to validate this season purely with numbers... Numbers that were also thrown by those who've defended Griroud for example... Then all the more with Cristiano.  Where you get the benefits of being lauded amongst the gods, you are then gonna have to accept being analysed in a lot more detail because Cristiano Ronaldo isn't Olivier Giroud! 

Anyone saying this present Cristiano Rinaldo has anything in the slightest to do with the Cristiano that put him on the Mount Olympus of footballers is playing devil's advocate.  Football is more than just statistical numbers and at certain levels it's more so.

Even Real Madrid fans that have been staunch defenders of his class over the years are unanimously in agreement that this season has been poor, very poor because clusters tend to stand alone in every worldly ambience.

 

As for the real question on your more mortal footballer without making any one particular name the protagonist of the thread.  A striker (top of the range) is measured by his performances in the games that matter. Does he show up in the biggies and is he also putting them away against the mediocrity.

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10 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

The reason is that it's not about goals in all cases and since Cristiano Ronaldo has been made the showcase of this particular thread, then a lot more methodology has to be put into context.  Cristiano Ronaldo is measured by his football because when you're at the level he's created for himself with hard grafting over the years... The fact he's been eternally measured against Lionel Messi and both those players have been also been measured against the greatest of all time last and present... Then where you get benefits, you are also subjected to more scrutiny. This is how it works in all walks of life and anyone trying to validate this season purely with numbers... Numbers that were also thrown by those who've defended Griroud for example... Then all the more with Cristiano.  Where you get the benefits of being lauded amongst the gods, you are then gonna have to accept being analysed in a lot more detail because Cristiano Ronaldo isn't Olivier Giroud! 

Anyone saying this present Cristiano Rinaldo has anything in the slightest to do with the Cristiano that put him on the Mount Olympus of footballers is playing devil's advocate.  Football is more than just statistical numbers and at certain levels it's more so.

Even Real Madrid fans that have been staunch defenders of his class over the years are unanimously in agreement that this season has been poor, very poor because clusters tend to stand alone in every worldly ambience.

 

As for the real question on your more mortal footballer without making any one particular name the protagonist of the thread.  A striker (top of the range) is measured by his performances in the games that matter. Does he show up in the biggies and is he also putting them away against the mediocrity.

Lots of waffle as per.

CR7 has been 'very poor'?xD

And yes he does turn up in the big games. And yes football is more than numbers, but 44 goals, 15 in the CR7 Champions league cannot be ignored. 

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25 minutes ago, Marc said:

Lots of waffle as per.

CR7 has been 'very poor'?xD

And yes he does turn up in the big games. And yes football is more than numbers, but 44 goals, 15 in the CR7 Champions league cannot be ignored. 

nerd-calculator.jpg

:bartrapique:

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in the case of Ronaldo, this year has been "poor" for his standard that we are all accustomed to, but hey, he's going 34.    Last night though in the Finals, he could have scored but that crazy-fan ruined that opportunity for him.     And we shouldn't forget that Ronaldo was NEVER a striker, he is a Winger but gradually evolved into something more of a striker given his freedom in the pitch.   

 

as for the true strikers so to speak, the likes of Raul, Ruud, Henry, Zlatan.    the word "finished' for them maybe applied to playing in the top teams.    with the case of Raul, he was still effective in Real but had to go to make room for Ronaldo, he was  essential in Schalke but as always, strikers with that kind of aura and prestige will always end up playing in the MLS .

so, it depends on how a player ( striker ) markets himself to be able to be relevant on the twilight of his career .....

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Sirbalon and Bozziovai has just proved my point completely that I was seemingly "torn apart" in the other thread. Can we close this clueless and embarrassment of a topic now? Cheers in advance.

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Just now, Blue said:

Sirbalon and Bozziovai has just proved my point completely that I was seemingly "torn apart" in the other thread. Can we close this clueless and embarrassment of a topic now? Cheers in advance.

No.

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He's not finished but is playing nowhere near as well as the media and casual watchers of the sport would lead you to believe. He's still scoring, but also has a lot more goal scoring chances than the rest of the footballing world and is as good as the service he is provided. As an all round player though he has been offering very little and the shouts for him to win the next Ballon D'or are absolutely ridiculous. 

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19 minutes ago, The Rebel CRS said:

He's not finished but is playing nowhere near as well as the media and casual watchers of the sport would lead you to believe. He's still scoring, but also has a lot more goal scoring chances than the rest of the footballing world and is as good as the service he is provided. As an all round player though he has been offering very little and the shouts for him to win the next Ballon D'or are absolutely ridiculous. 

Shocking opinion. According to nostradaumas @Danny the only player better than him is Messi.

I don't know if he's "finished" but he's not in the top 5 of best players and I could possibly argue even top 10.

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He isn't finished for fucks sake. I know English isn't everyone's first language but I posted the damned definition of the word yesterday. 

He had a shite first half of the season, but that doesn't mean he isn't still a great player. He may be a shell of what he was but even as a shell he is still a very good forward. He has declined severley, isn't close to being the best in the world but not many players are and that doesn't discount him from being a good player. Yeah, I agree with @SirBalon he has been very poor - albeit at the standards of Real Madrid and himself, but those are exceptional standards. I will add he did finish the season strongly, with goals against Juve, Atleti, Barcelona, Villarreal, and Bilbao. A bad Ronaldo season is still better than 99% of the footballing world. Messi and Ronaldo's goal stats shoukd never be taken at face (it actually applies to all players but the later in particular) because the two stars of the Spanish sky have a propensity to score 5 goals against teams like Girona - in a league where goal differential doesn't matter.

 

If I see that fucking word misued another time I'm going to have a meltdown.

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9 minutes ago, Spike said:

He isn't finished for fucks sake. I know English isn't everyone's first language but I posted the damned definition of the word yesterday. 

