The Palace Fan 3,402 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Very few players seem to divide opinion like Xhaka at the moment. Should he keep his place in Unai Emery's starting line-up? Or do his weaknesses outweigh his strengths? @SirBalon @Panna King @Gunnersauraus @Chaaay AFC @...Dan @shut up @Asura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I don't know that it divides opinion because everyone knows what he can and can't do. Everyone that watches the Premier League knows these things. The question is, should Arsenal have ever signed him? The answer to that one is no although in the end we converted ourselves in a team that befitted a signing of his qualities. For me the biggest issue is not understanding what type of midfielder he is because he's not optimum at anything and he was signed to bolster a challenge for competing for the Premier League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Seems to be Arsenal's "Mikel" Just useless and stagnates the team rather improves them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Gonzo 8,184 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Cicero said: Seems to be Arsenal's "Mikel" Just useless and stagnates the team rather improves them. John Obi Mikel actually had some good matches. Can’t say the same for Xhaka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero 5,267 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said: John Obi Mikel actually had some good matches. Can’t say the same for Xhaka. He has. Bloke turns into Pirlo every time they play us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaaay AFC 357 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I think he is nowhere near as bad as people claim he is, I just believe he needs a team built to his needs for him to thrive. He had that at Gladbach always playing in a three and for Switzerland where he is such a key player they give him what is required. I don't really know if we can afford to do that now. A midfield two of him and Torreira could be the making of him, but then you're sacrificing Ozil or Ramsey who are superior to Xhaka. It's a conundrum for Emery and one he will need to figure out. Overall I find him to be a niche footballer, his passing through the lines and build-up from the back is top drawer, but he always has that devastating mistake in him. Emery has made him one of his 5 captains though so we will see how he does through the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, Chaaay AFC said: I think he is nowhere near as bad as people claim he is, I just believe he needs a team built to his needs for him to thrive. He had that at Gladbach always playing in a three and for Switzerland where he is such a key player they give him what is required. I don't really know if we can afford to do that now. A midfield two of him and Torreira could be the making of him, but then you're sacrificing Ozil or Ramsey who are superior to Xhaka. It's a conundrum for Emery and one he will need to figure out. Overall I find him to be a niche footballer, his passing through the lines and build-up from the back is top drawer, but he always has that devastating mistake in him. Emery has made him one of his 5 captains though so we will see how he does through the season. So for us to get the most out of Xhaka we should build the team around him? I know you’re bot saying that or even believe that but that’s how it reads mate. He’s crap but he wouldn’t get into any top midfield anywhere in the top 3 leagues. (The top teams vying for what the resources mark) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaaay AFC 357 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, SirBalon said: So for us to get the most out of Xhaka we should build the team around him? I know you’re bot saying that or even believe that but that’s how it reads mate. He’s crap but he wouldn’t get into any top midfield anywhere in the top 3 leagues. (The top teams vying for what the resources mark) No I don't, not good enough to be built around, I like him but I'm starting to believe he is not at the level we are striving to or want to be. Torreira on the other hand from what I have seen so far is exactly the player we need to be continuing to pursuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Chaaay AFC said: No I don't, not good enough to be built around, I like him but I'm starting to believe he is not at the level we are striving to or want to be. Torreira on the other hand from what I have seen so far is exactly the player we need to be continuing to pursuit. I agree and that’s why we should cash in on Xhaka as there will be clubs in the Premier League like West Ham for example that will fork out a sum he’s not worth. Torreira is our man and he DOES look the business and am very happy with him. We just need (along with Ramsey) a couple more top notch deals in the same vein as Torreira as our midfield is very unbalanced. I know you won’t agree but if we could get £30m or £40m for Özil, we would jump a hurdle on our way to recovering stability in our football. Özil’s status and ridiculous wages means he has to play and we need other attributes and a different type of player altogether. Trust me mate... As good as your Özils are on their day, we could achieve a lot more with something more in tune with your Jorginho’s of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaaay AFC 357 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Just now, SirBalon said: I agree and that’s why we should cash in on Xhaka as there will be clubs in the Premier League like West Ham for example