Everton Discussion

[Stan]

Doucoure out for 6-7 weeks with a foot injury.

Big miss for them. I remember him being quite a pivotal player last season and Everton really missed him when he was out with injury.

Same for this season - I'd guess along with Richarlison, Townsend and perhaps Gray, he's been one of your most important players @RandoEFC?

[RandoEFC+]

Yeah this season can start to get fucked with the rumours that Calvert-Lewin is out for a lot longer than expected too. We have nobody who can come close to standing in for Doucoure in midfield.

[Stan]

4 minutes ago, RandoEFC said:

Yeah this season can start to get fucked with the rumours that Calvert-Lewin is out for a lot longer than expected too. We have nobody who can come close to standing in for Doucoure in midfield.

what's the deal with Gbamin?

Still injured?

[RandoEFC+]

 

43 minutes ago, Stan said:

what's the deal with Gbamin?

Still injured?

He's had a couple of injuries through the start of the season, he's been on the bench but I don't think he's that high in the pecking order. I think there's a player in there still but no chance he comes in and fills Doucoure's role for several weeks, he's more of a deep-lying midfielder and doesn't have the more explosive side to his game as much. Gomes is probably the closest substitute but lacks the physicality. He has had a decent start to the season, the best he's played since his injury in my opinion, but he's also missed a couple with injury. Davies can do a job alongside Allan but again, he just offers far less than Doucoure and is prone to having particularly bad days. Then there's Delph, the less said the better.

Doucoure is probably underrated outside the club, but then he probably hasn't ever sustained a level of performance like he's shown so far this season for long enough to really get noticed. He's been like a low-key Yaya Toure for us when we've played well. He had an off day against West Ham this weekend and we suffered a lot from it. I think in terms of replicating the performances from the start of the season where we surrendered a lot of possession but really got at teams on the counter attack, we can pretty much forget about being as effective in that sense as long as he's injured and we'll probably have to make reasonably big adaptations to how we play.

[RandoEFC+]

 

LOL. Relegation scrap.

[Stan]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

 

LOL. Relegation scrap.

Was he even doing well recently? 

Heard/seen some comments that after his early season form hitting the ground running (and complimenting Townsend), he's tailed off and gone back to being a bit average... 

[RandoEFC+]

41 minutes ago, Stan said:

Was he even doing well recently? 

Heard/seen some comments that after his early season form hitting the ground running (and complimenting Townsend), he's tailed off and gone back to being a bit average... 

He's tailed off a bit but I wouldn't say he's been poor. Thing is that average is something worth fighting for when the backup is Iwobi.

[Whiskey]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Was he even doing well recently? 

Heard/seen some comments that after his early season form hitting the ground running (and complimenting Townsend), he's tailed off and gone back to being a bit average... 

He's been quality, a real bright spark tbh. Bit of a shitter that he's become out 7482nd injury of the season.

[Chickasaw]

Such a difficult team to predict.

[RandoEFC+]

On 28/11/2021 at 22:36, Chickasaw said:

Such a difficult team to predict.

No.

[RandoEFC+]

 

 

Etc. Etc. Good on them but we'll see how many do it. I can see it being quite a lot to be fair.

[Whiskey]

Spot on, it's time that actual action was taken.

[The Palace Fan]

19 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

 

 

Etc. Etc. Good on them but we'll see how many do it. I can see it being quite a lot to be fair.

 

I think you come across as a bit ungrateful by saying 'good on them' to be honest. 

Let's look at some of those teams in the Premier League in the mid 90's since you last won a trophy that were arguably at one time or another in a similar position to yourselves. Leeds United, Nottingham Forest, Derby County, Aston Villa. They've all experienced a lot more hardship than yourselves over that period and that is largely down to the way Bill Kenwright and others around him have guided your club to making the key correct decisions when necessary to largely keep you a top half club for the majority of that time frame.

As for what's happened since Farhad Moshiri bought the club, well, how many times in that period were Everton fans happy with the transfer business they had done at the time? How many times have people claimed 'Everton have won the transfer window'? How many people criticised the appointment of Carlo Ancelotti? Yes, you're having to cut back now because of FFP but progress is still being made. Rafa Benitez for example appears to be conducting an overhaul of your medical staff which seems paramount given your track record of repeated injuries. Ambition from Moshiri and other board members certainly isn't the problem.

