Quarter-Final - Friday 6th July - Brazil 1-2 Belgium

[Beelzebub]

Casemiro was a huge miss but Brazil & Casemiro have only themselves to blame for those yellows

[Guest]

1 minute ago, El Profesor said:

Still trying to think what gone wrong.

First of all and perhaps what decided this match was Brazil panicking after the 1st goal. The defensive organization dissolved and you can´t do that against such a talented team. Those 15 minutes cost us the match. 

Brazilian mentality is terrible, man. Always has been. There is no in between and rationality. And the 7-1 made it worse. 

Fernandinho and Neymar should share the honors of being the two worst players on the pitch. Neymar was terrible today. He slowed down the game, wasted possession and couldn´t complete one dribble. Meunier put him on his pocket. Despite being 26, he is immature and can´t lead his team at the highest level. The talent is there, but the professionalism leaves something to be desired. 

Coutinho is a funny player. He is obviously a very good footballer, but it´s tough to fit him into a system. He can´t really be winger because he´s not fast and is also easily pushed off the ball. In the midfield, he´s not creative enough. The assist was the only glimpse of creativity from him. It was irritatting to see him always trying to shoot and being blocked. Barcelona has a big problem in their hands. 

There are lot of lessons to be learned, but we always refuse to learn. We have a very good generation for 2022 and we´ll come back strong, but I wonder if those fine details needed to win the World Cup will be there. 

I´m really on the fence whether we should keep or not Tite. 

As for Belgium, at least it´s good to see their golden generation finally making it. Lukaku, Hazard, De Bruyne, Meunier, Courtois, Fellaini and Witsel were huge today. Congrats to them.

If you want to hire another Brazilian manager, then Tite staying is probably for the best. Your managerial options are gash.

[Cicero]

7 minutes ago, Devon Von Devon said:

Whats interesting is that a lot of these belgian players, they were the "golden generation" 4 years ago when they were in the 26-29 age range.

Now they are in the 30-33 age range

Hazard and KDB are both 27

Lukaku is 25. Courtois is 26. 

Carrasco is 24. Witsel is 29

You are primarily speaking of the defence, as Belgium's most influential players, are all in their prime. 

[ASF]

Really surprised by this result.

This means Europe will make it 12-9 in WC wins. Fourth consecutive WC the trophy will stay here.

The gap keeps getting bigger.

[Kowabunga]

2 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

Still trying to think what gone wrong.

First of all and perhaps what decided this match was Brazil panicking after the 1st goal. The defensive organization dissolved and you can´t do that against such a talented team. Those 15 minutes cost us the match. 

Brazilian mentality is terrible, man. Always has been. There is no in between and rationality. And the 7-1 made it worse. 

Fernandinho and Neymar should share the honors of being the two worst players on the pitch. Neymar was terrible today. He slowed down the game, wasted possession and couldn´t complete one dribble. Meunier put him on his pocket. Despite being 26, he is immature and can´t lead his team at the highest level. The talent is there, but the professionalism leaves something to be desired. 

Coutinho is a funny player. He is obviously a very good footballer, but it´s tough to fit him into a system. He can´t really be winger because he´s not fast and is also easily pushed off the ball. In the midfield, he´s not creative enough. The assist was the only glimpse of creativity from him. It was irritatting to see him always trying to shoot and being blocked. Barcelona has a big problem in their hands. 

There are lot of lessons to be learned, but we always refuse to learn. We have a very good generation for 2022 and we´ll come back strong, but I wonder if those fine details needed to win the World Cup will be there. 

I´m really on the fence whether we should keep or not Tite. 

As for Belgium, at least it´s good to see their golden generation finally making it. Lukaku, Hazard, De Bruyne, Meunier, Courtois, Fellaini and Witsel were huge today. Congrats to them.

I liked Marcelo. He offers more in offence than Neymar in 4 out of 5 games. Brazil could profit from a proper target man in 2022, which I do not think they have so far. They might add other chips adding more versatility to the midfield, but I guess the default playing style is gonna remain the same.

[Beelzebub]

Why does Martinez waits till the 80th minute or more to make a sub ? 

[El Profesor]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

If you want to hire another Brazilian manager, then Tite staying is probably for the best. Your managerial options are gash.

Brazil hiring a foreigner coach is simply not an option. You know that. 

And I agree, our options are bad. In the end of the day, keeping Tite is probably the best decision, but man, he needs to take a really hard look at some of his decisions. I mean, even an amateur like me could see that the midfield was setup was not working. And keeping Firmino on the bench for an inoffensive Gabriel Jesus was truly laughable. 