that will fork out a sum he’s not worth. Torreira is our man and he DOES look the business and am very happy with him. We just need (along with Ramsey) a couple more top notch deals in the same vein as Torreira as our midfield is very unbalanced. I know you won’t agree but if we could get £30m or £40m for Özil, we would jump a hurdle on our way to recovering stability in our football. Özil’s status and ridiculous wages means he has to play and we need other attributes and a different type of player altogether. Trust me mate... As good as your Özils are on their day, we could achieve a lot more with something more in tune with your Jorginho’s of this world. Honestly we have a lot of imbalance, even up top and in defence. Currently we have a poorly constructed squad and will needs lots of fine tuning. I'm not totally against your Ozil idea as well, £350k p/w for him is staggeringly bad business. Keeping Wenger on another season was disastrous and pushed our rebuild back years for me. Honestly the only purchase I'm totally happy about in the past 3 windows is Torreira. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura 319 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Gives away the ball way too easily and cant put in a decent tackle most of the time to win the ball or close the opponent. Both Ozil and Xhaka share the same weaknesses for me and I would love to get them both replaced in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Cicero said: He has. Bloke turns into Pirlo every time they play us. That's the thing. If people judge him on his whole game then he regularly plays well. He dictates the play from midfield and he does a good job at that. That type of play doesn't make Match Of The Day highlights though. The times he gives away the ball makes the highlights. Even when there's load of time between the ball being given away and the opposition actually doing something, that loose pass will still be the focus which is unfair. His passing stats are quite high and he doesn't just pass it sideways (even though he probably should sometimes). Overall he's a solid player who regularly delivers 7/10 performances and sometimes 8/10s. He's not a top shelf player but his general performance doesn't really drop to a standard worthy of the criticism he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Chaaay AFC said: I think he is nowhere near as bad as people claim he is, I just believe he needs a team built to his needs for him to thrive. He had that at Gladbach always playing in a three and for Switzerland where he is such a key player they give him what is required. I don't really know if we can afford to do that now. A midfield two of him and Torreira could be the making of him, but then you're sacrificing Ozil or Ramsey who are superior to Xhaka. It's a conundrum for Emery and one he will need to figure out. Overall I find him to be a niche footballer, his passing through the lines and build-up from the back is top drawer, but he always has that devastating mistake in him. Emery has made him one of his 5 captains though so we will see how he does through the season. Looking at the squad I'm surprised Emery didn't go for a diamond formation. Torreira at the base, Xhaka & Ramsey in front of him and then Ozil or Mkhitaryan at the highest point. Also allows Aubameyang & Lacazette to start upfront together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura 319 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 2 hours ago, 6666 said: That's the thing. If people judge him on his whole game then he regularly plays well. He dictates the play from midfield and he does a good job at that. That type of play doesn't make Match Of The Day highlights though. The times he gives away the ball makes the highlights. Even when there's load of time between the ball being given away and the opposition actually doing something, that loose pass will still be the focus which is unfair. His passing stats are quite high and he doesn't just pass it sideways (even though he probably should sometimes). Overall he's a solid player who regularly delivers 7/10 performances and sometimes 8/10s. He's not a top shelf player but his general performance doesn't really drop to a standard worthy of the criticism he gets. Is there an Arsenal player that you think isnt worthy of playing for the club ? Im curious to know especially after how you defended Ozil, Xhaka and also Walcott in the past. If I remember correctly you also said Chambers was good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 9 hours ago, Asura said: Is there an Arsenal player that you think isnt worthy of playing for the club ? Im curious to know especially after how you defended Ozil, Xhaka and also Walcott in the past. If I remember correctly you also said Chambers was good enough. If people want to disagree with points others make then that's fair but you'd have to actually pay attention to those points first. I know threads like this are created by posters to receive approval of their own opinions but that doesn't mean opposing views are somehow taboo. "Why are you putting up a defence for a player?" doesn't really work on forum. And I'll reiterate what I said, he's not a top shelf player but his general performance isn't worthy of being labeled a "bad player". That's easy to spot when watching the games and the passing stats and stats when it comes to involvement in chance creation supports that. You can decide not to take any of that into account and have your own opinion based on your feelings. We all have our own methods of judging