I understand the board made a divisive appointment in Benitez and the team are going through a bad period with injuries to key players but they'll get through this. The starting eleven on paper is still a top half Premier League club. To stage a walk out because you haven't won a trophy despite staying in the top flight for the last 842 years just makes your fan base look arrogant and ungrateful to the large majority of people who will show no sympathy towards your situation.

[Waylander]

19 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

 

Etc. Etc. Good on them but we'll see how many do it. I can see it being quite a lot to be fair.

Chelsea no decent trophies between 1971- 1997 when we won the FA Cup, if it helps.

97 was also under Bates not  Abramovich. 

[RandoEFC+]

11 minutes ago, The Palace Fan said:

 

I think you come across as a bit ungrateful by saying 'good on them' to be honest. 

Let's look at some of those teams in the Premier League in the mid 90's since you last won a trophy that were arguably at one time or another in a similar position to yourselves. Leeds United, Nottingham Forest, Derby County, Aston Villa. They've all experienced a lot more hardship than yourselves over that period and that is largely down to the way Bill Kenwright and others around him have guided your club to making the key correct decisions when necessary to largely keep you a top half club for the majority of that time frame.

As for what's happened since Farhad Moshiri bought the club, well, how many times in that period were Everton fans happy with the transfer business they had done at the time? How many times have people claimed 'Everton have won the transfer window'? How many people criticised the appointment of Carlo Ancelotti? Yes, you're having to cut back now because of FFP but progress is still being made. Rafa Benitez for example appears to be conducting an overhaul of your medical staff which seems paramount given your track record of repeated injuries. Ambition from Moshiri and other board members certainly isn't the problem.

I understand the board made a divisive appointment in Benitez and the team are going through a bad period with injuries to key players but they'll get through this. The starting eleven on paper is still a top half Premier League club. To stage a walk out because you haven't won a trophy despite staying in the top flight for the last 842 years just makes your fan base look arrogant and ungrateful to the large majority of people who will show no sympathy towards your situation.

This is really one of those situations where you can't understand from outside the club. Like when people spent the last few years telling Palace fans they should be grateful to have Hodgson as manager indefinitely because why should you expect anything like exciting football or a bit of ambition when there are clubs who can't stay in the Premier League?

With all due respect, opinions from outside the fanbase are meaningless. I couldn't give a shit how much sympathy we get from the rest of the league, let alone two.

The bottom line is, we've spent most of the Moshiri era being laughed at. We've spent more than even some of the elite teams in Europe. The owner makes the same mistakes again and again and there's no accountability. Kenwright hangs around like a bad smell, always trying to keep his spoon in the pot without showing a hint of embarrassment that he's synonymous with the least successful era in the club's history while simultaneously claiming to be the biggest Blue ever.

What would you do? Sit politely and accept the slow decline in league position? Keep yourself warm at night because at least Nottingham Forest have had it worse?

"Arrogant" "Ungrateful". Give over. The fanbase of a club that's still in the top five most successful English clubs ever, despite a generation of borderline sabotage from an incompetent boardroom, doesn't have to whore out their gratitude to an owner who's taking the club backwards and hides from us behind his text messages to Jim White, regardless of how much money he's got or how many stadiums he promises to build. The protest isn't even against him or his stated aims for the club, its just to try and get him to communicate with the fans and make some basic but necessary changes to the running of the club.

Here's a more clear explanation:

To summarise though, walking out of a game once in response to the club delivering shite for 27 years is not a disproportionate response, and it really isn't feasible that people who don't support Everton and haven't lived this for that extent of time are at all well-placed to look down their nose and sit in judgement of fans who care about and follow the club making what's ultimately a pretty small protest at what they've seen.

[RandoEFC+]

14 minutes ago, Waylander said:

Chelsea no decent trophies between 1971- 1997 when we won the FA Cup, if it helps.

97 was also under Bates not  Abramovich. 

Again, it's not just about the lack of trophies. That's where the 27 is coming from and is the headline symptom of the club's decline.