If I have to look at the positives, well, at least Thiago Silva proved himself during this World Cup. He´s the best brazilian defender of his generation and hopefully he will be recognized as such. It´ll be very tough to replace him. 

And Renato Augusto and Douglas Costa, in special, showed huge hearts. Man, Douglas Costa was a lion today. He was much better than our main stars, Coutinho and Neymar. Great footballer and showed the right mentality. Loved him today. 

[Stan]

2 minutes ago, Devon Von Devon said:

Why does Martinez waits till the 80th minute or more to make a sub ? 

just in case it went to extra time I guess.

[Beelzebub]

Just now, Stan said:

just in case it went to extra time I guess.

When your'e 2-0 up ? He even does that in friendlies how about someone to protect tired legs, or fresh legs on the counter, or any tactical changes?

[Machado]

Fagner didn't show up in the attack the whole game. Shown up today for his limitations. Danilo missed big time.

[El Profesor]

3 minutes ago, Kowabunga said:

I liked Marcelo. He offers more in offence than Neymar in 4 out of 5 games. Brazil could profit from a proper target man in 2022, which I do not think they have so far. They might add other chips adding more versatility to the midfield, but I guess the default playing style is gonna remain the same.

Marcelo was good offensively, but Lukaku explored his back, he was alwways left unmarked. Maybe Filipe Luís was the best fit to play in our left side. 

I think Neymar takes a bit from Marcelo´s football. They end up being redundant in the left, it´s funny this. The association of Neymar with the left-back is very difficult. Neymar slows down the game, holds the ball for too long, this hurts Marcelo.

[Kowabunga]

 

 

[SirBalon]

3 minutes ago, Kowabunga said:

 

 

Is that muppet still alive? 

[Kowabunga]

12 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

Marcelo was good offensively, but Lukaku explored his back, he was alwways left unmarked. Maybe Filipe Luís was the best fit to play in our left side. 

I think Neymar takes a bit from Marcelo´s football. They end up being redundant in the left, it´s funny this. The association of Neymar with the left-back is very difficult. Neymar slows down the game, holds the ball for too long, this hurts Marcelo.

He was the whole offensive cog when Brazil were pushing during the second half providing for Costa, Firmino, and Augusto. When Neymar is in the hit-and-miss-or-fall-kind of dribbling duel the offensive game collapses, particularly as you say any well oiled synergy with the left back. Marcelo has a better awareness of moving players in the later end than Neymar and sees spaces with ease. I should review the defence, although the way I recalled it, it was more of a Miranda vs Lukaku struggle.

[Kowabunga]

15 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

Is that muppet still alive? 

Friendly reminder he's always there looking to jinx you. 

[El Profesor]

6 minutes ago, Kowabunga said:

He was the whole offensive cog when Brazil were pushing during the second half providing for Costa, Firmino, and Augusto. When Neymar is in the hit-and-miss-or-fall-kind of dribbling duel the offensive game collapses, particularly as you say any well oiled synergy with the left back. Marcelo has a better awareness of moving player in the later end than Neymar and creates spaces with ease. I should review the defence, although the way I recalled it, it was more of a Miranda vs Lukaku struggle.

You´re right about Marcelo. Re-thinking now, calmer, yes, I recognize, he was the player who was organizing the team offensively.

And yes, Miranda vs Lukaku was a beautiful duel. But it was always on the left, behind Marcelo´s back. Martínez is a smart coach, he used really well the spaces left by Marcelo in the defensive phase. Marcelo is one of the best the best LB I´ve ever seen, but he struggles to return to defence when his teams loses possession. At times, he struggles with the physical demands of the position. 

In the end of the day, we brazilians should eat a humble pie and recognize that while we´re still very strong, other nations also have great players and great teams. There is absolutely no shame in losing to this Belgium side, especially after that very strong 2nd half Brazil had.

My fears ended up being true. The Japan match is a huge wake-up call to Belgium, it exposed their weaknesses, Martínez diagnosed them correctly and made the correct adjustments. 

[SirBalon]

In my view Marcelo is a hindrance to any team but this is nothing new coming from me.

 Have to ask yourself what formation you're playing with Marcelo first and foremost because it definitely isn't a back four.

Finally, I've seen him get burned defensively even when he is back in his position which means that although he is tremendous going forward, he's terrible at the back, not even ok.  For me that's not a good selection and in the last World Cup he was a hindrance in that aspect for Brazil.  Filipe Luis is a more balanced option.  This isn't the FIFA game for games consoles.

[Kowabunga]

4 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

In my view Marcelo is a hindrance to any team but this is nothing new coming from me.