players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaaay AFC 357 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 13 hours ago, 6666 said: Looking at the squad I'm surprised Emery didn't go for a diamond formation. Torreira at the base, Xhaka & Ramsey in front of him and then Ozil or Mkhitaryan at the highest point. Also allows Aubameyang & Lacazette to start upfront together. I think in this current football climate you have to be very strong defensively or play pretty defensive football to pull off a 4-4-2. I just don't think we have the defensive capabilities or personell to make it work currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inverted 1,776 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I think he's a good player but he wouldn't be the first to thrive in a compact counter attacking system and struggle moving up to a top-tier team looking to dominate matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asura 319 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, 6666 said: If people want to disagree with points others make then that's fair but you'd have to actually pay attention to those points first. I know threads like this are created by posters to receive approval of their own opinions but that doesn't mean opposing views are somehow taboo. "Why are you putting up a defence for a player?" doesn't really work on forum. And I'll reiterate what I said, he's not a top shelf player but his general performance isn't worthy of being labeled a "bad player". That's easy to spot when watching the games and the passing stats and stats when it comes to involvement in chance creation supports that. You can decide not to take any of that into account and have your own opinion based on your feelings. We all have our own methods of judging players. I was only trying to see if there is any player you dont like in the current squad but you havent named any. So, it gives me an opinion that you will find atleast one positive aspect in every player based on your post above. Nothing wrong about it though, I was jut curious to know, that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Palace Fan 3,402 Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, 6666 said: If people want to disagree with points others make then that's fair but you'd have to actually pay attention to those points first. I know threads like this are created by posters to receive approval of their own opinions but that doesn't mean opposing views are somehow taboo. "Why are you putting up a defence for a player?" doesn't really work on forum. I literally stated no opinion whatsoever and led the question to encourage diverse opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Tommy 12,610 Posted September 12, 2018 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2018 Does he still pick up yellow cards like his life depended on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirBalon 2,692 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 39 minutes ago, Tommy said: Does he still pick up yellow cards like his life depended on it? Some of that has died down somewhat and in truth because of our (Arsenal Football Club) loss in media attention for obvious reasons. It doesn't all get as much attention anymore like it did at one point. That's actually good for Xhaka because he now doesn't feel that his terrible decisions are in the media spotlight and he can concentrate more on football. He isn't top end and never will be but if we at Arsenal did get more in terms of top end then he would be a good squad member to have as I always said with Olivier Giroud. Our problem was that this type of player was signed as a solution so as to challenge and this was a big error considering the direction we were obviously on course for and made to be ignored because we managed to keep qualifying for the Champions League but never really making a move to improve to challenge in the winning stakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMadLad 2,080 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 He's not good enough to be a starter at Arsenal and I think most Arsenal fans have admitted that, certainly on here. But as a squad player he's more than decent either to come off the bench or rotate/rest players against the lower clubs in the league. Arsenal would also probably get a decent fee for him if they decided to sell in the future, so overall I'd mark him down as a very decent squad player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, The Palace Fan said: I literally stated no opinion whatsoever and led the question to encourage diverse opinion. Just be grateful he didn't call you stupid for not saying an Arsenal player is unquestionably brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6666 1,310 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, The Artful Dodger said: Just be grateful he didn't call you stupid for not saying an Arsenal player is unquestionably brilliant. I still find it funny how you always manage to rattle yourself regardless of what I say. Or if I don't even say anything. You're a weird one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artful Dodger 1,831 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 hours ago, 6666 said: I still find it funny how you always manage to rattle yourself regardless of what I say. Or if I don't even say anything. You're a weird one. I know this forum likes the word rattle but you flatter yourself, it's boss knowing exactly what you'll say in every thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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