Second, Chelsea, Forest, Hashtag FC, nobody cares. The protest is about Everton Football Club and how Everton fans feel about the club. There are other clubs doing better or worse, nobody cares. The fanbase has sat idly by and continued to sell out home and away for years and years. They're entitled to make a small protest to express their dissatisfaction without fans of other clubs giving us a seal of approval. Nobody has any right to tell you what are and aren't reasonable feelings about your football club.

If 1990s Chelsea or modern day Nottingham Forest or Derby County want to stage a walkout or a protest against their ownership then they can do what they want. I wouldn't be arsed at all and if I was interested, I might express confusion, but I'd never presume to claim they were out of order or ungrateful because other clubs have it worse (e.g. hey at least you don't support Bury or Wimbledon) because they have the right to want a higher bar for their club.

Edited December 4, 2021 by RandoEFC

[Dr. Gonzo]

When the premier league started didn’t Everton have more league titles than United and Arsenal?

They were (and still are) one of the biggest clubs in the country. They’ve been utterly robbed of their ambition by greedy and lazy ownership in the premier league era.

I’m honestly surprised it’s taken THIS long. United go 7 years without a title and they show up to Woodward’s house, etc…

[Danny]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

When the premier league started didn’t Everton have more league titles than United and Arsenal?

They were (and still are) one of the biggest clubs in the country. They’ve been utterly robbed of their ambition by greedy and lazy ownership in the premier league era.

I’m honestly surprised it’s taken THIS long. United go 7 years without a title and they show up to Woodward’s house, etc…

They had one less than Arsenal, the perennial once or twice a decade title winners until they moved into the new stadium. Completely agree with this and disagree with @The Palace Fan, Everton aren't like Derby, Forest or Leeds. They are much bigger and have every right to wonder why the likes of Arsenal and United took off past them and they turned into a midtable club.

I think if you're born in the 90s it's easy to view Everton as a medium sized club in that of Leeds or Newcastle, but they are essentially the 3rd biggest club in the country just ahead of Spurs not including the oil rich clubs. They should be better and the fans have every right to complain at any of the leadership that is keeping them as a middling club in this division.

[The Palace Fan]

I have to disagree with the notion that success from the 80s and before should have any bearing on a clubs expectation to be honest given how quickly the growth of the Premier League has stripped competition with the emergence of big four, big six etc. over time.

Maybe if Everton did appoint Arsene Wenger or sign Eric Cantona they wouldn't have fallen away from Arsenal or Manchester United but I dont see how reflecting on moments in history like that really help anyone. United nearly sacked Fergie and David Dean has admitted he got fortunate with Wenger. Those decisions enabled them to kick on at a time when the global brand was expanding. From memory they kicked off about falling behind in 1998 when they nearly went down and quite rightly too as they situation was a lot more dire than this.

I'm as guilty as anyone for winding up Everton fans about being boring but they've still has some good moments under David Moyes leadership and the initial part of Roberto Martinez leadership. Hopefully they'll get through this turgid period, Doucoure and Calvert-Lewin will return and they'll push on for a top eight finish with a good cup run. Which given the situation Carlo Ancelotti dropped on them should be reflected as a good season.

[The Palace Fan]

1 hour ago, RandoEFC said:

This is really one of those situations where you can't understand from outside the club. Like when people spent the last few years telling Palace fans they should be grateful to have Hodgson as manager indefinitely because why should you expect anything like exciting football or a bit of ambition when there are clubs who can't stay in the Premier League?

With all due respect, opinions from outside the fanbase are meaningless. I couldn't give a shit how much sympathy we get from the rest of the league, let alone two.

The bottom line is, we've spent most of the Moshiri era being laughed at. We've spent more than even some of the elite teams in Europe. The owner makes the same mistakes again and again and there's no accountability. Kenwright hangs around like a bad smell, always trying to keep his spoon in the pot without showing a hint of embarrassment that he's synonymous with the least successful era in the club's history while simultaneously claiming to be the biggest Blue ever.

What would you do? Sit politely and accept the slow decline in league position? Keep yourself warm at night because at least Nottingham Forest have had it worse?