In any case, yes, he leaves spaces at the back and you could be best served siding him with a centre back partner faster than Miranda, but man, the above is ridiculous, Marcelo has won himself lots of UCL games for Real Madrid. Offensively he is a WMD.

 

[Stan]

Just now, Teso dos Bichos said:

 ANY team would love to have a player like him. Antonio will never give Marcelo or Casemiro any credit, it's crazy but understandable

have you ever given Barcelona players any credit  

[El Profesor]

Pingo is is very sad for being out of the World Cup.   

 

 

 

 

 

[El Profesor]

8 minutes ago, Teso dos Bichos said:

 ANY team would love to have a player like him. Antonio will never give Marcelo or Casemiro any credit, it's crazy but understandable

I think today´s match proved how good Casemiro is. Brazil really missed him. He and Thiago Silva were the best brazilian players in this World Cup. 

 

[Cicero]

Eden Hazard has delivered the most successful take-ons in a world cup since 1966 

[Stan]

Just now, Teso dos Bichos said:

https://talkfootball365.com/topic/2246-copa-del-rey-2018-sevilla-0-5-barcelona/?do=findComment&comment=151142

 

fair enough. just that I see you constantly say 'Antonio doesn't do this, Antonio doesn't do that' when it comes to Madrid players (as above with Marcelo/Casemiro). But it's rare you'll give Barca players credit I've noticed; however you'll go out of your way it seems to downplay them even if they weren't the worst player in the team. 

[Dr. Gonzo]

1 hour ago, El Profesor said:

Brazil hiring a foreigner coach is simply not an option. You know that. 

And I agree, our options are bad. In the end of the day, keeping Tite is probably the best decision, but man, he needs to take a really hard look at some of his decisions. I mean, even an amateur like me could see that the midfield was setup was not working. And keeping Firmino on the bench for an inoffensive Gabriel Jesus was truly laughable. 

If I have to look at the positives, well, at least Thiago Silva proved himself during this World Cup. He´s the best brazilian defender of his generation and hopefully he will be recognized as such. It´ll be very tough to replace him. 

And Renato Augusto and Douglas Costa, in special, showed huge hearts. Man, Douglas Costa was a lion today. He was much better than our main stars, Coutinho and Neymar. Great footballer and showed the right mentality. Loved him today. 

I'd sack Tite just for the Jesus over Firmino shite. 4 matches before today and all of them showed that 1.) Firmino was more effective than Jesus, and 2.) Brazil play better with him on the pitch.

Neymar was a disgrace today. Before this match, at least you could point to his moments of brilliance and being a difference maker. Today he was fucking shite.

Brazil had SO many chances. And that Coutinho miss sort of typified how Brazil played for most of the match barring their goal - good work in front of goal and then awful finishing to end each move. Between that and the own goal, the players must be kicking themselves. Having said that, Belgium looked by far the better side at half time and were deserved winners.

[Kowabunga]

47 minutes ago, El Profesor said:

You´re right about Marcelo. Re-thinking now, calmer, yes, I recognize, he was the player who was organizing the team offensively.

And yes, Miranda vs Lukaku was a beautiful duel. But it was always on the left, behind Marcelo´s back. Martínez is a smart coach, he used really well the spaces left by Marcelo in the defensive phase. Marcelo is one of the best the best LB I´ve ever seen, but he struggles to return to defence when his teams loses possession. At times, he struggles with the physical demands of the position. 

In the end of the day, we brazilians should eat a humble pie and recognize that while we´re still very strong, other nations also have great players and great teams. There is absolutely no shame in losing to this Belgium side, especially after that very strong 2nd half Brazil had.

My fears ended up being true. The Japan match is a huge wake-up call to Belgium, it exposed their weaknesses, Martínez diagnosed them correctly and made the correct adjustments. 

Brazil is highly dependant of what that the 3/4 line can do. They are one tricky pony of agression, suffocation and reliable defence plus übertalent particularly concentrated in that line. Plus the fear inspired in rivals, that's already quite a lot in order to reach later stages of a world cup. But at some point you've to wonder if Neymar is dependable as "leader" to bring the hexa. I am not keen of bullfighting but when he faces defenders he tends to act like he is going to pin the "banderillas" on the bull and gets horned 80%. Very frustrating.

They have many offensive players at their disposal but I don't necessarily think they match "really" well. But apparently there are several players of "talent" coming from Brazil (you should know better than anyone if it is the case), so there are many chances for revamping things for 2022 if needed. They've got a nice keeper already and that's quite an advance to put next to rock solid centre backs. Featuring players as deeplying midfielders with a different skillset in the squad could be interesting in order to have a "plan B" if things go south.