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English Football's retrograde direction


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I can't speak in generalities, but personally if I would see England fans in another country, I would stay clear.

I remember getting stuck with this old skinhead bastard when I was sitting in a bar in Barcelona quietly watching the England-Russia match last year and he overheard my Scottish accent (we were sitting at pretty much adjacent tables). 

Nothing really came of it. Me and my pal left early - probably for the best, since he was getting more aggressive in his comments to us (it went from kinda the usual teasing to a bit more sinister as the match lingered at 1-0) and I wonder how he would have reacted if we were there when Russia equalised. 

 

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Tuesday - Dortmund fans taking in Monaco fans for the night and Monaco fans singing 'Dortmund, Dortmund' in support of Marc Bartra and Borussia Dortmund. 

Wednesday - Leicester fans sing 'Ten German Bombers' and 'Gibraltar is ours' in Madrid. 

English fans are window licking degenerates. 

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Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will raise my blood pressure.

WUMing chants are a substitute for violence and a by product of not actually dealing with the causes of hooliganism but just blocking the violence and leaving it at that. Often the metods used to do that reinforces the current culture, such as segregation.

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You say that, til you play Portugal and they sing about the Westminster killings, then all of a sudden it's "Disgraceful Portuguese, completely classless ect" Then back to sticks and stones when singing 10 german bombers

 

English thugs causing trouble in spain, get busted up by the cops "fun loving lads getting brutalized unfairly"

Get attacked by russian thugs and it's "they shouldn't be allowed in the country"

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That post is blinded by stereotyping and cognitive short cuts so it is impossible to have any discussion.

Do you seriously think I don't believe anyone English commits any actual law breaking crimes? 

The German bombers chant is immoral and punishment is correct. The Gibraltar chant isn't even remotely immoral.

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48 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will raise my blood pressure.

WUMing chants are a substitute for violence and a by product of not actually dealing with the causes of hooliganism but just blocking the violence and leaving it at that. Often the metods used to do that reinforces the current culture, such as segregation.

WUM'ing chants are a substitute for intelligence, nothing more. 

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11 minutes ago, Smiley Culture said:

WUM'ing chants are a substitute for intelligence, nothing more. 

There's no singular intelligence but even if we take generalisations about how intelligent someone is we will find smarter people on those terms than you and me chanting these things.

It is completely wrong to write off the role of culture in behaviour. Even what you think is right and wrong is not solely the product of your intelligence but is dependent on your social influences.

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Sadly England remains a racist country fearful of integration and a loss of identity. Brexit showed that in abundance. People spouting "send the foreigners back" nonsense. 

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14 minutes ago, HoneyNUFC said:

Even what you think is right and wrong is not solely the product of your intelligence but is dependent on your social influences.

That's an even sadder state of affairs and actually confirms perceptions of English society in other European countries.

My question is do only idiots travel abroad with their clubs?  Or is there some faulty chip in many people where they go abroad their inferiority complex shines through and it all turns into a short circuit of so many errors in the make-up of the original software.

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36 minutes ago, SirBalon said:

That's an even sadder state of affairs and actually confirms perceptions of English society in other European countries.

My question is do only idiots travel abroad with their clubs?  Or is there some faulty chip in many people where they go abroad their inferiority complex shines through and it all turns into a short circuit of so many errors in the make-up of the original software.

I've been to over 50 away games with the largest numbers of this type of support in the country and can tell you there are pockets of groups that are always on the cusp of crossing the line. I've seen that line crossed before by a couple of people and by dozens of people. I've seen things very very quickly escalate. I've seen superb policing and stewarding nip things in the bud straight away and I've seen awful policing and awful stewarding lead to my own safety put at risk. 

These groups are like a bear and the worst thing you can do is cover yourself in honey and poke it. 

Commentators often make the mistake of thinking that everything is fine at home but they are actually always a couple of bad moves from exploding. 

We have expertise in this country that stems from experience. The coppers are sitting on the lid of a box keeping it shut. In countries like Spain, Italy and France they don't know what they're doing. I've watched closely at away games as some individuals are clearly testing boundaries, they test the coppers, they test the stewards and if they smell weakness they will take control. 

As I said earlier we didn't deal with the hooligan culture problem in this country, we just put them in a box and let them bang on the lid as long as the lid doesn't open. Over time that has caused this stick your fingers up wum from your safe zone behaviour that has sucked in people who aren't violent, whilst the hooligan themselves do a little test to see what they can get away with escalating. They're not dumb they are actually pretty astute, they know how to avoid arrest and banning orders.

Any police force that turns up in riot gear to a couple of bars of 100 people is basically saying let's crack this lid open and have a go. Then the press say what's the problem with English people abroad?

Start with the cultural problem at home.

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