"Arrogant" "Ungrateful". Give over. The fanbase of a club that's still in the top five most successful English clubs ever, despite a generation of borderline sabotage from an incompetent boardroom, doesn't have to whore out their gratitude to an owner who's taking the club backwards and hides from us behind his text messages to Jim White, regardless of how much money he's got or how many stadiums he promises to build. The protest isn't even against him or his stated aims for the club, its just to try and get him to communicate with the fans and make some basic but necessary changes to the running of the club.

Here's a more clear explanation:

To summarise though, walking out of a game once in response to the club delivering shite for 27 years is not a disproportionate response, and it really isn't feasible that people who don't support Everton and haven't lived this for that extent of time are at all well-placed to look down their nose and sit in judgement of fans who care about and follow the club making what's ultimately a pretty small protest at what they've seen.

... I was one of the Palace fans calling the Roy Out brigade ungrateful .

That explanation in that statement is far more clear to be honest. I think most of us were saying in the summer that there's no point having somebody with Marcel Brands reputation at the club as a Director of Football if hes not allowed to do his job. The owner does need to be more clear with fans and hiding behind Jim White (as the West Ham owners do to an extent) has always been a bit cringeworthy.

I think the situation has been a bit exaggerated to suggest the last 27 years have all been complete shite but the majority of the thought behind the walkout does make sense.

[Waylander]

2 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Again, it's not just about the lack of trophies. That's where the 27 is coming from and is the headline symptom of the club's decline.

Second, Chelsea, Forest, Hashtag FC, nobody cares. The protest is about Everton Football Club and how Everton fans feel about the club. There are other clubs doing better or worse, nobody cares. The fanbase has sat idly by and continued to sell out home and away for years and years. They're entitled to make a small protest to express their dissatisfaction without fans of other clubs giving us a seal of approval. Nobody has any right to tell you what are and aren't reasonable feelings about your football club.

If 1990s Chelsea or modern day Nottingham Forest or Derby County want to stage a walkout or a protest against their ownership then they can do what they want. I wouldn't be arsed at all and if I was interested, I might express confusion, but I'd never presume to claim they were out of order or ungrateful because other clubs have it worse (e.g. hey at least you don't support Bury or Wimbledon) because they have the right to want a higher bar for their club.

Not knocking your right to protest yet football is a business these days, perhaps not for the fans yet for the owners they can sell more or less to anyone and move on. They tend to not care for traditions unless they think it will cost them money.

The walkout may have the desired effect and realistically it is a fair protest and probably beats hundreds of fans outside the club with placards as the media will report an in match crowd movement more likely than those outside the club.

 

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Don’t be cowed by these southerners telling you Everton are nothing. Everton are a big club and will be a force once again. Keep going.

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by The Artful Dodger

[Honey Honey]

8 hours ago, RandoEFC said:

Again, it's not just about the lack of trophies. That's where the 27 is coming from and is the headline symptom of the club's decline.

Second, Chelsea, Forest, Hashtag FC, nobody cares. The protest is about Everton Football Club and how Everton fans feel about the club. There are other clubs doing better or worse, nobody cares. The fanbase has sat idly by and continued to sell out home and away for years and years. They're entitled to make a small protest to express their dissatisfaction without fans of other clubs giving us a seal of approval. Nobody has any right to tell you what are and aren't reasonable feelings about your football club.

If 1990s Chelsea or modern day Nottingham Forest or Derby County want to stage a walkout or a protest against their ownership then they can do what they want. I wouldn't be arsed at all and if I was interested, I might express confusion, but I'd never presume to claim they were out of order or ungrateful because other clubs have it worse (e.g. hey at least you don't support Bury or Wimbledon) because they have the right to want a higher bar for their club.

 

Think your first two sentences sum it up well. Truth is at any club all anyone wants is progress and to see their club going in the right direction. How that is expressed is neither here nor there, that it is expressed is what counts.

[The Palace Fan]

6 hours ago, The Artful Dodger said:

Don’t be cowed by these southerners telling you Everton are nothing. Everton are a big club and will be a force once again. Keep going.

 

Hey, glad you see you've managed to get electricity again back up North and are back on the forum 

[RandoEFC+]

Brands OUT reported by multiple sources.

Not sure he's the first one I'd get rid of or that he's had a fair crack of the whip but not going to lose much sleep over it either way.