He had a shite first half of the season, but that doesn't mean he isn't still a great player. He may be a shell of what he was but even as a shell he is still a very good forward. He has declined severley, isn't close to being the best in the world but not many players are and that doesn't discount him from being a good player. Yeah, I agree with @SirBalon he has been very poor - albeit at the standards of Real Madrid and himself, but those are exceptional standards. I will add he did finish the season strongly, with goals against Juve, Atleti, Barcelona, Villarreal, and Bilbao. A bad Ronaldo season is still better than 99% of the footballing world. Messi and Ronaldo's goal stats shoukd never be taken at face (it actually applies to all players but the later in particular) because the two stars of the Spanish sky have a propensity to score 5 goals against teams like Girona - in a league where goal differential doesn't matter.

 

If I see that fucking word misued another time I'm going to have a meltdown.

But he's not the second best in the world - like Danny and Chaaay very rudely tried to make clear to me.

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12 minutes ago, Spike said:

If I see that fucking word misued another time I'm going to have a meltdown.

Also, I think we've seen this too much xD ;) 

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10 minutes ago, Blue said:

But he's not the second best in the world - like Danny and Chaaay very rudely tried to make clear to me.

I didn't say that, so why are you quoting me?

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Just now, Spike said:

I didn't say that, so why are you quoting me?

because you made the latest post.

CHRIST xD

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He is quite easily one of the top two players in the world, what he has done in Europe and in Spain the last few years is staggering and to even suggest anyone other than Messi is ludicrous. There is no evidence for anyone else, barely an argument.

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3 minutes ago, Danny said:

He is quite easily one of the top two players in the world, what he has done in Europe and in Spain the last few years is staggering and to even suggest anyone other than Messi is ludicrous. There is no evidence for anyone else, barely an argument.

You should only rate recent history not 'last few years'. If you do that you reinforce what Blue is saying that he is living off the past glory which obfuscates his current ability.

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Off current ability and success, I'd take Modric, Kante, Kroos, Griezmann, De Bruyne, Silva, Suarez, Firmino, Salah, Isco, Azpilicueta, De Gea, Kimmich, Iniesta, Busqeuts and probably more over Ronaldo. 

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20 minutes ago, Spike said:

You should only rate recent history not 'last few years'. If you do that you reinforce what Blue is saying that he is living off the past glory which obfuscates his current ability.

Last two years then, doesn't really matter because he's still one of the greatest.

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Cristiano Ronaldo is definitely one of the greats and anyone trying to dispute that should never debate in a football conversation, they should choose a different interest.

Whats curious here is that the thread title right from the start has nothing to do with its eventual content.

So let's debate what's in question here... When is a striker finished?

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1 hour ago, Danny said:

He is quite easily one of the top two players in the world, what he has done in Europe and in Spain the last few years is staggering and to even suggest anyone other than Messi is ludicrous. There is no evidence for anyone else, barely an argument.

Christ watch a different sport son.

1 hour ago, Spike said:

Off current ability and success, I'd take Modric, Kante, Kroos, Griezmann, De Bruyne, Silva, Suarez, Firmino, Salah, Isco, Azpilicueta, De Gea, Kimmich, Iniesta, Busqeuts and probably more over Ronaldo. 

Not sure about Iniesta to be honest. He's not as past it as Ronaldo but I've also seen him living in past glory, he still offered a lot in recent times but was wildly inconsistent at least that's what I saw.

Id add Neymar to the list but that's just me.

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2 hours ago, Danny said:

Last two years then, doesn't really matter because he's still one of the greatest.

Also, what backtracking just to guess an opinion. Christ you are awful with this football debate thing.

I know I'm being harsh but after how rude you were to me the other way I don't feel bad!

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5 hours ago, Spike said:

Off current ability and success, I'd take Modric, Kante, Kroos, Griezmann, De Bruyne, Silva, Suarez, Firmino, Salah, Isco, Azpilicueta, De Gea, Kimmich, Iniesta, Busqeuts and probably more over Ronaldo. 

xDxDxD

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38 minutes ago, Marc said:

xDxDxD

I think the fact everyone who has seen more than 2 matches of Real Madrid is saying the exact same thing as Spike, really speaks to how wrong you, Danny and Chaaay are.

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12 minutes ago, Blue said:

I think the fact everyone who has seen more than 2 matches of Real Madrid is saying the exact same thing as Spike, really speaks to how wrong you, Danny and Chaaay are.

What about the national managers, captains and international journalists that voted for him as the best player in the world a few months ago? With more than double the votes of Messi? and then he'll more than likely win it next year too.

Did you get a vote? you're a 'journalist'

 

Firmino, Azpi, Busquets, iniesta etc over Ronaldo xD

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Just now, Marc said:

What about the national managers, captains and international journalists that voted for him as the best player in the world a few months ago? With more than double the votes of Messi? and then he'll more than likely win it next year too.

Did you get a vote? you're a 'journalist'

 

Firmino, Azpi, Busquets, iniesta etc over Ronaldo xD

Firmino and Busquets I'd comfortably take over Ronaldo. Its blatantly obvious you haven't seen Real Madrid at all this season bar in a few CL games. Ballon D'or awards are meaningless too as all you have to do is score a few influential goals and have marketability and you've won it.

You can listen to whoevers opinions you want, but don't laugh ours off if you're clueless on the matter, which you are and anything otherwise is a lie. I fully agree with Spike as Ronaldo has become so painfully limited these days compared to the past when he was dynamic, a well built all around technical player and a fantastic athlete. Now, all he has going for him is decent off the ball and good finishing, and its no coincidence all the La Liga watchers on this forum are saying the same thing as well as some very good accounts I follow on Twitter.

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